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Rapture False doctrine

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by JM, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

    "May be counted worthy" is a later Greek variant in the Textus Receptus of the KJV/NKJV, kataxiwthete. The earlier reading (and better attested) in the UBS Greek text is katixchusete, meaning "you prevail".

    The latter reading is in harmony with the context as Christians are to be strong enough to not yield to temptation and become slack in our watching. We are not to give in to the worldly ways of Luke 21:34.

    According to Arndt & Gingrich's Greek lexicon, the Greek word translated "escape" - ekpheugw - means 'run away, seek safety in flight (Acts 19:16) or "escape" literally (as in Acts 16:27) and figuratively (1 Thess 5:3; Heb 2:3; 12:25). It "has the force of coming unscathed through the terrible events of the last days and not giving up the faith in view of them" (I Howard Marshall 1978. The Gospel of Luke: A Commentary on the Greek Text. Eerdmans, p. 783).

    The preposition ek that is associated with ekpheugw, has the meaning of "out of the midst of" and not as the preposition eis, "from the side of".

    To make this apply to the Rapture, in my view, is straining at a gnat. Not one of the 7 commentaries I have just read in my library suggests anything to do with the Rapture.

    But the context is dealing with watching ourselves so that we will not be burdened with worldly affairs (dissipation and drunkenness, etc., 21:34). Believers are to stay awake, praying that they will have the strength to escape these things and finally stand before the Son of Man, strong in faith (to be assessed?).

  2. SwordoftheLord

    SwordoftheLord Defender of the Faith

    They explain them using the Bible...

    Where did Elijah go?
    This has been the perplexing problem to so many. He did not ascend to the throne of God, because Jesus said so! Also, notice in 2 Kings 3 and 5 that the sons of the prophets knew Elijah would be taken away by God in advance. They believed that Elijah was going to be taken to another location, which is why they were fearful that the Spirit of God might have dropped him "upon some mountain, or into some valley" (2 Kings 2:16). Elisha knew that God would preserve Elijah from falling, but at their insistence he permitted men to go in search for him, to no avail. And God did not say that Elijah was to die at that time. If he were, Elisha could have assumed his new office without the removal of Elijah, for we know that Elisha died in office after fulfilling his duty (2 Kings 13:14).

    The new king of Israel was another son of Ahab, Jehoram, or Joram as he is sometimes called. The beginning of his reign marked the year of his removal of Elijah (2 Kings 1:18 and 3:1). During this king's reign, Elisha was the recognized prophet of God (2 Kings 3:11). In the fifth year of Joram king of Israel, the son of the king of Judah began to reign along with his father in Judah (2 Kings 8:16). His name also was Jehoram. The first thing he did to establish his kingdom rule was to put his relatives to the sword lest they should claim the throne from him (2 Chronicles 21:4). For nearly six years he followed the ways of the nations about him and did evil in the sight of God.

    Almost ten years had now expired since Elijah was taken from the people. After this wicked rule by the Jewish king, God chose Elijah to write a letter and have it sent to the king! The contents of the letter are found in 2 Chronicles 21:12-15. From the wording of this letter, it is clear that Elijah wrote it after these events had occurred, for he speaks of them as past events, and of the diseases as future, Two years after the king became diseased the king died, having reigned only eight short years (2 Chronicles 21:18-20).

    This proves that the letter was written about ten years after Elijah had been taken to another location by the whirlwind. God used Elijah to convey the message because he was the prophet of God in the days of the present king's father, and the son was not going in the ways of his obedient father, Jehosophat. This letter proves that he was alive someplace else. The Bible does not reveal how much longer Elijah lived after writing the letter, but it does say that it is appointed for all men to die once (Romans 5:12,14, 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, Hebrews 9:27).

    A similar incident to Elijah's took place in Acts 8:39,40. Phillip was caught up into the first heaven, as Elijah was, and was transported to another location approximately 30 miles away. Another similar incident happened to Ezekiel, in which the spirit took him away (Ezekiel 3:12). The spirit lifted him up "between the earth and the heaven" and brought him "to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate" (Ezekiel 8:3). Afterwards, the spirit took him up to Chaldea (Ezekiel 11:24).

    Elijah may not have been found because he was transported further away than the fifty men searched (2 Kings 2:17). And, as far as being taken into heaven where God's throne is, we can know that neither Elijah nor Enoch nor Moses were taken into God's heavenly abode, because Jesus said, while he was on this earth, that "no man hath ascendeth to heaven" (John 3:13), and "No man hath seen God at any time" (John 1:18).

    Some people believe that Enoch did not die but was taken directly to heaven where God is. But, Enoch eventually died, as all humans die. How can we know? The apostle Paul mentioned the circumstances associated with Enoch in Hebrews 11:5, along with other men of faith, and then stated: "These all died in faith, not having received the promises" (Hebrews 11:13). Yes, Enoch died, and he did not receive the promise of heaven (verse 16) at the time the book of Hebrews was written.

    Based on Hebrews 11:5,13 and Jesus’ statement in John.3:13, "no man hath ascended up to heaven", how are we to understand the account of Enoch? Genesis 5:21-24 says that Enoch's days, alive on Earth, ended at 365 years old. The question is, did he die, was he taken to heaven alive, or was he transported to another location on Earth?

    Let us examine the bold phrase in Genesis 5:24, where it says, "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him" and compare the same Hebrew phrase in:

    Psalms 37:36, "Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found."
    Psalms 39:13, "O spare me, that I may recover strength, before I go hence, and be no more."

    The Hebrew for the phrases in bold are the same Hebrew as Genesis 5:24. As in the Psalms, the phrase means the person "passed away" or would eventually die. Let’s look at the same phrase in the book of Genesis:

    Genesis 42:13, "And they said, Thy servants are twelve brethren, the sons of one man in the land of Canaan; and, behold, the youngest is this day with our father, and one is not." This was spoken by his brothers of Joseph. What’d they mean by "is not"?
    Genesis 44:20, "And we said unto my lord, We have a father, an old man, and a child of his old age, a little one; and his brother is dead, and he alone is left of his mother, and his father loveth him." Here, the brothers recount their previous discussion about Joseph with Pharaoh. When they first said, "and one is not," they meant Joseph "is dead."

    Matthew 2:18, "In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not." Where were Rachel's children? Dead.

    Hebrews 11:5, "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him:" Does the phrase that says Enoch "should not see death" mean Enoch never died? Hebrews 11:13, "These all died [including Enoch] in faith." But not only that, verse 13 goes on to say that they did not receive the promises. One of the promises was a heavenly country (verse 16). If Enoch were in heaven, wouldn't he have received that promise?

    Psalms 89:48, "What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah." Why would this Psalmist ask such a question concerning physical death if he believed Enoch did not see a physical death? The fact is, the Psalmist believed Enoch was in the grave and therefore asked this question.

    So what does the phrase "should not see death" mean? Notice it is not in the present tense, that he "did not see" death, but that he "should not see death." John 8:51, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death" [see also John 11:26]. This phrase must mean "the second death," since all the Apostles kept Jesus’ sayings and yet died the first death.

    Based on Hebrews 9:27, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" and Hebrews 11:13, "These all died in faith, not having received the promises," we must conclude that Enoch died the first death. To believe Enoch did not die is to deny the plain word of many other scriptures as well. For example, Romans 5:12, "...so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" and Romans 5:14, "...death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned." Are we to believe that Enoch did not sin? Are we to believe that a man who was not yet cleansed of sin by the blood of Jesus could enter heaven and dwell in God's presence?

    Enoch’s translation
    But what about his translation in Hebrews 11:5? Does that mean he didn’t die? That’s what most people carelessly assume without proof. The Bible does not say that Enoch went to heaven when he was translated. Instead, it says he "was not found." According to Strong's, Thayer's and Bullinger's Greek Lexicons, "translate" means "to put or place in another place, to transport, to transfer." Nowhere in the Scripture does ‘translate’ mean to make immortal!

    The same Greek word is rendered "carried over" in Acts 7:16 where Jacob's body was ‘translated’ or ‘transported’ to Sychem, where he was buried! The Scriptures say Jacob was translated to the place of burial! God took Enoch and buried him somewhere so as not to be found, just as he did with the body of Moses in Deuteronomy 34:6. No man knows where Moses' or Enoch’s grave is. God hid them for reasons known only to Him.

    Notice another proof that ‘translate’ does not mean to make immortal. Paul wrote that the Father "hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son" (Colossians 1:13). The apostle Paul says that he was already translated, even though he was still physically alive! Although he was once part of the darkness of this world, he was translated, removed from darkness, into the light of the kingdom of God while he was physically alive!

    At the age of 65, Enoch had a son named Methuselah. But how long did Enoch walk with God?

    Genesis 5:22, "And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters."
    So, Enoch followed God’s ways for three hundred years. Notice that the Scripture does not record that Enoch is still walking with God. It says that Enoch WALKED with God for three hundred years, and not one year more. Why? Because "all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years" (Genesis 5:23). Paul says, in Colossians 1:10, "That ye might walk worthy of the Lord." Enoch walked with God and pleased God. This is what Genesis 5:22,24 means when it says "Enoch walked with God."

    1 Corinthians 15:20-23 says that all die and all shall be resurrected, but Messiah must be first in the order. Enoch could not possibly have preceded him, especially if he were still flesh and blood as it says in verses 49-52.

    Source: http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/enoch.html

    Just saying........Funny how the Elijah/Enoch being raptured is still held by many today.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
  3. Zeek

    Zeek Follower of Messiah, Israel advocate and Zionist

    I have never believed in the rapture(pre-trib)...at best just held some of the teachings on the back-burner as I tried to weigh up things for myself.

    It is not a faith issue...that is true.

    Does it really matter? Well many Christians have been given a false sense of security IMO, that detracts from holy living and being prepared for the days of tribulations when many peoples faith will be severely shaken, and it is my belief that many of us in the West have a very soft spongy sort of fluffy faith that will not stand in the days of adversity unless we work out our salvation with fear and trembling, and understand that G-d is with us to the ends of the earth, even unto death, and that far from being a guarantee that we will escape the terrible things that lie ahead, I think that being Christians will put us in the fore-front of extrem persecution...and if you don't believe it, just consider what has been happening to Christians all over the place recently, especially in places like the Sudan.

    Here is an audio some of you might find interesting.

  4. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member


    Why have you plagiarised this material by not giving credit to your sources. I have found some of this material in these URLs:

    Elijah, Enoch, and Moses

    TRUTH BE TOLD: there is some thing wrong with islam


  5. SwordoftheLord

    SwordoftheLord Defender of the Faith

    Also how do you know I did not write them? Just wondering, because quoting your own work isnt plagarisism:)

    Lucky for you your right this time :):):) I though I posted the link as the source. My apologies:) need to edit that lol...I posted from my phone, so It was rough to do.
  6. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

    In your original plagiarised post, it was a mighty long post to do from your phone!:D