Read this about dating

[Archivist]

I agree, but they often play the field in their 20s and well into their 30s. And then, they will marry a 22 year old. So a lot of women will end up wasting their fertile years on such an alpha male. Again, I am making a generalization - there may be many exceptions.


I doubt it. I bet I will be able to find solid evidence that while women 'marry up', men either don't care or marry down.

I think we have a problem.

Of course remember that education also factors into this. At one time higher ed was largely reserved for men. Most women got married after they finished high school. Now most women attend college, in many cases going on for masters or doctorates, so that adds 4-7 years. I think women actually outnumber men in college today.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

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[bèlla]

I doubt it. I bet I will be able to find solid evidence that while women 'marry up', men either don't care or marry down.

I think we have a problem.

Men often scale up in appearance. They’ll pursue someone beyond their reach.

Nevertheless...

The mating marketplace rewards five qualities more than others: class (born in a prominent family), wealth, appearance, position (social, political, and financial connections) and potential (well-regarded employment). In most instances, those in possession of these attributes select a suitor from amongst the group. They rarely go outside the fold.

As I noted...

Rather than one populace of available suitors you have three groups instead. The first is comprised of the five parties previously mentioned. The second includes those desiring entry into the first group. And the third includes every one else.

That’s the problem. If you’re pursuing a prospect in the second group who is determined to enter the first. It will be very difficult to change their mind. In the past, people considered potential to a larger degree than they do today. We want proof the person is moving in that direction. Because we’re marrying later, there’s greater scrutiny than before.

This is happening in Christian and secular circles. Many are holding out for something better across the board.

~Bella

 

[expos4ever]

Men often scale up in appearance. They’ll pursue someone beyond their reach.

I agree, but I think women do the same thing and, frankly, to a greater extent (see later in this post).

Nevertheless...

The mating marketplace rewards five qualities more than others: class (born in a prominent family), wealth, appearance, position (social, political, and financial connections) and potential (well-regarded employment). In most instances, those in possession of these attributes select a suitor from amongst the group. They rarely go outside the fold.

I think there are reasons to doubt this - people do go outside the fold and I politely suggest women do this more, actually much more, than men.

This is happening in Christian and secular circles. Many are holding out for something better across the board.

I agree. But, again, I suggest that you see this behaviour more from women than from men. Just as one example, I believe there was an experiment in which women were asked to rate the attractiveness of random photos of men as "above average" or "below average" - 85% of men were ranked below average. When men did the same exercise with women, they rated 50% as above average and 50% as below average. I will try to get the details.

 

[bèlla]

I think there are reasons to doubt this - people do go outside the fold and I politely suggest women do this more, actually much more, than men.

If we’re talking about the second group (scaling up), I’d agree women in certain situations are more likely to do so than men. Most don’t want to be the breadwinner or bring in the lion’s share of income.

I believe there was an experiment in which women were asked to rate the attractiveness of random photos of men as "above average" or "below average" - 85% of men were ranked below average. When men did the same exercise with women, they rated 50% as above average and 50% as below average. I will try to get the details.

I know the study you’re referring to.

This is an outgrowth of growing disparities. Once upon a time you understood certain groups possessed more assets. But it wasn’t in your face. Social media changed that. You’re seeing lifestyles up close. And its not a celebrity.

They’re living the good life and ordinary is unappealing. Simple has been redefined to minimalism or hygge. Not the idea most would have. We’re seeing the results of affluence and social class. Sharing heightened its appeal.

This isn’t the first go round. Women were up in arms over Martha Stewart. But now its socially acceptable to have more and demonstrate your prowess to the world. They’re the cool kids. We’ve developed a mental impression of average due to our exposure. That’s the person they’re turning down.

~Bella

 

[lovelife34]

I’ve encountered his type a time or ten.

However, its good to engage to hear different viewpoints so you’ll recognize them when you’re vetting. I don’t argue. I let them talk and file it away for future reference. It comes in handy.

~Bella

Exactly. Well, reading his blog taught me what red flags to look out for, so I'm happy about that. xD Yeah, it does come in handy. xD

 

[bèlla]

Exactly. Well, reading his blog taught me what red flags to look out for, so I'm happy about that. xD Yeah, it does come in handy. xD

He sounds familiar. Did he promote physical discipline or polygamous relationships?

~Bella

 

[tampasteve]

MOD HAT ON

A number of posts have been removed that were taking the OP off of track. Please keep on track and from goading other members.

MOD HAT OFF

 

[Junia]

I think these men don't exist anymore (based off my very limited personal experiences with "Christian" "men". I do know a few Christian guys who don't hookup/date on and off, but they just basically wait til they're 30 to start even thinking about marriage. They keep to themselves, which is good, but marriage is an afterthought to a lot of "Christian" men these days.

we humans do live longer these days, generally speaking. SO i guess maybe men don't feel the urge. i think these war vets would have faced death and been aware of their own mortality more so than many men today.

i dont believe anyone should get married unless they want to/need to and not before they ready. marriage is a lifelong commitment. it should be taken seriously.

 

[Junia]

It seemed to be the OP's concern, although it's not particularly mine. Although people not being able to marry before their fertility declines can be an issue.

yes that is one argument i can see for people not delaying. i guess because men's fertility does not decline the way women's does, may be anpther reason why men are not in so much hurry?

my poor sister just turned 40 and wants children. she been waiting a long time for the man God has for her to come along,. i always say whoever he is will be worth it and mature enough to take his commitment seriously

 

[lovelife34]

I have doubts that the situation was ever as described in the OP. Either way, I believe there are factors at play right now that would make it very difficult to follow the model set forth in the OP. As a man, what I am about to write may offend some women. Fair enough - please do respond as you see fit.

One of the unanticipated (I think) consequences of the dramatic improvement in women's access to good jobs (which is a great thing, in my view) is that they no longer need men for financial security (or such need has been dramatically attenuated). Here is the part that may offend: I believe that women are, by nature, drawn almost exclusively to alpha males - the good-looking, the tall, the powerful. And there are not enough to go around. But because women are not forced to 'settle' for economic support, they continue to all compete for, say, the top 20% of men. This produces all sorts of problems:

1. Most men find it extremely difficult to pair up with a woman.
2. The top 20% of men are having such a good time, they are not motivated to settle down.
3. Women, of course, find themselves without a partner as a result.

Again, this is just one aspect of a complex subject. And I acknowledge that these are only generalizations. Plus I am open to being challenged on any of this.

LOL, being attracted to alpha males isn't offensive. xD Men are attracted to beta females, it's just the way it is. Well, the thing is, all of this alpha/beta stuff isn't really set in stone. For example, there are submissive alpha males and dominant beta males. But a feminine woman will be attracted to a masculine man, and only masculine women will be attracted to feminine men.

"Good-looking" is so subjective, one man looks great to one girl, but looks average to another. "Tall" is also relative. If a girl is 5 feet, then even a 5 foot 6 guy can seem 'tall' to her. If a girl is 5 foot 6, then someone who's 6 feet may be 'tall.' I do think these things are complementary, though. Most guys want shorter girls, and most girls want taller guys.

Haha, who defines the top 20% of men, though?

 

[lovelife34]

I agree, but they often play the field in their 20s and well into their 30s. And then, they will marry a 22 year old. So a lot of women will end up wasting their fertile years on such an alpha male. Again, I am making a generalization - there may be many exceptions.


I doubt it. I bet I will be able to find solid evidence that while women 'marry up', men either don't care or marry down.

I think we have a problem.

Wait, are you talking about Christian men? Or secular men? Because no Christian man is 'playing the field' in his 20s and 30s xD He is busy in church and reading his Bible. xD Or just keeping to himself, mostly. I feel like you're thinking of secular men.

But men marry for looks, women marry for financial security. Most men don't look to women to provide them with financial security. xD (This is an oversimplication).

 

[lovelife34]

He sounds familiar. Did he promote physical discipline or polygamous relationships?

~Bella

No! He promotes racial segregation, financial abuse, and divorcing your wife if she sexually denies you. xD

 

[OldWiseGuy]

LOL, being attracted to alpha males isn't offensive. xD Men are attracted to beta females, it's just the way it is. Well, the thing is, all of this alpha/beta stuff isn't really set in stone. For example, there are submissive alpha males and dominant beta males. But a feminine woman will be attracted to a masculine man, and only masculine women will be attracted to feminine men.

"Good-looking" is so subjective, one man looks great to one girl, but looks average to another. "Tall" is also relative. If a girl is 5 feet, then even a 5 foot 6 guy can seem 'tall' to her. If a girl is 5 foot 6, then someone who's 6 feet may be 'tall.' I do think these things are complementary, though. Most guys want shorter girls, and most girls want taller guys.

Haha, who defines the top 20% of men, though?

Physical beauty is only part of the package. I have been turned on by women that other guys wouldn't look twice at. I have also known beautiful women that didn't appeal to me at all. Male/female attraction is a mystery.

 

[GodsGrace101]

In a way, I agree with Sketcher. I think we are all more aware of how badly things can go wrong in marriage, and more inclined to take our time and ensure we're making the right choice. Being the prettiest girl - or the most handsome guy - in the room isn't enough to inspire enough confidence to be vowing "for as long as we both shall live."

Not that I buy into "divorce has made everything bad" kind of narrative, because before divorce was easy many, many marriages were bad; but I think the problems were perhaps less obvious and visible.

To the man who loves her....
Every woman is the prettiest woman in the room.

This is all it means.....

 

[Junia]

No! He promotes racial segregation, financial abuse, and divorcing your wife if she sexually denies you. xD

is his name Nathan Solomon by any chance??? writes a blog called Biblical Gender Roles?

 

[bèlla]

For example, there are submissive alpha males and dominant beta males.

In the relational/sexual sphere that’s correct.

But a feminine woman will be attracted to a masculine man, and only masculine women will be attracted to feminine men.

I think that holds true as you reach the tail end of the scale. I’m very feminine and wouldn’t entertain an effeminate man. But I’m not attracted to rugged handsomeness. I prefer a dandy. But that’s an extreme in its own right.

No! He promotes racial segregation, financial abuse, and divorcing your wife if she sexually denies you. xD

Definitely one of his kinsmen. They swallowed the red pill.

~Bella

 

[lovelife34]

Physical beauty is only part of the package. I have been turned on by women that other guys wouldn't look twice at. I have also known beautiful women that didn't appeal to me at all. Male/female attraction is a mystery.

I agree! I remember though, being in elementary school, and the majority of the girls liked this one boy, and the majority of the guys liked one girl. xD Coincidentally, this one boy and one girl dated and were the school's most popular couple. xD

 

[Junia]

In the relational/sexual sphere that’s correct.



I think that holds true as you reach the tail end of the scale. I’m very feminine and wouldn’t entertain an effeminate man. But I’m not attracted to rugged handsomeness. I prefer a dandy. But that’s an extreme in its own right.



Definitely one of his kinsmen. They swallowed the red pill.

~Bella

I have known women who have been attracted to (not effeminate or gay men) but to men who are quite gentle and deffo not the alpha macho types. one things i have nboticed about these women. they are all women who have been hurt by men who have been more the yelling hitting "Macho" types. i have not noticed any of these women having particularly masculine charaacteristics (one of them, like me, has PCOS, a hormone imbalance meaning excess testosterone and yes physicaly she has some masculine traits (hirsute, long fingers, wide hands and feet) but emotionally and mentally, she seems quite feminine to me and not esepcially Alpha, though i would say she not a pushover) but they have all suffered abuse of various kinds from fathers, uncles, or ex boyfriends or husbands. so that could be a factor also. one of them is really delciate and feminine looking with a sweet soft voice, not at all an Alpha female type.

btw, i am NOT saying all macho aplha men are toxic. not all masculinity is toxic.

 

[lovelife34]

is his name Nathan Solomon by any chance??? writes a blog called Biblical Gender Roles?

His pen name is Larry Solomon, yup!