question on NDE

Blade

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I will say.. always make sure its in the word or goes inline with the word. And myself as WONDEFUL AWESOME so many of these have happen. I take with a grain of salt. The books have not been open yet..so.... if GOD has not open those books for ALL to be judged (but us..we have Christ) I WONDER sometimes what they saw.

Satan show'd Jesus the wonder of the world in a moments time. He can show people all kind of visions like God can. This is why we are told to ALWAYS test the spirits. So many do not. Get a dream see a vision.. no prayer.. no waiting on God..not making sure its written.. just RUN with it.. :)

What are the FRUITS of the spirit? THATS how God moves
 
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Albion

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You clearly speak only one language and know nothing about the nuances of translating into different languages with completely different cultures where there simply IS NO direct word for word translation.

You don't understand that it doesn't matter, so long as someone can read or has read the manuscripts. There is nothing devious or contrary in the fact that God chose someone to write as he was inspired to do--exactly as the Bible itself testifies.
 
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Dave L

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Paul was not talking about anyone but himself. Clearly other scripture writers saw stuff they wrote about without getting smitten by a thunderbolt.
Believe what you want, but if we stray from scripture, we can end up with believing in hallucinations produced by seriously impaired minds in the throes of death.
 
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Dave L

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In that case since computers are not 'in scripture ' either they don't exist ,or they
are off the devil .Thank Heaven that so many limited minds can no longer prevent
research and personal révélations or humanity would still be living in 33 AD .
What if you ignore scripture and believe in the hallucinations of a dying person instead?
 
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Dave L

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I have just read that you are a convert ,and that christianity therefore is not in your tradition . As a newbie you should be careful , but also you should be careful to respect those who have more experience than you .Just because you have not eperienced something does not mean it is not true and that there is nothing to learn . Why Don't you and some of the deniers here ask questions sometimes ?
People who say that 'scripture ' is enough , must say which version ,and which translation ,and how much ablity to understand has the individual .

There was so much said by Jesus which never made it into the Bible ,but I know that God has chosen some to understand those things which do not appear in the protestant bible particularly which is an edited one .
Adding to scripture is not a wise thing to do.
 
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Hawkins

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No, but he couldn't tell if he was in his body or out of it. NDEs think they left their bodies from what I gather.

NDE is not death itself. Death is rather a fated process with no return unless a resurrection is done. You will finally figure out who resurrected you in the case of a resurrection. Paul's situation bears the characteristic of being resurrected. Right after being resurrected there is a short while when the soul may not be fully "combined" with the body that your soul can still see what's happening in another realm. It is a continuous process unlike a dream which is discrete. In a dream things are not continuous that this minute you are in heaven and the next minute you are in hell.

The main indication of a true death is the flying out of your spirit. The spirit knows in advance that it's a no return death and it will decide to leave the body. Since then you need a resurrection in order to return.

NDE is more about your body reaction near the point of a clinical death. However a vision can be given in an NDE. People thus may see different things or nothing at all during NDEs. In the end since you not fated to die, the spirit doesn't make a decision to go out while you whole experience isn't about death at all. The visions given however can be meaningful as they give hints on the existence of an afterlife.
 
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Dave L

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First NDE is not death itself. Death is rather a fated process with no return unless a resurrection is done. You will finally figure out who resurrected you in the case of a resurrection. Paul's situation bears the characteristic of being resurrected. Right after being resurrected there is a short while when the soul may not be fully "combined" with the body that your soul can still see what's happening in another realm. It is a continued process unlike a dream which is discrete. In a dream things are not continuous that this minute you are in heaven and the next minute you are in hell.

The main indication of a true death is the flying out of your spirit. The spirit knows in advance that it's a no return death and it will decide to leave the body. Since then you need a resurrection in order to return.
Just that I don't rely on the hallucinations of seriously impaired people in the throes of death.
 
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Albion

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Just that I don't rely on the hallucinations of seriously impaired people in the throes of death.
That is not what NDEs are all about, however. Whatever happens and what they relay about their experience...it is after an apparent death, not while they are "in the throes of death."
 
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Francis Drake

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NDEs are in principle very similar to what Paul and others seem to have experienced.
By that I mean their human spirit lifts out of their physical body and starts to view the realm of the heavens.

In Paul's case, he went all the way into the Third Heaven, in other cases, they drifted around near the earth, or were perhaps taken up to the garden of Paradise, outside the City of God.

NDEs are called "near death", because they don't stay dead, but re-enter their body usually with the help of the doctors. Some stay dead because their human body is no longer fit for purpose, ie. physical death.

Some people find their spirit lifts free of their body due to the effects of anaesthetics in hospital.

In the drug and occult scene, similar things happen, usually encouraged by demonic forces wanting to take control of ungodly people.

When she was 3 years old, my wife had a series of experiences where she was taken out of her body into heaven. Her parents were not believers, and she had received no teaching on such matters.
She would be taken up to heaven and saw the angels and Jesus, and was told and did many things. Her mother just laughed and treated it as childish make believe, so she stopped talking about it.

When she was 18, she was given a bible for the first time and read it from cover to cover. In it she encountered the description of the City of God with the gates made of jewels and dwellings in the walls. She immediately recognised the description having been there many times in her spirit.
 
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Albion

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NDEs are in principle very similar to what Paul and others seem to have experienced.
By that I mean their human spirit lifts out of their physical body and starts to view the realm of the heavens.
Many do not report experiences in heaven or hell, but just out of the body on Earth.

Some people find their spirit lifts free of their body due to the effects of anaesthetics in hospital.

Strictly speaking, those are not NDEs. There is nothing special about people saying strange things while under anesthesia.

In the drug and occult scene, similar things happen, usually encouraged by demonic forces wanting to take control of ungodly people.
Or with that, either.
 
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Dave L

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That is not what NDEs are all about, however. Whatever happens and what they relay about their experience...it is after an apparent death, not while they are "in the throes of death."
But it doesn't match anything in scripture and could be hallucinations only.
 
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Albion

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But it doesn't match anything in scripture and could be hallucinations only.
As for the latter point, no. And that is why NDEs are fascinating, intriguing, whatever.

They cannot be explained away as hallucinations; if they could, there wouldn't be much interest in them.
 
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Dave L

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As for the latter point, no. And that is why NDEs are fascinating, intriguing, whatever.

They cannot be explained away as hallucinations; if they could, there wouldn't be much interest in them.
I still don't trust NDEs and haven't heard one yet I believe isn't hallucinatory.
 
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Albion

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I still don't trust NDEs and haven't heard one yet I believe isn't hallucinatory.
I was thinking that you would probably be interested to read some of the research. One of the books written by Raymond A. Moody, Jr. for example. He's not a head over heels believer in NDEs and most of what he presents are case studies.
 
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Dave L

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I was thinking that you would probably be interested to read some of the research. One of the books written by Raymond A. Moody, Jr. for example. He's not a head over heels believer in NDEs and most of what he presents are case studies.
I'm interested but yet have I found one I believe is authentic even though the person is sincere.
 
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Albion

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Most people probably are reluctant to believe that this is possible, but until there is some believable explanation for the experiences of some of these people--not all of them by any means!--it remains a mystery. That is why I recommended that people who think it's just a matter of hallucinations or dreams take a look at more of the material.
 
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Francis Drake

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Many do not report experiences in heaven or hell, but just out of the body on Earth.
I said they start to view the realm of the heavens which is quite correct. If they do not return to their body, from that starting position, they will be hopefully taken to the nicer part of heaven or if not, the other not so nice part.
Strictly speaking, those are not NDEs. There is nothing special about people saying strange things while under anesthesia.
I didn't say they were NDEs, but they have the same effect on the human spirit as NDEs.
Or with that, either.
Again, I never said they were NDEs.
 
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Albion

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I said they start to view the realm of the heavens which is quite correct. If they do not return to their body, from that starting position, they will be hopefully taken to the nicer part of heaven or if not, the other not so nice part.
Sorry but no. SOME people reporting NDEs may report what you are talking about, but many, perhaps most, do not. Nor do they later move from their starting position to visions of heaven, etc.

I didn't say they were NDEs, but they have the same effect on the human spirit as NDEs.

Again, I never said they were NDEs.
Well, you can see how it appeared that you were saying that they were, since you brought them up in the midst of talking about NDEs. But, no matter, we can agree that they are not part of this issue.
 
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Fascinated With God

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You don't understand that it doesn't matter, so long as someone can read or has read the manuscripts. There is nothing devious or contrary in the fact that God chose someone to write as he was inspired to do--exactly as the Bible itself testifies.
Without historical and cultural context, your understanding of the Bible is meaningless. Distortions base on not understanding the original Greek and Hebrew texts. Without context, you can distort the Bible to genocide, as Christians frequently did against Jews. ESPECIALLY HITLER.
 
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Radagast

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but.... there is christians who have died and seen jesus etc

All those reports of "seeing Jesus" are just fake. People that have an NDE are not dead, and they do not see heaven or hell.
 
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