question on NDE

[Dave L]

Which verse are you referring to? 2 Corinthians 12:3-4 explicitly refers to the 3rd Heaven.

That's what we are talking about. Not the heaven where birds fly, or the heavens where rocket ships fly, but heaven where Jesus is.

 

[Fascinated With God]

Calm down. Try not to get so upset.

I'm not upset at armchair quarterbacks and backseat drivers. I just don't have much respect for the approach.

Btw, did you remember what she experienced while you were coming down the birth canal? You seem to think that makes you the expert, having your mother experience that while you were being born.

Being inundated by it as I was growing up and then reading all of Dr. Ramond Moody's books and more means I have an informed opinion. Not an uninformed opinion.

Otherwise you need to realize that sinking into being insulting shows you’re really upset, more so than !!!! or ???? So try to calm down.

Saying "calm down" is not an insult and you have just verified that you are very upset by getting overtly irate.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

He said people are not allowed. = nobody is telling the truth but are probably innocently deceived.

No he said HE was not allowed. Since we don’t know what he saw, we cannot judge what others say. Nothing I’ve ever heard sounded like it would not have been permitted. Pretty innocuous all of them. Clearly Paul didn’t see singing flowers.

 

[Fascinated With God]

That's what we are talking about. Not the heaven where birds fly, or the heavens where rocket ships fly, but heaven where Jesus is.

Yes, obviously. That in no way answers my question. The 3rd heaven IS the heaven where Jesus is. 2 Corinthians 12:3-4 refers to the 3rd heaven and says nothing unpleasant about it.

 

[Dave L]

Yes, obviously. That in no way answers my question. The 3rd heaven IS the heaven where Jesus is. 2 Corinthians 12:3-4 refers to the 3rd heaven and says nothing unpleasant about it.

So?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I'm not upset at armchair quarterbacks and backseat drivers. I just don't have much respect for the approach.

Cause your mother had one at your birth? That makes you an expert?

Being inundated by it as I was growing up and then reading all of Dr. Ramond Moody's books and more means I have an informed opinion. Not an uninformed opinion.

So anyone who challenges your view is an armchair quarterback? Your “education” in this is not impressive.

Saying "calm down" is not an insult and you have just verified that you are very upset by getting overtly irate.

Not at all but it seems you have managed to calm down now. Good work. Glad you could take my advise.

 

[Fascinated With God]

No he said HE was not allowed. Since we don’t know what he saw, we cannot judge what others say. Nothing I’ve ever heard sounded like it would not have been permitted. Pretty innocuous all of them. Clearly Paul didn’t see singing flowers.

Singing flowers? LOL you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I wouldn't doubt there was one person who experienced that, but I've never heard of it and it CERTAINLY isn't one of the common aspects of NDE's.

 

[Albion]

i have seen numerous youtube videos of NDE experiences that doesnt explain seeing Jesus, heaven etc.
I am a christian obviously, but im just confused why so many people have had similar experiences that doesnt include jesus etc.

I have seen also some explaining heaven and hell but a majority of them seem to just be about feeling peace, light etc.

Its just confusing and wanted to know why people are seeing this that are atheists and people that dont believe and why they dont just go straight to hell.
Or why people that even had a christian background dont explain it as we all seem to think how it is or should be.


Would love some insight.

Josh, NDEs come in many varieties; it is not necessarily about going to heaven or hell or someplace else in the afterlife. Many people report simply being out of the body but in more or less the same place--or near it--as they were before and functioning the same as before except for being separate from the body and still alive.

And while many come back with tales of meeting people and being sent back to Earth, not all experience this. Plus, some who come back are overcome with a sense of peace and love, etc. but others are not. Most say they are no longer afraid of physical death, however.

About all that an NDE proves, if it does prove it, is that the soul can or will be conscious apart from the body.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Singing flowers? LOL you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I wouldn't doubt there was one person who experienced that, but I've never heard of it and it CERTAINLY isn't one of the common aspects of NDE's.

See, there are things you don’t know about. Some education. And that you continue to be insulting shows you’re very upset. I’ll bow out cause I don’t like you getting angry. Not good for you.

 

[Fascinated With God]

Cause your mother had one at your birth? That makes you an expert?
So anyone who challenges your view is an armchair quarterback? Your “education” in this is not impressive.

No, anyone who jumps to conclusions without real info is just being judgemental, not objective.

Not at all but it seems you have managed to calm down now. Good work. Glad you could take my advise.

LOL, "I'm rubber you're glue" is that how this debate is going to devolve into, playground taunts? You are quite puerile.

 

[Fascinated With God]

See, there are things you don’t know about. Some education. And that you continue to be insulting shows you’re very upset. I’ll bow out cause I don’t like you getting angry. Not good for you.

You pull some nonsense out of your hat and call that real info? LOL, please leave the debate to rational people.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That's what we are talking about. Not the heaven where birds fly, or the heavens where rocket ships fly, but heaven where Jesus is.

I have a strong opinion that Jesus doesn’t stay in one place. I’ve heard he has even been seen in earth. That’s farther than any of the dwellings in his fathers quarters.

But otherwise I leave the debate to you to carry on. Leaves only one rational person in the discussion, you, so good luck.

I don’t go farther than what seems reasonable and that is precious little from scripture. I think we can assume that the real information Paul was not allowed to share was for good reason. We can see how experiences by the ignorant become the mother of delusions. If they really knew something true and valuable, like Paul, they would not be allowed to share it so you and I probably agree.

 

[Fascinated With God]

But otherwise I leave the debate to you to carry on. Leaves only one rational person in the discussion, you, so good luck.

Perhaps that's why you feel so defensive, you feel outnumbered. That would never bother me. I'm not insecure in my beliefs.

 

[Dave L]

I have a strong opinion that Jesus doesn’t stay in one place. I’ve heard he has even been seen in earth. That’s farther than any of the dwellings in his fathers quarters.

But otherwise I leave the debate to you to carry on. Leaves only one rational person in the discussion, you, so good luck.

I don’t go farther than what seems reasonable and that is precious little from scripture. I think we can assume that the real information Paul was not allowed to share was for good reason. We can see how experiences by the ignorant become the mother of delusions. If they really knew something true and valuable, like Paul, they would not be allowed to share it so you and I probably agree.

We need to make sure what we believe is founded in scripture. Lies will lead us astray and affect the scriptural truth we believe.

 

[fat wee robin]

Have you not read what these NDE's by and large are teaching?

As for the verses concerning preaching another Gospel it's about preaching a contradictory message to the one the apostles preached - something many/most NDE's do, whether you care to admit it or not. Knowledge and research - not difficult.

As for the Holy Spirit, He doesn't speak anything against the Father or the Son, ever. The three are always in perfect agreement so if you want to be clear/certain about what your being taught by the Spirit you consult the written word.

I'm led by the Spirit - but that Spirit I'm led by doesn't teach in opposition to scripture - ever.

I have just read that you are a convert ,and that christianity therefore is not in your tradition . As a newbie you should be careful , but also you should be careful to respect those who have more experience than you .Just because you have not eperienced something does not mean it is not true and that there is nothing to learn . Why Don't you and some of the deniers here ask questions sometimes ?
People who say that 'scripture ' is enough , must say which version ,and which translation ,and how much ablity to understand has the individual .

There was so much said by Jesus which never made it into the Bible ,but I know that God has chosen some to understand those things which do not appear in the protestant bible particularly which is an edited one .

 

[fat wee robin]

People that do magic mushrooms, DMT, Iowa-ska and the like also have similar experiences. There is a supernatural world, unexplained phenomena that science will tend to avoid explaining.

I think peer pressure from this world has made many Christian institutions down play and also deny that there is a supernatural world that actually has a great influence and effects our world.

Like who nowadays believes President Trump is only a very minor player when it comes to this world's politics. Acts of the Apostles 17:7 Daniel 4:34-35

Yes unfortunately they mix everything together ,mainly because they are not yet ready and fear dictates rather than God .

 

[fat wee robin]

We need to make sure what we believe is founded in scripture. Lies will lead us astray and affect the scriptural truth we believe.

In that case since computers are not 'in scripture ' either they don't exist ,or they
are off the devil .Thank Heaven that so many limited minds can no longer prevent
research and personal révélations or humanity would still be living in 33 AD .

 

[Francis Drake]

You cannot go beyond what Paul says without adding to scripture.

That's a bit silly, given that other writers go a long way beyond Paul's limitation.

 

[Francis Drake]

But he says it is impossible to describe what people describe who think they went to heaven.

Paul was not talking about anyone but himself. Clearly other scripture writers saw stuff they wrote about without getting smitten by a thunderbolt.

 

[Albion]

People who say that 'scripture ' is enough , must say which version ,and which translation ,and how much ablity to understand has the individual .

Not so. The Bible is the Bible, regardless of translation or the comprehension of the individual reader, etc. So when we say the Bible is enough, it means that scripture--being the word of God as it is--has no equal in human reason, custom, theological opinion from famous and well-respected church leaders, or anything else of that sort.

And by the way, all of those are subject to the same limitations as you thought applied to the Bible.

There was so much said by Jesus which never made it into the Bible....

Certainly. The Bible itself says that.

It also says that what DID make it into the Bible is all that is necessary for us to know in this life for the purposes of doing God's will and being saved.