Rapture will happen..does it matter when?

[Luke17:37]

Just been thinking on your theory on trumpets and bowls going together and wondering if the trumpets are truncated warnings of the bowls to come (which may occur close to each other or in two distinct groups of trumpets than bowls). Going to ponder this some more....

I wish I could draw it nicely, but I think of it like two video cameras recording the same event from different angles and focal lengths. The trumpets see a wide angle shot (the whole earth/universe), and the bowls are zoomed in at the effects on the kingdom of the beast.

For example, suppose the government of the beast is headquartered in New York City. 1/3 of the earth centered around New York could be affected by the bowls (if they are spatially oriented). If so, that would virtually destroy the food supply in that whole region. They might be able to import food and water from Europe and Asia, but if the bowls 2-4, and even 5 (the darkness) had global coverage, it's hard to imagine how difficult it would be for anyone to survive very long. If Christians, recognizing Babylon the Great, obeyed the command to "come out of her, my people" (Revelation 18:4), the bowls of wrath would mostly afflict people with the mark of the beast (and their young children).

 

[Inkfingers]

I wish I could draw it nicely, but I think of it like two video cameras recording the same event from different angles and focal lengths. The trumpets see a wide angle shot (the whole earth/universe), and the bowls are zoomed in at the effects on the kingdom of the beast.

For example, suppose the government of the beast is headquartered in New York City. 1/3 of the earth centered around New York could be affected by the bowls (if they are spatially oriented). If so, that would virtually destroy the food supply in that whole region. They might be able to import food and water from Europe and Asia, but if the bowls 2-4, and even 5 (the darkness) had global coverage, it's hard to imagine how difficult it would be for anyone to survive very long. If Christians, recognizing Babylon the Great, obeyed the command to "come out of her, my people" (Revelation 18:4), the bowls of wrath would mostly afflict people with the mark of the beast (and their young children).

I'm wondering more on whether the Trumpets are forerunners giving a 1/3rd taste of what is to come (most are a toned-down version of a bowl of wrath). There certainly seems to be a connection between each Trumpet and each Bowl, but I'm wondering whether Trumpets are a last warning taster of what is to come?

 

[Luke17:37]

I'm wondering more on whether the Trumpets are forerunners giving a 1/3rd taste of what is to come (most are a toned-down version of a bowl of wrath). There certainly seems to be a connection between each Trumpet and each Bowl, but I'm wondering whether Trumpets are a last warning taster of what is to come?

Perhaps, but if that would be the case, the bowls would have to be super short or no one could survive. And since a person can come out of Babylon and not share in her plagues, the bowls of wrath can't truly be global.

 

[Inkfingers]

Perhaps, but if that would be the case, the bowls would have to be super short or no one could survive. And since a person can come out of Babylon and not share in her plagues, the bowls of wrath can't truly be global.

Well, most of the bowls don't kill people.
The give sores, killed the sea, kill the rivers, scorch the people, and then cover the world with darkness and more sores.

They don't seem to start killing people until bowl 6 (when the Armies come from the Euphrates) and bowl 7 (when Babylon gets its final comeuppance).

 

[Luke17:37]

Well, most of the bowls don't kill people.
The give sores, killed the sea, kill the rivers, scorch the people, and then cover the world with darkness and more sores.

They don't seem to start killing people until bowl 6 (when the Armies come from the Euphrates) and bowl 7 (when Babylon gets its final comeuppance).

Well, the fish would be dead in the sea and the fresh waters become blood (or like blood). These, in addition to the heat and darkness, will surely affect food supply.

 

[Inkfingers]

Well, the fish would be dead in the sea and the fresh waters become blood (or like blood). These, in addition to the heat and darkness, will surely affect food supply.

Undoubtedly, yes, but if all food supplies dried up now, so that we only had the current harvest and what is stored in tins etc it would last a little while at least. Plus the livestock could all be slaughtered and eaten. And then starvation would take 3 weeks (presuming no canibalism).

I don't doubt that bowls will kill some, but it will take a while to get there and only at the end is mass slaughter truly unleashed.

 

[Luke17:37]

Undoubtedly, yes, but if all food supplies dried up now, so that we only had the current harvest and what is stored in tins etc it would last a little while at least. Plus the livestock could all be slaughtered and eaten. And then starvation would take 3 weeks (presuming no canibalism).

I don't doubt that bowls will kill some, but it will take a while to get there and only at the end is mass slaughter truly unleashed.

Yeah; in the days of the fifth trumpet, people will seek death but death will flee from them.

Anyway, I'm probably going to keep my theory unless I live long enough to see that it's wrong. It really makes sense to me. Only God knows, though.

 

[Deadworm]

A few years ago, a man described another man's tardiness to my minister uncle, saying, "He's as slow as the Second Coming of Christ." Another guy handed me a book called "Armageddon:" it surveyed all the unfulfilled predictions of an imminent Second Coming from the dawn of Pentecostalism on, including dogmatic declarations that Mussolini, and then others were the Anti-Christ. The more false excitement that is generated about imminent expectation, the greater the disillusionment of the younger generation who hear prophecy buffs make buffoons of themselves and biblical prophecy by pinpointing the imminence of Christ's Second Coming. When I was a teenager, my own fledgling faith was seriously damaged by such rash pontifications. The Bible prophecy movement sets Christianity up for ridicule when key dates come and go without major incident.

Another problem is the prophetic focus on the formation of modern Israel in 1948 and then Israel's taking control of all Jerusalem in 1967. These monumental events have established "that generation" as the generation of the Second Coming for many Christians. But sadly, that generation (of 40 years) has come and gone without any such fulfillment. If Jesus fails to come in the next 50 years, will anyone ever again take Bible prophecy seriously?

Catholics face a similar potential faith crisis sparked by the 10 signs of Medjegorje visionaries. The apocalyptic signs were revealed in 1982 and the Marija (now 50) has always claimed that she will reveal the Virgin's precise dates for the fulfillment of each sign 3 days in advance. If she dies without identifying any of these dates, the Marian apparitions there that are so revered by Catholics will be exposed as a fraud.

 

[Psalm3704]

Another problem is the prophetic focus on the formation of modern Israel in 1948 and then Israel's taking control of all Jerusalem in 1967. These monumental events have established "that generation" as the generation of the Second Coming for many Christians. But sadly, that generation (of 40 years) has come and gone without any such fulfillment. If Jesus fails to come in the next 50 years, will anyone ever again take Bible prophecy seriously?

Try a different generation. The correct generation Jesus spoke of can also be found in Jeremiah 25 and Zechariah 1.







.

 

[Douggg]

Another problem is the prophetic focus on the formation of modern Israel in 1948 and then Israel's taking control of all Jerusalem in 1967. These monumental events have established "that generation" as the generation of the Second Coming for many Christians. But sadly, that generation (of 40 years) has come and gone without any such fulfillment. If Jesus fails to come in the next 50 years, will anyone ever again take Bible prophecy seriously?

A generation is not 40 years. The children of Israel who did not enter the promised land because they were afraid of the reports of giants in the land spent 40 years wandering in wilderness until that generation died off - but they were already adults to start with, so they would have been in their late sixties and seventies.

A generation in Psalms 90 is 70 years.

1967+70 = 2037 no later than that Jesus will return.

Instead of woe, woe, poor pitiful me.... someone was wrong about the timing of the Second Coming.... woe, woe, poor pitiful me.... walk with the King.... you can't go wrong. Stop your whining, walk with the King.

 

[Luke17:37]

A few years ago, a man described another man's tardiness to my minister uncle, saying, "He's as slow as the Second Coming of Christ." Another guy handed me a book called "Armageddon:" it surveyed all the unfulfilled predictions of an imminent Second Coming from the dawn of Pentecostalism on, including dogmatic declarations that Mussolini, and then others were the Anti-Christ. The more false excitement that is generated about imminent expectation, the greater the disillusionment of the younger generation who hear prophecy buffs make buffoons of themselves and biblical prophecy by pinpointing the imminence of Christ's Second Coming. When I was a teenager, my own fledgling faith was seriously damaged by such rash pontifications. The Bible prophecy movement sets Christianity up for ridicule when key dates come and go without major incident.

Another problem is the prophetic focus on the formation of modern Israel in 1948 and then Israel's taking control of all Jerusalem in 1967. These monumental events have established "that generation" as the generation of the Second Coming for many Christians. But sadly, that generation (of 40 years) has come and gone without any such fulfillment. If Jesus fails to come in the next 50 years, will anyone ever again take Bible prophecy seriously?

Catholics face a similar potential faith crisis sparked by the 10 signs of Medjegorje visionaries. The apocalyptic signs were revealed in 1982 and the Marija (now 50) has always claimed that she will reveal the Virgin's precise dates for the fulfillment of each sign 3 days in advance. If she dies without identifying any of these dates, the Marian apparitions there that are so revered by Catholics will be exposed as a fraud.

I'm sorry about how that experience affected you. I'm glad your faith survived.

The imminence (at any moment... could be today, tomorrow, this year...) of Jesus' return is a myth. There will be signs (e.g., Matthew 24:4-28, Revelation 6-18) beforehand. Until we see all these things fulfilled, He's not coming imminently.

The imminence idea comes from the pre-tribulation rapture theory, which is not found in Scripture and isn't supported by it. However, that's the most popular teaching in the United States. This is a very sad reality, I think, and reflective of 2 Timothy 4:3-4.

1 Thessalonians 5:4-9 and Hebrews 10:24-25 tell us that Christians who are keeping close watch over their lives and doctrine will be able to recognize the signs that Jesus' return is near.

Luke 21:8
8 And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them.’

 

[Straightshot]

"The imminence (at any moment... could be today, tomorrow, this year...) of Jesus' return is a myth."


Someone is lying to you .... the Lord Himself tells that no one can know His time to intervene

 

[Job8]

But when we look at Revelation we see that there would be things to come before and signs that would point us to His return.

One of the biggest mistakes people make is to confuse the Rapture with the Second Coming. They are separated by at least 7 years (if not more). There will be no signs per se preceding the Rapture, since it has always been imminent. But there will be signs preceding the Second Coming of Christ "with power and great glory". Indeed, there will be UNIVERSAL MOURNING at that event (Rev 1:7).

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and theyalso which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[Job8]

"The imminence (at any moment... could be today, tomorrow, this year...) of Jesus' return is a myth." Someone is lying to you .... the Lord Himself tells that no one can know His time to intervene

And that is precisely why it is called "imminence". You just contradicted yourself. No one is lying to anyone since Christ Himself said that He could come for the Church at any time.

 

[Straightshot]

"And that is precisely why it is called "imminence". You just contradicted yourself"


I never contradict myself son

The poster I have responded to called the Lord's unrevealed dating a myth

His intent to keep any from knowing is not a myth

And there will be no signs or warnings given before .... all of the signs will materialize within the scope of His tribulation at the onset and during the period

 

[iamlamad]

I wish I could draw it nicely, but I think of it like two video cameras recording the same event from different angles and focal lengths. The trumpets see a wide angle shot (the whole earth/universe), and the bowls are zoomed in at the effects on the kingdom of the beast.

For example, suppose the government of the beast is headquartered in New York City. 1/3 of the earth centered around New York could be affected by the bowls (if they are spatially oriented). If so, that would virtually destroy the food supply in that whole region. They might be able to import food and water from Europe and Asia, but if the bowls 2-4, and even 5 (the darkness) had global coverage, it's hard to imagine how difficult it would be for anyone to survive very long. If Christians, recognizing Babylon the Great, obeyed the command to "come out of her, my people" (Revelation 18:4), the bowls of wrath would mostly afflict people with the mark of the beast (and their young children).

This sounds good in theory, but the truth is, the trumpets are sounded in the first half of the 70th week, while the vials come late in the second half of the week.

 

[iamlamad]

"And that is precisely why it is called "imminence". You just contradicted yourself"


I never contradict myself son

The poster I have responded to called the Lord's unrevealed dating a myth

His intent to keep any from knowing is not a myth

And there will be no signs or warnings given before .... all of the signs will materialize within the scope of His tribulation at the onset and during the period

There will be a HUGE sign before the 70th week begins: perhaps 50% of the world's population will suddenly disappear! (I am counting those in Christ along with all children under the age of accountability.) Then there will be the world's first world wide earthquake and a blood red moon, along with signs in the sky.

By the way, never is a very long time. Do you wish to rethink that statement?

 

[iamlamad]

And that is precisely why it is called "imminence". You just contradicted yourself. No one is lying to anyone since Christ Himself said that He could come for the Church at any time.

Those that think otherwise will simply NOT be watching for His coming, and will probably be left behind. Those IN Christ should be as it were sitting on the edge of their seat in anticipation!

 

[iamlamad]

One of the biggest mistakes people make is to confuse the Rapture with the Second Coming. They are separated by at least 7 years (if not more). There will be no signs per se preceding the Rapture, since it has always been imminent. But there will be signs preceding the Second Coming of Christ "with power and great glory". Indeed, there will be UNIVERSAL MOURNING at that event (Rev 1:7).

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and theyalso which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Good post, Job8! TRUTH!

 

[iamlamad]

I'm sorry about how that experience affected you. I'm glad your faith survived.

The imminence (at any moment... could be today, tomorrow, this year...) of Jesus' return is a myth. There will be signs (e.g., Matthew 24:4-28, Revelation 6-18) beforehand. Until we see all these things fulfilled, He's not coming imminently.

The imminence idea comes from the pre-tribulation rapture theory, which is not found in Scripture and isn't supported by it. However, that's the most popular teaching in the United States. This is a very sad reality, I think, and reflective of 2 Timothy 4:3-4.

1 Thessalonians 5:4-9 and Hebrews 10:24-25 tell us that Christians who are keeping close watch over their lives and doctrine will be able to recognize the signs that Jesus' return is near.

Luke 21:8
8 And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them.’

The imminence idea comes from the pre-tribulation rapture theory, which is not found in Scripture and isn't supported by it.

OF COURSE it is found in Scripture! What you mean is, you have not found it.