Rapture will happen..does it matter when?

[vinsight4u]

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[W2L]

It is cloud time when the two witnesses rise. The holy being
told John that they rise at the same hour as a great earthquake. 3rd woe/7th trumpet/6th seal
This holy being revealed the woe event to John before John
actually heard the 7th trumpet sound for that woe to begin.
This is why John noted it as - the third woe cometh quickly
----and not - a third woe cometh quickly.

I could be wrong but the great earthquake of Revelation reminds me of Hebrews 12 (found below), and God will shake things. Also, when scriptures say the elements will melt (2 Peter 3), this reminds me of Hebrews when it says God is a consuming fire


Hebrews 12:26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.”[a] 27 The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, 29 for our “God is a consuming fire.”

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]

 

[John Davidson]

There will be two resurrections - but over 1000 years apart.

7th trumpet - time to judge the dead
still have the same ole earth

wicked rise - after the old earth flees away
and no place is found for it

Except that is not what Jesus said. He said that the resurrection and judgment occurs on the last day. The scriptures testify that these will be universal including both the righteous and unrighteous.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Inkfingers]

my theory is that the trumpets and bowls coincide

Yes, I can see how you get there.

Bowl 2 kills all the sea, whilst trumpet 2 kills 1/3rd of it.
Bowl 3 kills the rivers, whlist trumpt 3 kills 1/3rd of rivers.
Bowl 4 scorches with the sun, whilst trumpet 4 renders 1/3rd of sun and moon dark.
Bowl 5 brings darkness and sores, whilst trumpet 5 is smoke from the pit and demons that torment but don't kill.
Bowl 6 has the Euphrates drying up and armies coming, whilst in trumpet 6 an army bound by the Euphrates is unleashed.
Bowl 7 has earthquakes, hail, Babylon destroyed and Armageddon, whilst trumpet 7 has God's Mystery complete, the Temple opened and the Kingdom coming.

but are focused on two different perspectives--global/universal, and the government of the beast. (1st trumpet and 1st bowl, 2nd trumpet and 2nd bowl, ... 7th trumpet and 7th bowl).

Well the bowls are wrath and only fall on the fallen so perhaps yes they are a view from a difference perspective; those in the body of Christ hear the trumpets but the rest see the bowls of wrath?

My other theory is that the trumpets and bowls are during the last year of the Tribulation.

I don't think that can be the case, as the witnesses get 1,260 days, followed by 3.5 days, and that seems to be after trumpet 4.

Because of Matthew 13, gathering the tares preceding the gathering of the wheat, I don't believe the gathering of the elect can occur before the bowls of wrath are poured out.

That may be a different event, occuring after the 1000 year reign when Satan is released and then kicked into the firey pit...

 

[John Davidson]

I'll have to look but it only speaks of the wicked being judged.

No. All places judgment is spoken of both the righteous and unrighteous are included.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[John Davidson]

None of the people in Matthew 25 are dead.

Incorrect. When Jesus returns the dead are raised and judged.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[W2L]

The day of the lord comes as a thief. The thief is the world I think, because it kills, steals and destroys, its treasure is moth eaten, stolen by thieves, and it rusts. Yet in heaven all things new, and we have died and been raised, our lives are hidden there, with Christ, in God. Anyway, have a blessed day everyone.


Revelation 12:12New International Version (NIV)
12
Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short.”

 

[vinsight4u]

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[John Davidson]

later the wicked rise and stand
before God-no just people are with them.

This is also incorrect. The scriptures say that we will ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

In Revelation 20:11-15 both the small and great are there. This is a picture of all men gathered. Everyone will stand before the great white throne.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[John Davidson]

Those in Matthew 25 are not dead people.

Matthew 25 is a picture of the second coming, resurrection, and judgment. The dead who are raised at that time are indeed included.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Inkfingers]

linkage

linkage

What would the two of you think of this alternative timeline (yes, I actually quite enjoy making these although formatting them on here is a bit of a pain) based on Lukes idea of convergent trumpets and bowls:

Rev 6:1-2 ___ 1st Seal _________________ White horse – conquest (false Christs? – Matt 24:5)
Rev 6:3-4 ___ 2nd Seal _________________ Red horse – War (Matt 24:6)
Rev 6:5-6 ___ 3rd Seal _________________ Black horse – Famine (Matt 24:7)
Rev 6:7-8 ___ 4th Seal _________________ Pale horse – Death Pestilence (Matt 24:7)
Rev 6:9-11 __ 5th Seal _________________ Martyrs wait bit longer. (Beginning of the trib & apostasy of Matt 24:9-12)
________________________ Rev 13 ______ Mark of beast and the Abomination of Desolation (Matthew 24:15)
____________Rev 8:1-7 ___ Rev 16:1-2 __ Trumpet 1 (hail and fire) and Bowl 1 (Sores on those who bear mark) - Matt 24:21
Rev 6:12-14 _ 6th Seal _________________ Begin of Earthquake, Red moon, Sackcloth sun, stars fall (Matt 24:29)
____________Rev 8:8-9 ___ Rev 16:3 ____ Trumpet 2 (Mountain of fire into sea) and Bowl 2 (death of the sea)
____________Rev 8:10-11 _ Rev 16:4 ____ Trumpet 3 (1/3rd dead in rivers, Wormwood) and Bowl 3 (dead rivers)
____________Rev 8:12 ____ Rev 16:8 ____ Trumpet 4 (1/3rd sun and moon dark) and Bowl 4 (suns heat)
Rev 6:16-17 __________________________ Face of lamb on throne (Jesus comes in clouds Matt 24:30)
Rev 7: 1-3 ___________________________ Elect of God sealed
____________Rev 9:1-11 ______________ Trumpet 5 (1st woe. Apollyon & smoke harm non-god-sealed)
____________Rev 16:10 _______________ Bowl 5 (Darkness and sores)
____________Rev 9:12-21 _____________ Trumpet 6 (2nd woe. Euphrates Army. Witnesses killed after 1260 days)
___________ Rev 16:12 ________________Bowl 6 (Euphrates dries, armies)
____________Rev 10/11 _______________ Trumpet 7 (Kingdom come.God's sealed gathered (Matt 24:31))
____________Rev 16:17 _______________ Bowl 7 (3rd Woe, Quake, Hail, Babylon destroyed, Armageddon)
Rev 8 ______ 7th seal _________________ Silence, then angels give a detailed report of the trumpet events
Rev 20 ______________________________ 1000 years reign,
Rev 20 ______________________________ After 1000 years Gog-Magog war, Satan final defeat
Rev 21+ _____________________________ White Throne Judgement, Tares into fire, New Jerusalem