Pyramids and the flood

[Aaron112]

The Bible doesn't say it was 6,000 years ago. Scripture doesn't say to count the generations to determine the age of the heavens and earth either.

Does what God Reveals in His Word Scripture
matter to you today ?

 

[BeyondET]

Does what God Reveals in His Word Scripture
matter to you today ?

Of coarse when it's within reason. Plutonium-242, Has a half-life of 374,000 years

so where is it revealed to count generations to determine how old the universe is?

 

[Aaron112]

Of coarse when it's within reason.

Is this your own statement, what you choose, of your own volition, today ?

 

[BeyondET]

Is this your own statement, what you choose, of your own volition, today ?

Today hmm, I've seen that before, yesterday wasn't like today?. God created Gold, He didn't create a star to supernova like today?

 

[Aaron112]

Today hmm, I've seen that before, yesterday wasn't like today?. God created Gold, He didn't create a star to supernova like today?

I have no idea what you see today, or what you're seen before.

Of coarse when it's within reason.

If this is your choice, by your own un-coerced volition, that is what I asked.

 

[BeyondET]

I have no idea what you see today, or what you're seen before.


If this is your choice, by your own un-coerced volition, that is what I asked.

But it is what you think yesterday was different than today, you've already revealed that just by mentioning today.

 

[Aaron112]

Can you see the silliness in that question?

Not related to you nor your topics/posts,
but
for those "concerned" : see the silliness in seeking how old the earth is ?
It remains hidden, unknown, unless God Chooses to Reveal it. It is not something for men to figure out (as if they could somehow do so).

 

[stevevw]

The sad part is you believe in sciences veiw of everything but everything does not believe in your or scientists-ismish ideas of what they think they see. GOBEKLI TEPEI is maybe where Noah built the Ark and gathered the animals ( not my first choice ),.

Theres no evidence for this. Besides GT is still dated at 12 to 14,000 years. You can say science is wrong to believe and yet we believe the same science when it matters such as in medicine and behavioural sciences. Or even physics ie we can fly planes and people use them everyday. Its all science.

But when it proves something you don't like and agree with it suddenly becomes untrustworthy. THis is good science on dating GT. Its been repeated at the same cite as well as at other sites around it and even on the other side of the world. In fact dozens of times. To say that every single independent test is untrustworthy is biased. We would not use that criteria for any other issue.

But you are right in that GT may have been associated with Noahs flood. If Noahs flood is the great flood of the Younger Dryas period around 12 to 14,000 years ago then GT was either a witness beforehand or the beginnings of culture soon after the flood as they are close to when the flood happened. Maybe they were a preflood culture as their beliefs are very pagan.

or where he landed and bred and raised all those baby animals that God brought him.( that one is my first choice,) especially if its elevation is just above and around 1250ft. And so if that's true then also where Noahs offspring disperced the animals clan by clan, wolf clan, bear clan etc boat load by boat load.

Actually some say that the place Noah may have landed is around Lake Van in eastern Turkey in the Armenian highlands which is around 1650 feet above sea level and near Mt Ararat.

Some very ancient ruins and artifacts have been found especially at the bottom of the lake 250 feet down. A granite chest of some sort with similar despictions as the Sumariens but predates them.

Sea levels was about 1250 between the two floods. Aka as first Noahs flood , and THEN Turtle Island event.
Turtle Island event IS WHAT GOD CALLED/ reveals as (rev 12 ) and Joshuas long day.

OK I am not sure what this means.

STOP TRYING TO TEAR HIS CHURCH AND HIS INSTRUCTION BOOK APART. A TRUE BELIEVER WHO KNOWS THE GOD OF CREATION , WONT BELIEVE THE NONSENSE. GOD IS A FULL GROWN GOD AND HE DID WHAT HE SAID, and HE IS DOING WHAT HE SAID, AND HE WILL DO WHAT HE SAID. PLEASE LEARN FROM HIM AND STOP FOLLOWING DISTRUCTION.

I am not trying to pull Gods book down. I believe everything God said. In fact I believe so much that I am confident that this will be reflected in our world and reality. Maybe not always or in that moment. But will eventually be proven true. It has to be by logic and reason.

If the flood did really happen in our recent history then we should find geological and archeological evidence for it. It should show cultures before the flood and cultures after the flood with a sort of intermission between. We should find this reflected in the historical and archeological evidence of cultures.

Not because we need this to believe God. But because Gods intervention had a real impact on our world. Its not necessary for belief but we should expect to find that the evidence in the ground aligns with Gods word. Thats just a practical reality.

The only evidence for a global sized flood in the last 20,000 years or 6,000 if you want is the one that came during the Younger Dryas extinction event. We have the scientific evidence for this from many lines of evidence and it happened around 12 to 14,000 years ago. It could not have happened 5,500 years ago as it would have wiped our the birth of civilisation with Mesopotamia and the Sumariens.

There is no evidence for such a violent and global sized event happening 5,500 years ago. Thats just obvious because its not millions of years ago we are talking about but recently. We have written history, we have the archeology and everyone agrees with the timeline that the birth of civiliusation happened 5,500 years ago.

Ps everything we see and science finds now was probably posted noahs flood and probably post Gelgamesh's water event, God buried that hill to preserve it from mankind. Yet they rape and enslaved it now and use it to distoy others souls..

I am not sure what you mean.

 

[Platte]

That's what creation is, it's taking what is already there and giving it form (days 1-3) and filling it with animals (4-6) tohu wa bohu.

Creation - is creating something that does not exists....when I make a painting - I start with nothing.

Creation: the action or process of bringing something into existence.

 

[Platte]

Moses gave us an ancient account that reflected the thoughts and genres of the people of "his" day. And because God delivered the message fairly late in the progress of human civilization, it remains poetic but cryptic, and it is tricky for us in the 21st century to appreciate.

Moreover, I think we need to be very careful to avoid being dogmatic with how we read the first two verses of chapter 1 since there is no absolute interpretive rule indicating we must take these first verses as being inclusive within 'ONE DAY / DAY ONE.'

Do you know who the father of Joseph was? Can you tell me all of his brothers? Go back further - what are Jacob's wifes name - which one was the father of Joseph? Was has Jacob's mother;s name? What about Jacob's brother's name? What did Jacob do to his brother?

Can you answer any of these questions?

 

[Platte]

The Bible doesn't say it was 6,000 years ago. Scripture doesn't say to count the generations to determine the age of the heavens and earth either.

No but Scripture does profide a complete geneology and provides date of death for each person. Its not a hard calculation.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Do you know who the father of Joseph was? Can you tell me all of his brothers? Go back further - what are Jacob's wifes name - which one was the father of Joseph? Was has Jacob's mother;s name? What about Jacob's brother's name? What did Jacob do to his brother?

Can you answer any of these questions?

Sure. I can because I've probably read the entire book of Genesis about as many times as you have. And what of it? What would answering these questions of yours demonstrate?

 

[Platte]

Not related to you nor your topics/posts,
but
for those "concerned" : see the silliness in seeking how old the earth is ?
It remains hidden, unknown, unless God Chooses to Reveal it. It is not something for men to figure out (as if they could somehow do so).

Yeah He hid it - providing us with a complete geneology was how he revealed it.

 

[Platte]

Sure. I can because I've probably read the entire book of Genesis about as many times as you have. And what of it?

Of course you can - because Moses gave you a detailed narrative of it. And because its neither cryptic or poetic. As you can see Moses doesn't provide historical narratives that way. The Creation narrative was written the same time the Historical narrative of Joseph was written. Its not difficult at all to understand and answer all those detailed required questions I posted to you.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Of course you can - because Moses gave you a detailed narrative of it. And because its neither cryptic or poetic. As you can see Moses doesn't provide historical narratives that way. The Creation narrative was written the same time the Historical narrative of Joseph was written. Its not difficult at all to understand and answer all those detailed required questions I posted to you.

Well, it's more like WE HOPE to know that the Historical narrative of Joseph was written at the same time of the Creation narrative.

 

[Platte]

Well, it's more like WE HOPE to know that the Historical narrative of Joseph was written at the same time of the Creation narrative.

Moses only lived once.....but I can understand the only spin left would be to deny Moses wrote the Creation account - good luck with that.

 

[Job 33:6]

Creation - is creating something that does not exists....when I make a painting - I start with nothing.

Creation: the action or process of bringing something into existence.

When you make a painting (ordered paint), you start with paint (disordered/tohu wa bohu paint).

Because a painting is, materialistically, just paint that you've re-arranged for a purpose. But that paint was always there, even if it didn't serve a purpose beforehand.

And that's why tohu, in Hebrew, is sometimes translated as that without purpose or meaning.

So, materialistically, even when you make a painting, you aren't actually bringing physical matter into existence. Most likely you just went to the store and bought some paint. But you didn't actually make the paint appear out of nothing. It was there even before you began painting the painting.

The purpose, value, meaning, etc. is what has come into existence. Or the arrangement etc. But not the actual material itself.

Another example would be something like, creating a football team. How do I do that? Well, I can call my friends up on the phone. We all gather around and put on our helmets.

But the creation of the football team does not require material to appear out of nothing. It's more like a rearrangement and assignment.

This player will be the quarterback, his player will be the linebacker. Etc. now I've created my football team.

And that's what God does in Genesis. He takes the sun and moon and makes them for seasons and days, and creates them to rule the day and night (assigning positions and purpose). Or, the creation of the earth during day 3, it's already there. There is just water covering it. So God moves the water out of the way and reveals the dry land etc.

The physical material is already there. God is just doing things with that material.

 

[Job 33:6]

@Platte here is a gold example to help explain:

Isaiah 65:18 ESV
[18] But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy, and her people to be a gladness.

God created Jerusalem. Now, that's not to say that God made Jerusalem appear out of nothing. Rather, God made it for something, to be a Joy.

So God can create things, even if it is physically already there.

Or here:

Isaiah 54:16 NIV
[16] “See, it is I who created the blacksmith who fans the coals into flame and forges a weapon fit for its work. And it is I who have created the destroyer to wreak havoc;

A blacksmith was created.

And Genesis follows this same line of reasoning. God takes something, the tohu wa bohu earth, and God makes them into something good that is no longer tohu wa bohu.

Day 3 for example, God takes the watery covered land, removes the water, and it is good.

And the heavens and the earth are bohu as well, empty or void. So what does God do? He fills them with animals.

So God takes the tohu wa bohu earth, and creates it by fixing its issues so that it is good by the 6th day.

 

[Platte]

When you make a painting (ordered paint), you start with paint (disordered/tohu wa bohu paint).

Because a painting is, materialistically, just paint that you've re-arranged for a purpose. But that paint was always there, even if it didn't serve a purpose beforehand.

And that's why tohu, in Hebrew, is sometimes translated as that without purpose or meaning.

So, materialistically, even when you make a painting, you aren't actually bringing physical matter into existence. Most likely you just went to the store and bought some paint. But you didn't actually make the paint appear out of nothing. It was there even before you began painting the painting.

The purpose, value, meaning, etc. is what has come into existence. Or the arrangement etc. But not the actual material itself.

Another example would be something like, creating a football team. How do I do that? Well, I can call my friends up on the phone. We all gather around and put on our helmets.

But the creation of the football team does not require material to appear out of nothing. It's more like a rearrangement and assignment.

This player will be the quarterback, his player will be the linebacker. Etc. now I've created my football team.

And that's what God does in Genesis. He takes the sun and moon and makes them for seasons and days, and creates them to rule the day and night (assigning positions and purpose). Or, the creation of the earth during day 3, it's already there. There is just water covering it. So God moves the water out of the way and reveals the dry land etc.

The physical material is already there. God is just doing things with that material.

Silly boy - Jesus is the paint.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Moses only lived once.....but I can understand the only spin left would be to deny Moses wrote the Creation account - good luck with that.

Do you actually read what someone like myself has written? Or do you just scan it and hop over every other word thinking you know what the other person is even saying, and why?

I'm not alluding to the "only spin left," as you put it. There is a 'spin' like that, but I don't adhere to it. I just log it away in my files.

And as a historical Maximalist where the Bible is concerned, you might take it into consideration that where uncertainty about the overall authorship of the Pentateuch is debated, I really DO hope it reflects Moses' writing.