No worries. It happens. Everyone including myself have gotten mislead at one time or another.
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Rapture Before Wrath
- Thread starter bibletruth469
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No worries. It happens. Everyone including myself have gotten mislead at one time or another.
Riberra
Well-Known Member
The disciples were looking at Jesus and asking Him when will be the day of Jesus Second coming and of the end of the world...
As clearly stated in:
Matthew 24:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
The time frame Jesus was addressing is that He will return immediately after the tribulation of those days...
Matthew 24:29-31
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
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As to that "two in the field," study out those "gnashing of teeth" passages.
The passage is 2nd Advent followed by His Kingdom on Earth material, Acts 3:20-24.
Only Paul teaches the Pre- Trib Rapture, as a verse by verse comparison of Romans 5 and 1 Thess. 5, will show. Romans 5 being WHY 1 Thess. 4 AND 5 assert what they do.
In the Spirit of Acts 17: 11, and 12
I have a laptop in my workshop. While I was working today I listened to several YouTube messages on Mid-Acts Dispensationalism. I lost track of how many times I heard the phrase "Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth" and the phrase "our Apostle Paul" as well as the "mystery only revealed to Paul".
Is it your understanding that the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are two totally different things?
They also seemed to indicate that the Church's place is in heaven while Israel's place is on earth.
Is this your understanding also?
Do we stay in heaven at Christ's 2nd Coming according to Mid-Acts Dispensationalism?
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No, again you're wrong.
The disciples never asked Jesus in Luke 17. The Pharisees ask Him the question, not His disciples. In order to come up with a rebuttal, you needed to change the subject from Luke 17 to Matthew 24.
This clearly shows how bruised your ego is having to pull in a different scripture into this debate just so you can form a rebuttal.
Now back to Luke 17:22. Jesus said to His disciples, "you will not see the Son of Man." It's impossible Jesus was talking about 2000 years ago if they just glanced at Him once.
Luke 17:22 (NKJV)
Then He said to the disciples, The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.
And the 2nd evidence, the Olivet Discourse is about the 2nd Coming.
Totally irrelevant topic from Luke 17:22.
.
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Bab, personally, I view the phrase "rightly dividing the word of truth" as a reference to laying out aright one's truth based word to others, as that is what Paul is relating to Timothy as to Paul's desire that Timothy put his audience "in remembrance" of "things."
At the same time, Paul communicates his point to Timothy, there, in 2 Timothy 2, by way of a CONTRAST TO, or DISTINCTION TO that - BOTH by his use of the word BUT - in the very next, CONTRASTING passage, BUT ALSO by way of his relating to Timothy the ERROR CONCERNING THE TRUTH of two individuals he mentions there, who had apparantly failed as to WHERE as to A TIME LINE of some sort they had placed "the resurrection" obviously YET FUTURE from Paul and Timothy, as PAST ALREADY."
In other words, Paul, could not but have to DIVIDE BETWEEN those issues PRIOR TO AS WELL AS THIS SIDE OF the Mystery revealed to and through him by Christ, Col. 1:23-29.
The brother was constantly using phrasing like BUT NOW, etc., as had Christ, given the DISTINCTION between "the Law and the Prophets" and His own "BUT I say unto you.." as a transition was "at hand" then too.
As for our constant emphasis of Paul's ministry, consider that Christ had consistently emphasized Moses - "what did Moses say... write... command." Its that same kind of emphasis as Paul is to the Body what Moses is to Israel.
Regarding kingdom of heaven/ of God phrasing, I see them as interchangeable terms, at the same time that I recognize their DISTINCTION in meaning as to the will of God ON EARTH in CONTRAST TO His will IN HEAVEN.
Lastly, we see the Body as comprised of both Jew and Gentile as fellow-heirs WITH Christ over His HEAVENLY realm - the will of Heaven IN Heaven.
We see those Jews saved into the Body as having begun AFTER Israel was concluded UNcircumcision, their only salvation then/now through Paul's Christ given "my gospel... OF the UNcircumcision" that both said Jews and Gentiles THIS SIDE of disobedient and gainsaying Israel now had to avail itself of.
We make a DISTINCTION BETWEEN that AND the election of Israel - they of the circumcision which had believed BEFORE disobedient Israel was cut off from THEIR "gospel OF the Circumcision," AT THE SAME TIME that God sealed that election of that nation unto another day - that day of "how much more their fullness."
So, yes, but we mean God's TWO-FOLD Purpose - His Prophesied Purpose as to the election of that nation as His Royal Priesthood over the nations of this EARTH one day, Isaiah 2:1-5; 61: 1-6 and His Kept Secret Purpose as to A New Creature: the Body of Christ; His co-heirs with Him, as His fullness of Him that filleth all in all those Heavenly Places, Eph. 1:3; 19-23.
Its the finer DISTINCTIONS in these things that have you scratching your head
"For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the WHOLE family IN Heaven AND Earth is named," Eph. 3: 14, 15.
At the same time, Paul communicates his point to Timothy, there, in 2 Timothy 2, by way of a CONTRAST TO, or DISTINCTION TO that - BOTH by his use of the word BUT - in the very next, CONTRASTING passage, BUT ALSO by way of his relating to Timothy the ERROR CONCERNING THE TRUTH of two individuals he mentions there, who had apparantly failed as to WHERE as to A TIME LINE of some sort they had placed "the resurrection" obviously YET FUTURE from Paul and Timothy, as PAST ALREADY."
In other words, Paul, could not but have to DIVIDE BETWEEN those issues PRIOR TO AS WELL AS THIS SIDE OF the Mystery revealed to and through him by Christ, Col. 1:23-29.
The brother was constantly using phrasing like BUT NOW, etc., as had Christ, given the DISTINCTION between "the Law and the Prophets" and His own "BUT I say unto you.." as a transition was "at hand" then too.
As for our constant emphasis of Paul's ministry, consider that Christ had consistently emphasized Moses - "what did Moses say... write... command." Its that same kind of emphasis as Paul is to the Body what Moses is to Israel.
Regarding kingdom of heaven/ of God phrasing, I see them as interchangeable terms, at the same time that I recognize their DISTINCTION in meaning as to the will of God ON EARTH in CONTRAST TO His will IN HEAVEN.
Lastly, we see the Body as comprised of both Jew and Gentile as fellow-heirs WITH Christ over His HEAVENLY realm - the will of Heaven IN Heaven.
We see those Jews saved into the Body as having begun AFTER Israel was concluded UNcircumcision, their only salvation then/now through Paul's Christ given "my gospel... OF the UNcircumcision" that both said Jews and Gentiles THIS SIDE of disobedient and gainsaying Israel now had to avail itself of.
We make a DISTINCTION BETWEEN that AND the election of Israel - they of the circumcision which had believed BEFORE disobedient Israel was cut off from THEIR "gospel OF the Circumcision," AT THE SAME TIME that God sealed that election of that nation unto another day - that day of "how much more their fullness."
So, yes, but we mean God's TWO-FOLD Purpose - His Prophesied Purpose as to the election of that nation as His Royal Priesthood over the nations of this EARTH one day, Isaiah 2:1-5; 61: 1-6 and His Kept Secret Purpose as to A New Creature: the Body of Christ; His co-heirs with Him, as His fullness of Him that filleth all in all those Heavenly Places, Eph. 1:3; 19-23.
Its the finer DISTINCTIONS in these things that have you scratching your head
"For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the WHOLE family IN Heaven AND Earth is named," Eph. 3: 14, 15.
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B
Bible2
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That's right.
For during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, believers will have to "watch" (stay awake, spiritually) for Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:42-43, Matthew 25:13, Luke 21:36), which Jesus has just finished saying won't occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). For if a believer isn't "watching" (staying awake, spiritually) for the 2nd coming, it will take that believer by surprise (cf. the if principle of Revelation 3:3b). And that believer will lose his or her salvation at that time because of such things as unrepentant sin (Luke 12:45-46, Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27), unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b).
Also, even when believers know the truth that Jesus' return won't occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31), they still need to live each day knowing that any of them could die at any time (Luke 12:20, James 4:14).
Note that Luke 21:36 doesn't require a pre-tribulation rapture. For some in the church will escape all of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 by dying before it begins (Isaiah 57:1). And others in the church will escape all of it by being physically protected on the earth during it (Revelation 12:14-16, Psalms 91). Those who will escape it by dying before it begins will stand before the Lord in heaven (Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8). And those who will escape it by being miraculously protected on the earth during it will stand before the Lord in the sky at the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:17), which won't occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
Note that the 10-virgins parable (Matthew 25:1-13) shows that the marriage of the church to Jesus won't occur until his 2nd coming (Matthew 25:10), which Jesus had just finished saying won't occur until "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), just like Revelation 19:7 shows that the marriage won't occur until after the (never fulfilled) tribulation, shown in Revelation chapters 6 to 18. The parable's extra oil (Matthew 25:4,9b) could represent the continued good works of believers, by which they will be able to pass the judgment of the church by Jesus (Matthew 25:19-30, Romans 2:6-8) and enter the marriage of the church to Jesus at his 2nd coming (Matthew 25:10, Revelation 19:7-21).
The marriage supper (Revelation 19:9) won't have yet begun by the time of Revelation 19, which won't begin until after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (cf. Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). For regarding the church, the marriage supper will be a literal feast in the earthly Jerusalem after the resurrection and marriage of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54). While the church will enjoy a feast "of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined" (Isaiah 25:6), the birds will feast on the corpses of the world's armies defeated by Jesus' at his 2nd coming (Revelation 19:17-21).
Also, regarding the 10-virgins parable, in Matthew 25:6 "midnight" could represent mid-tribulation, when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) could be set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). So when it says "at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh" (Matthew 25:6), this could mean that at the mid-tribulation point when the abomination of desolation is set up, the church will be given the knowledge of the date (as in the year, month, and day) of Jesus' 2nd coming. This date could be the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, cf. Revelation 16:15).
*******
Note that the blessed hope (Titus 2:13) is the hope of eternal life: "In hope of eternal life" (Titus 1:2), "that blessed hope" (Titus 2:13), "the hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:7), by which is meant the hope of obtaining an immortal, physical resurrection body (Romans 8:23-25, Philippians 3:21, Luke 24:39) at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which won't occur until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). Also, Jesus himself is the hope of believers (1 Timothy 1:1b), for he himself is eternal life (John 14:6), and only by believing in him can people have eternal life (John 3:36).
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Bab, personally, I view the phrase "rightly dividing the word of truth" as a reference to laying out aright one's truth based word to others, as that is what Paul is relating to Timothy as to Paul's desire that Timothy put his audience "in remembrance" of "things."
At the same time, Paul communicates his point to Timothy, there, in 2 Timothy 2, by way of a CONTRAST TO, or DISTINCTION TO that - BOTH by his use of the word BUT - in the very next, CONTRASTING passage, BUT ALSO by way of his relating to Timothy the ERROR CONCERNING THE TRUTH of two individuals he mentions there, who had apparantly failed as to WHERE as to A TIME LINE of some sort they had placed "the resurrection" obviously YET FUTURE from Paul and Timothy, as PAST ALREADY."
In other words, Paul, could not but have to DIVIDE BETWEEN those issues PRIOR TO AS WELL AS THIS SIDE OF the Mystery revealed to and through him by Christ, Col. 1:23-29.
The brother was constantly using phrasing like BUT NOW, etc., as had Christ, given the DISTINCTION between "the Law and the Prophets" and His own "BUT I say unto you.." as a transition was "at hand" then too.
As for our constant emphasis of Paul's ministry, consider that Christ had consistently emphasized Moses - "what did Moses say... write... command." Its that same kind of emphasis as Paul is to the Body what Moses is to Israel.
Regarding kingdom of heaven/ of God phrasing, I see them as interchangeable terms, at the same time that I recognize their DISTINCTION in meaning as to the will of God ON EARTH in CONTRAST TO His will IN HEAVEN.
Lastly, we see the Body as comprised of both Jew and Gentile as fellow-heirs WITH Christ over His HEAVENLY realm - the will of Heaven IN Heaven.
We see those Jews saved into the Body as having begun AFTER Israel was concluded UNcircumcision, their only salvation then/now through Paul's Christ given "my gospel... OF the UNcircumcision" that both said Jews and Gentiles THIS SIDE of disobedient and gainsaying Israel now had to avail itself of.
We make a DISTINCTION BETWEEN that AND the election of Israel - they of the circumcision which had believed BEFORE disobedient Israel was cut off from THEIR "gospel OF the Circumcision," AT THE SAME TIME that God sealed that election of that nation unto another day - that day of "how much more their fullness."
So, yes, but we mean God's TWO-FOLD Purpose - His Prophesied Purpose as to the election of that nation as His Royal Priesthood over the nations of this EARTH one day, Isaiah 2:1-5; 61: 1-6 and His Kept Secret Purpose as to A New Creature: the Body of Christ; His co-heirs with Him, as His fullness of Him that filleth all in all those Heavenly Places, Eph. 1:3; 19-23.
Its the finer DISTINCTIONS in these things that have you scratching your head
"For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the WHOLE family IN Heaven AND Earth is named," Eph. 3: 14, 15.
The following quotes are from teachers at Dallas Theological. Are these in alignment with Mid-Acts Dispensationalism?
Lewis Sperry Chafer the first president of Dallas Theological had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church.
The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne, that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
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Codger
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iamlamad said:
It has been estimated that since the birth of the Church on Pentecost of 30AD there have been over 70,000,000 martyrs. It has been also estimated that there are about 170,000 martyrs each year. Under the Roman Empire there were over 1,500,000 martyrs. There was no worse time for the Christians than under the reign of Diocletian. He is credited for killing about 450,000 Christians.
Just wondering how this fits into your theology.
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Riberra
Well-Known Member
Reread my posts #218 and #223 and that is exactly what i said.
Jesus First Coming was about 2,000 years ago. ie (from 2014)
Jesus Second Coming will be immediately after the Tribulation ...
The apostles have seen Jesus First Coming but they will not see His Second Coming.
It is relevant because Matthew 24:29-30( from the Olivet Discourse) clearly set up the time frame of Jesus Second Coming....
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NannaNae
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rapture at the mid point / pre wrath? .... yes for some , no for others. I am sure he has a plan ! some are part of the plan here and others part of the plan for there
all who follow him will have jobs to do are part of the plans somehow to be ready
so that "the bride has MADE herself ready"
for his appearance .
Now while he is still away , he isn't away he is providing what is needed for her to get ready. and he is away in order to protect or do things for those he has doing his will.
those who love him will follow his leading and do what he needs done here or there to be ready for his real coming in great glory and real power .
those who don't know him will just be their normal just freakin out drama selfies and get in his peoples way to keep them from doing his will . and these unbelievers narcissistically continue on in their mongering of each other until it is all over and done.
all who follow him will have jobs to do are part of the plans somehow to be ready
so that "the bride has MADE herself ready"
for his appearance .
Now while he is still away , he isn't away he is providing what is needed for her to get ready. and he is away in order to protect or do things for those he has doing his will.
those who love him will follow his leading and do what he needs done here or there to be ready for his real coming in great glory and real power .
those who don't know him will just be their normal just freakin out drama selfies and get in his peoples way to keep them from doing his will . and these unbelievers narcissistically continue on in their mongering of each other until it is all over and done.
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Someone must have mislead you in the past, if you still cannot let go of the pretrib doctrine after all of the evidence presented on this forum.
You do not know who Charles Spurgeon was, but claim to know more about Bible interpretation than a pastor trained at the number one seminary in our nation that promotes your doctrine.
You claim to have almost no former knowledge of John Darby, Margaret Macdonald or the Irvingites, but are confident in the validity of your doctrine, and express irritation at the exposure of these people and the role they played in your doctrine's development.
Your main form of debate is personal attacks upon those with a different viewpoint.
Yes. I would agree that you have been mislead in the past.
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Yea and many Christians are being beheaded, crucified, and stoned "Today". Many of the Christians in the middle east are ready to fight with their faith in Christ to try to overcome the ISIL militant's. Are they being "Ruptured"? No, they are Christians in a "Muslim World" and they are being attack by this Evil Levant on a daily basis.
Are we any special? Nope..........
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Are we surprise by what happens? Jesus said in the last days before His return, Christians will be kill. Christians have been persecuted since the first century.
Matthew 24:8-9
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
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dfw69
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It's not about being special...the rapture happens before the wrath of God...God does not appoint wrath for his church
The rapture is an appointed day...like when Israel was in bondage and served Egypt for many years ...400 Years or so...yet a deliver came in the form of Moses and Aaron...at an appointed time they were set free....we will be too...at an appointed time the promise will come ...where we are taken to heaven and have received our glorified bodies...to live in New Jerusalem..
It happens before the wrath of God...
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Riberra
Well-Known Member
Can you point out a verse saying clearly that God have made such a promise to take the Church out of the Earth to Heaven --BEFORE-- the Great Tribulation or in the middle of it ?
At which point of the Great Tribulation is the wrath of God?
Do you think that Revelation 15 and 16 who happen after the seven trumps is the starting of God's wrath?
Revelation 15 King James Version (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2015&version=KJV
And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
Revelation 16 King James Version (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 16&version=KJV
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
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What and when is the wrath of God?
Pretribbers often say we must be removed before the trib, because we are not appointed to wrath. They then say the trib is the wrath of God. There is just one little problem. Is this statement scriptural?
We are not appointed to wrath, because Christ took our wrath at the cross.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
The problem occurs when pretribbers describe all of the trib as the wrath of God.
At least part of the wrath during this time comes from Satan based on Rev. 12:12.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
God's wrath is poured out on the unbelievers on the last day of the trib after we are gathered by Christ at his return.
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The whole argument breaks down when we examine what is actually described in scripture.
Yes. We are not appointed to wrath, but most of the trib is the wrath of Satan against the Church.
The beheadings in the middle east are an example. Those Brothers and Sisters are being tortured and killed now. For them it cannot get any worse. Those in-Christ who were killed are now with Christ, waiting on us to join them.
You could go to the middle east and tell their family's that they will be removed before the trib, because we are not appointed to wrath. However, they might give you a different perspective based on the recent death of their loved one.
Author Tim LaHaye claims Christ would not want a "battered bride". He must not know much about the history of the Church. The persecution started with the stoning of Stephen and continues to this day.
As usual, pretrib logic does not match up with the reality of God's Word or the history of the Church.
.
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Wow, I didn't expect a reply let alone a rebuttal because all I said was "No worries. It happens. Everyone including myself have gotten mislead at one time or another" in my last reply.
I was showing compassion from what you told me but apparently that doesn't seem to go well with you either, because here you are again, nothing good to say.
You mean like the video in this link you keep plastering on every forum you can get to even though it's been proven by others to be false.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7810638-19/
What about how you take scriptures out of content and twist it's meaning injecting your own agenda to others less knowledgeable of bible prophecy?
This time with Luke 17 involving the rapture where you managed to turned the Blessed Hope of the Church to a Condemnation of the Saints involving vultures.
Titus 2:13 (NKJV)
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
The other thing is this, no one is attacking you. We end up constantly having to defend the gospel and try to prevent others from being mislead by your teachings.
~ Are you not the one who posted that thread about Christians being eaten by vultures during the rapture in post #174? You managed to deceive another member of the Body of Christ with your teaching until a few of us stepped in to correct you.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7835469-18/
~ Are you not the one constantly posting external links like this one? Others including myself have already proven it wrong months ago. Yet you keep plastering it where ever and whenever you can.
That's right. I didn't know any of those people till you came along constantly preaching them. Apparently you don't understand, wisdom comes from God, not the internet. Deception can come from the internet....did you know that?
And it doesn't matter how much worldly knowledge or accomplishments you've made. When it comes to spiritual knowledge, your worldly internet wisdom will always fall apart.
You ever heard of Nicodemus? He was a Pharisee, a member of the Sanhedrin Council and one of the greatest teacher of his time and thought he knew everything.
He went to Jesus one night wanting to know how to enter the Kingdom of God.
~Jesus said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God."
~Instead of being humble and ask Jesus how can one be born again? He assume Christ was speaking in a literal sense and replied "how can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mothers womb and be born?
~Jesus replied and thoroughly explained how one can be born again. John 3:5-8.
~Nicodemus replied: How can these things be?
Absolute arrogance to assume Jesus was speaking in the literal sense and even questioned Him.
~Jesus replied: Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?"
John 3:10 You are Israels teacher, said Jesus, and do you - Online Bible Study Tools
The message behind that. It doesn't matter how much worldly wisdom you have, the bible will humble you and make one look foolish if you think you know it all. Guess why so much of the bible is allegorical? God will give wisdom through the Holy Spirit to those who are obedient and humble. I'm not making this up, it's God that gives wisdom to help you understand the bible, not the internet.
Since you love videos, I dug up these for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt6o9kOASUQ
And why do we need to be humble before God?
https://www.lds.org/bible-videos/videos/jesus-teaches-that-we-must-become-as-little-children?lang=eng
And how many times have people here told you to stick to the bible by now? Is it not logical if one wants to learn about God's word, read directly from the bible?
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I was showing compassion from what you told me but apparently that doesn't seem to go well with you either, because here you are again, nothing good to say.
You mean like the video in this link you keep plastering on every forum you can get to even though it's been proven by others to be false.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7810638-19/
What about how you take scriptures out of content and twist it's meaning injecting your own agenda to others less knowledgeable of bible prophecy?
This time with Luke 17 involving the rapture where you managed to turned the Blessed Hope of the Church to a Condemnation of the Saints involving vultures.
Titus 2:13 (NKJV)
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
The other thing is this, no one is attacking you. We end up constantly having to defend the gospel and try to prevent others from being mislead by your teachings.
~ Are you not the one who posted that thread about Christians being eaten by vultures during the rapture in post #174? You managed to deceive another member of the Body of Christ with your teaching until a few of us stepped in to correct you.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7835469-18/
~ Are you not the one constantly posting external links like this one? Others including myself have already proven it wrong months ago. Yet you keep plastering it where ever and whenever you can.
That's right. I didn't know any of those people till you came along constantly preaching them. Apparently you don't understand, wisdom comes from God, not the internet. Deception can come from the internet....did you know that?
And it doesn't matter how much worldly knowledge or accomplishments you've made. When it comes to spiritual knowledge, your worldly internet wisdom will always fall apart.
You ever heard of Nicodemus? He was a Pharisee, a member of the Sanhedrin Council and one of the greatest teacher of his time and thought he knew everything.
He went to Jesus one night wanting to know how to enter the Kingdom of God.
~Jesus said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God."
~Instead of being humble and ask Jesus how can one be born again? He assume Christ was speaking in a literal sense and replied "how can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mothers womb and be born?
~Jesus replied and thoroughly explained how one can be born again. John 3:5-8.
~Nicodemus replied: How can these things be?
Absolute arrogance to assume Jesus was speaking in the literal sense and even questioned Him.
~Jesus replied: Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?"
John 3:10 You are Israels teacher, said Jesus, and do you - Online Bible Study Tools
The message behind that. It doesn't matter how much worldly wisdom you have, the bible will humble you and make one look foolish if you think you know it all. Guess why so much of the bible is allegorical? God will give wisdom through the Holy Spirit to those who are obedient and humble. I'm not making this up, it's God that gives wisdom to help you understand the bible, not the internet.
Since you love videos, I dug up these for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt6o9kOASUQ
And why do we need to be humble before God?
https://www.lds.org/bible-videos/videos/jesus-teaches-that-we-must-become-as-little-children?lang=eng
And how many times have people here told you to stick to the bible by now? Is it not logical if one wants to learn about God's word, read directly from the bible?
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LOL! Absolutely zero knowledge of scripture. Who do you think Jesus is?
Also just in case you didn't know about the trinity. God in heaven is the Father, God on earth is the Son, and God in us is the Holy Spirit.
So what other verses did you find with the word wrath you did your search on?
I just can't help it. The way you constantly keep attacking people.......but with ignorance too. Sorry I'm not attacking you, but you keep doing this and it's now at a point of being ridiculous having to rebuke your knowledge of the scriptures just so you can learn.
If you ask for help, your replies would be a lot more pleasant. But if you keep attacking others like this, well..............
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I've read your posts and know what you're trying to get at, but it's not possible or logical.
Read Luke 17:22. Nobody can live 2K years to witness Christ's first and second coming. Why would you think Christ was referring to them? No one can live that long. Why would Christ even bother to tell them, they'll all die in the first century. It's common knowledge and a waste to tell them this.
The answer is He's not referring to them. He was talking about Christians in the last days that missed the rapture and died during the tribulation.
Luke 17:22 (NKJV)
Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.
~ You just realized the rapture happened and you're still here. You missed the first day of the Son of Man.
~ You pray to Jesus asking why did you get left behind. Matthew 7:21-23 or Matthew 25:12-13.
Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)
21) “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22) Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23) And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Matthew 25:11-13 (NKJV)
11) “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12) But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’
13) “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.
NOTE: Who are these people who calls Jesus Lord?
~ You try to survive the 7 years to reach the millennium, but you're not protected by the Seal of God. Only the 144,000 are. You're on your own and die because you were too busy preparing to go through the tribulation and not be watchful at all times ignoring Luke 21:36. Now you're dead and missed the second day of the Son of man.
Isaiah 24:6 (NKJV)
Therefore the curse has devoured the earth,
And those who dwell in it are desolate.
Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned,
And few men are left.
~ “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it."
~ But in your case, you already told us you don't believe in the rapture so what can I say. I'm sure you must have good reasons to know when it'll happen.
Nope, Luke 17:22 is about missing the rapture, not the second coming at the end of the tribulation.
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