Questions about iconography...

[truthseeker32]

Are icons ever painted in such a way that the figure represented looks happy? If so, I would like to see examples. If not, why not?

 

[ikonographics]

Icons are not supposed the show emotions, so as not to influence the viewer in the way that sentimental western art does.

 

[truthseeker32]

Icons are not supposed the show emotions, so as not to influence the viewer in the way that sentimental western art does.

why do some look angry then?

 

[ikonographics]

Maybe the iconographer was angry when he was painting it...

 

[Trogool]

I'm sorry it's not much to go on, but could someone take a stab at telling me what saint is in the leftmost icon in this picture with the vigil lamp?

If it helps, the vigil lamp is covering up a short, pointed beard.

 

[ikonographics]

My guess would be St Nicholas of Myra

 

[truefiction1]

Icons are not supposed the show emotions, so as not to influence the viewer in the way that sentimental western art does.

Well said, ikonographics.

With deep humility owing to my own considerable lack of iconography knowledge, I'd just like to add that I think that we like it if our icons convey the divine attributes (the Holy Spirit residing within) of the people depicted in them. That is, we wish to see those who are saved (saints), by means of communion with the Holy Spirit, as one's who are dispassionate, not passionate; vessels of the Holy Spirit who exhibit God's humility, peace, love, and Divine sobriety.

And of course, we sometimes see saints depicted with rather serious/stern faces, which may be seen as an indication of the utter seriousness with which we must always regard our spiritual lives, just as they themselves did.

... Merely humble suggestions I offer for consideration.

 

[MinaRB]

Dear iconographers,

I've recently come across a small and rather 'strange' looking little icon. The overall air of the icon looks something like International Gothic to me, possibly 1300-1400s.
Mary is depicted in near frontal view, sitting on a rectangular stone bench, with the Child in her lap. The Child is leaning his back on her left arm, both are looking towards each other in a mild manner. So far it seems like a bit of a standard 'Loving Mary' icon, but the faces are quite a bit apart, and also both their hands are posed in front of their bodies, but not making any particular gestures. Behind them, standing behind the stone bench, are four other New Testament figures, i.e. Joseph, two to the left and two to the right.
I have a hunch that the model for this was taken from a book of hours, possibly, but this very clear, somewhat formal and simple, but still striking composition with no frills and no distinct Virgin Iconography I have not yet come across. Any ideas?

 

[88Devin07]

Are there many more icons out there which include depictions of cities they are in?

A few examples of this I have in mind are:

Los Angeles, CA from a Serbian Parish (warning, large):
http://www.westsrbdio.org/images/homepage_illustrations/OurLadyofLosAngeles.jpg

Riverside, CA from St. Andrew's Orthodox Church:
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8wYxRrRM48Y/0.jpg

I've also seen a simple one for Athens with Mary above the mountains/city with hands raised. Presumably as patron and protector of Athens, replacing pagan Athena, who was referred to as Parthenos (Virgin), hence the title of the Parthenon, the chief temple to Athena in Athens.

I've also seen one for St. Demetrios (patron of Thessaloniki) in Thessaloniki where he is slaying an enemy with Thessaloniki to his back.

Are there any more examples like this?

 

[Dorothea]

There's one in the Cathedral of St. Andrew in Patras, Greece where the Theotokos has arms spread out over the town of Patra.

 

[88Devin07]

There's one in the Cathedral of St. Andrew in Patras, Greece where the Theotokos has arms spread out over the town of Patra.

This? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Hagios_Andreas_Pantokrator.jpg (large)

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

Are icons ever done as mosaics?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Are icons ever done as mosaics?

I've seen some; this one is on a RCC in Guelph Ontario:

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

How does one become an iconographer?

 

[ArmyMatt]

How does one become an iconographer?

from what I gather, feel the call, pray, and talk to your priest. dunno where it goes from there.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Are icons ever done as mosaics?

yep they are, there are a ton around St Tikhon's Monastery.

I've seen some; this one is on a RCC in Guelph Ontario:

sorry but that is not an icon. icons don't depict Christ as an animal

 

[prodromos]

This is the front of my old parish church in Thessaloniki, Greece. The Church of the Ascension of our Lord.

The mosaics were produced by a group of nuns. I don't remember which monastery they were from.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

yep they are, there are a ton around St Tikhon's Monastery.



sorry but that is not an icon. icons don't depict Christ as an animal

I guess it's a definition thing. In the RC and our traditions, the term Christian Iconography paints with a fairly wide brush; For instance, my name sake St. Mark is often represented as a winged lion holding his Gospel:

We consider symbols, such as this one which represents the Trinity, icons as well:

This is the front of my old parish church in Thessaloniki, Greece. The Church of the Ascension of our Lord.

The mosaics were produced by a group of nuns. I don't remember which monastery they were from.

Very beautiful indeed!

 

[ikonographics]

This is why we don't depict Christ as a lamb. Canon 82 of the Quinisext Council in Troullo:

"In some of the paintings of the venerable icons, a lamb is inscribed as being shown or pointed at by the Precursor’s finger, which was taken to be a type of grace, suggesting beforehand through the law the true lamb to us, Christ our God. Therefore, eagerly embracing the old types and the shadows as symbols of the truth and preindications handed down to the Church, we prefer the grace, and accept it as the truth in fulfillment of the Law. Since, therefore, that which is perfect even though it be but painted is imprinted in the faces of all, the Lamb who taketh away the sin of the world Christ our God, with respect to His human character, we decree that henceforth He shall be inscribed even in the icons instead of the ancient lamb: through Him being enabled to comprehend the reason for the humiliation of the God Logos, and in memory of His life in the flesh and of His passion and of His soterial death being led by the hand, as it were, and of the redemption of the world which thence accrues."

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

This is why we don't depict Christ as a lamb. Canon 82 of the Quinisext Council in Troullo:

"In some of the paintings of the venerable icons, a lamb is inscribed as being shown or pointed at by the Precursor’s finger, which was taken to be a type of grace, suggesting beforehand through the law the true lamb to us, Christ our God. Therefore, eagerly embracing the old types and the shadows as symbols of the truth and preindications handed down to the Church, we prefer the grace, and accept it as the truth in fulfillment of the Law. Since, therefore, that which is perfect even though it be but painted is imprinted in the faces of all, the Lamb who taketh away the sin of the world Christ our God, with respect to His human character, we decree that henceforth He shall be inscribed even in the icons instead of the ancient lamb: through Him being enabled to comprehend the reason for the humiliation of the God Logos, and in memory of His life in the flesh and of His passion and of His soterial death being led by the hand, as it were, and of the redemption of the world which thence accrues."

Very interesting, I did not know, but I understand. In the depiction of the Lamb of God, it's interesting to note that the Lamb is upon the book of the seven seals which is from the Revelation. And also from Revelation "Worthy is Christ, the Lamb who was slain...".