question on NDE

[Dorothy Mae]

What is the distinction between a Saint being out of the body (OBE) vs. an NDE of a good person? Theologically the distinction is meaningless. It's just semantic quibbling.

Dead and not dead is pretty different.

 

[zoidar]

"Near Death" is not death. Those who experience NDE are not those who have actually died. For "everyone must die once, and after that the judgement" Heb 9:27

Yes after death comes judgement, it doesn't say directly after death comes judgement. The people that Jesus gave life back to surely were dead, and they had not been judged.

 

[Dave L]

Gather? Perhaps you should study the subject more rather than jumping to conclusions. People experience miraculous positive life changes as a result of NDE's. OBE's don't do that, much less hallucinations.

I'm just saying, Paul who we know is true, said it is impossible to put into words what he saw in heaven.

 

[Fascinated With God]

The D stands for death. Paul’s description doesn’t come close,

What does it matter how you get to heaven and return? Are you claiming OBE's are more valid than NDE's? OBE's in normal people do not produce anything like the kind of profound positive improvements in psychological state and testably elevated compassion. So if anything, OBE's are far LESS effective at conveying the reality of Heaven and Hell.

 

[Dave L]

The D stands for death. Paul’s description doesn’t come close,

But he says it is impossible to describe what people describe who think they went to heaven.

 

[Dave L]

What is the distinction between a Saint being out of the body (OBE) vs. an NDE of a good person? Theologically the distinction is meaningless. It's just semantic quibbling.

But Paul said it is impossible to describe heaven.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

But he says it is impossible to describe what people describe who think they went to heaven.

I think he said he was not permitted to tell, not that he couldn’t find the words.

 

[Fascinated With God]

I'm just saying, Paul who we know is true, said it is impossible to put into words what he saw in heaven.

Impossible today, or with their primitive illiterate culture back then? Even today it is far from easy. Just because they use words to describe Heaven don't presume to really understand them unless you've been there yourself.

 

[Dave L]

I think he said he was not permitted to tell, not that he couldn’t find the words.

either way............... how can you trust those who contradict him?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

But Paul said it is impossible to describe heaven.

No, he said it is not permitted to tell.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

either way............... how can you trust those who contradict him?

What he saw he was not permitted to tell so we cannot compare that to what others saw which they were permitted to tell.

 

[Dave L]

Impossible today, or with their primitive illiterate culture back then? Even today it is far from easy. Just because they use words to describe Heaven don't presume to really understand them unless you've been there yourself.

We have no biblical proof to support NDE claims. We have some visions into the unseen realm in Scripture but only Paul's trip to heaven which does not confirm what NDE report.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Impossible today, or with their primitive illiterate culture back then? Even today it is far from easy. Just because they use words to describe Heaven don't presume to really understand them unless you've been there yourself.

The guys who wrote the Bible came from an illiterate primitive culture??? You got anyone today or in the last 2000 years who wrote about these matters better than they did?

 

[Dave L]

What he saw he was not permitted to tell so we cannot compare that to what others saw which they were permitted to tell.

“And I know that this man (whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows) was caught up into paradise and heard things too sacred to be put into words, things that a person is not permitted to speak.” (2 Corinthians 12:3–4)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

We have no biblical proof to support NDE claims. We have some visions into the unseen realm in Scripture but only Paul's trip to heaven which does not confirm what NDE report.

Jonah had a NDE for sure.

 

[Dave L]

Jonah had a NDE for sure.

What did he report?

 

[Fascinated With God]

The guys who wrote the Bible came from an illiterate primitive culture??? You got anyone today or in the last 2000 years who wrote about these matters better than they did?

Calm down, lady. I'm talking about the masses, not the elite educated. That should be self-apparent from my statement. I don't know why I have to explain such an OBVIOUS historical fact.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

“And I know that this man (whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows) was caught up into paradise and heard things too sacred to be put into words, things that a person is not permitted to speak.” (2 Corinthians 12:3–4)

”paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.”

Not lawful to utter, not impossible to describe.

 

[Fascinated With God]

What did he report?

He refers to being in the belly of the whale as being in Sheol, the place of the dead. Are you familiar with Sheol? Many Christians are not and have no concept of what Sheol really is.

 

[Dave L]

He refers to being in the belly of the whale as being in Sheol, the place of the dead. Are you familiar with Sheol? Many Christians are not and have no concept of what Sheol really is.

That was not Heaven.