Pyramids and the flood

[River Jordan]

Any time you use carbon dating - you do have selective acceptance and rejection of the results....and they are based on unverified assumptions. It is their "best guess" based on the best dating methods at their disposal. The date are not FACTUAL or verifiable.
So yes it is speculative.

That's not accurate, and I think we covered this already when I explained to you how they calibrate to known dates, such as the Vesuvius eruption.

Carbon dating should NEVER be used as your argument against the Bible.

FYI, disagreeing with your personal interpretation of scripture is not arguing against the Bible. You are not the Bible.

*Read this again*
If Creation occured in the middle east area approximately 6000 years ago...and world records show the first writings and the first civilization are both approx 5500 years ago - IN THE MIDDLE EAST! You don't see how strong that supports the Biblical (Moses) account of Creation? Or are you just gonna chalk it up to a coincidence LOL. The hard evidence is right in front of you.

I guess you're thinking that the data shows zero signs of human existence and then all of a sudden there's an explosion of humans about 6,000 years ago?

FYI, it's absolutely not like that.

 

[Platte]

That's not accurate, and I think we covered this already when I explained to you how they calibrate to known dates, such as the Vesuvius eruption.

What I am saying is 100% accurate. A volcano 2000 years ago has no bearing on a carbon dating that says 8000 years ago. We can’t even carbon date an item that died 50 years ago bec of all the irregularities in the atmosphere due to fossils fuels and nuke testing

FYI, disagreeing with your personal interpretation of scripture is not arguing against the Bible. You are not the Bible.

I don’t have a personal interpretation- I can only tell you what the Bible says

I guess you're thinking that the data shows zero signs of human existence and then all of a sudden there's an explosion of humans about 6,000 years ago?

FYI, it's absolutely not like that.

Of course it’s like that. 5500 years ago - all of a sudden we have civilizations and we have recorded history - both just suddenly appeared. There was no human existence prior to 6000 years ago

 

[River Jordan]

What I am saying is 100% accurate.

I don’t have a personal interpretation- I can only tell you what the Bible says

Of course it’s like that. 5500 years ago - all of a sudden we have civilizations and we have recorded history - both just suddenly appeared. There was no human existence prior to 6000 years ago

I appreciate how those are your beliefs, but they are not shared by all Christians or even a majority of Christians. So I don't really understand why you post with such hubris and without a shred of humility, as if everyone must agree with you.

Scripture warns us against pride. I humbly suggest you pray on that.

 

[Reneep]

I appreciate how those are your beliefs, but they are not shared by all Christians or even a majority of Christians. I humbly suggest you pray on that.

Well They will be shared by all the wise virgins who have oil in their lamps and know the Son as the eyewitness of spoken creation. So I humbly suggest you repent ( means to change your mind). The unwise virgins stay out side of the coverings and their faith in God is purified like Gold.

 

[Job 33:6]

Well They will be shared by all the wise virgins who have oil in their lamps and know the Son as the eyewitness of spoken creation. So I humbly suggest you repent ( means to change your mind). The unwise virgins stay out side of the coverings and their faith in God is purified like Gold.

YEC is unbiblical. It'll continue to die off just as it had before all this AiG nonsense.

 

[stevevw]

You are just posting speculative dates....

I just gave you links supporting this so how can they be spectulative when they are based on factual evidence. It is welkl known that writing in the form of cuniform writing began about 5,300 years ago.

But we have evidence of glyphs and other forms of communication before writing. If the the earth is only 6000 years old then we would have to squeeze the entire development from no writing to simple cave art to more complex glyths happening within a 500 year period. '

This is impossible as certain levels of development go with each style of communication. So simple cave art is seen within simple hunter gatherers. This is seen in pics of game animals depicted. Then humans become more sophisticated and develop certain architecture that is developed around the same time as glyphs.

First we see basic temples like at Gobekli Tepe where the glyphs are rough and simple right through to Egyptian hyro glyphics which are more complex and on better developed architecture.

All this could not have happened in 500 years.

If Creation occured in the middle east area approximately 6000 years ago...and world records show the first writings and the first civilization are both approx 5500 years ago - IN THE MIDDLE EAST! You don't see how strong that supports the Biblical (Moses) account of Creation? Or are you just gonna chalk it up to a coincidence LOL. The hard evidence is right in front of you.

Like I mentioned above theres a whole world of development that happened before writing actually came about. There was even a long period where there was cave art and glyphs let alone the period developing glyphs and other forms of writing.

Moses would have written the biblical books around 1400BCE well after writing was invented. In fact other flood stories were written well before the biblical flood story. Even Gobekli Tepe is suppose to have a reference to a great flood like disaster and they have been dated to around 12 to 14,000 years ago.

The Sumariens who invented writing have a flood myth that goes back before they invented writing. So the very culture that brought writing tell us with that writing that the earth goes back before 6,000 years.

Also the date of writing at 5,500 BCE is the date of writing and not the date of the civilisation that created writing. They also have a long history before they learnt to write that goes back longer than 6,000 years. Many of tthe cuniform tablets are found with well advanced building. So we would expect they took a long time to get to that point first with simple huts and then gradually developing. That would take more than 500 years.

 

[Platte]

I appreciate how those are your beliefs, but they are not shared by all Christians or even a majority of Christians. So I don't really understand why you post with such hubris and without a shred of humility, as if everyone must agree with you.

Scripture warns us against pride. I humbly suggest you pray on that.

You can believe what you want....I will simply tell you what the Bible says. Creation was approximately 6000 years ago - and took God 6 days to complete. If you got a problem with that take it up with Moses...and God.

 

[Job 33:6]

You can believe what you want....I will simply tell you what the Bible says. Creation was approximately 6000 years ago - and took God 6 days to complete. If you got a problem with that take it up with Moses...and God.

The Bible never says how long the earth was formless and empty before God created it;

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Rather, the earth was simply formless and void, when God began to create it.

 

[Platte]

I just gave you links supporting this so how can they be spectulative when they are based on factual evidence. It is welkl known that writing in the form of cuniform writing began about 5,300 years ago.

But we have evidence of glyphs and other forms of communication before writing. If the the earth is only 6000 years old then we would have to squeeze the entire development from no writing to simple cave art to more complex glyths happening within a 500 year period. '

This is impossible as certain levels of development go with each style of communication. So simple cave art is seen within simple hunter gatherers. This is seen in pics of game animals depicted. Then humans become more sophisticated and develop certain architecture that is developed around the same time as glyphs.

First we see basic temples like at Gobekli Tepe where the glyphs are rough and simple right through to Egyptian hyro glyphics which are more complex and on better developed architecture.

All this could not have happened in 500 years.

Of course it could....1524AD - 2024AD - Quite a bit has happeded in that 500 year period wouldn't you say.
Are you assuming that the entire world was at the same level and maintained the same level? We have civilizations today that don't write.

Like I mentioned above theres a whole world of development that happened before writing actually came about. There was even a long period where there was cave art and glyphs let alone the period developing glyphs and other forms of writing.

Moses would have written the biblical books around 1400BCE well after writing was invented. In fact other flood stories were written well before the biblical flood story. Even Gobekli Tepe is suppose to have a reference to a great flood like disaster and they have been dated to around 12 to 14,000 years ago.

The Sumariens who invented writing have a flood myth that goes back before they invented writing. So the very culture that brought writing tell us with that writing that the earth goes back before 6,000 years.

Also the date of writing at 5,500 BCE is the date of writing and not the date of the civilisation that created writing.

The worlds first civilization:

1. Mesopotamia, 4000-3500 B.C.​

Meaning “between two rivers” in Greek, Mesopotamia (located in modern-day Iraq, Kuwait and Syria) is considered the birthplace of civilization.

They also have a long history before they learnt to write that goes back longer than 6,000 years. Many of tthe cuniform tablets are found with well advanced building. So we would expect they took a long time to get to that point first with simple huts and then gradually developing. That would take more than 500 years.

I wouldn't expect it to take long - not sure why you would. I can see what occured between 1524 and 2024.....look what occured between 1890 and 1990....crazy how much can be done. New technology always gets pushed to new heights fast!!!!

 

[Platte]

The Bible never says how long the earth was formless and empty before God created it;

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Rather, the earth was simply formless and void, when God began to create it.

Silly

 

[Job 33:6]

Silly

You can call the Bible silly if you want, but that's what it says:

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

When God began, the earth was formless and void. It doesn't say anything about how long the earth was formless before God began.

Just like if I said: "when I began to ride my bike, it was cold outside".

Ok, that doesn't say anything about how long it was cold outside before I began riding.

 

[Reneep]

First we see basic temples like at Gobekli Tepe ..

Moses would have written the biblical books around 1400BCE well after writing was invented. In fact other flood stories were written well before the biblical flood story. Even Gobekli Tepe is suppose to have a reference to a great flood like disaster and they have been dated to around 12 to 14,000 years ago.

The sad part is you believe in sciences veiw of everything but everything does not believe in your or scientists-ismish ideas of what they think they see. GOBEKLI TEPEI is maybe where Noah built the Ark and gathered the animals ( not my first choice ),.

or where he landed and bred and raised all those baby animals that God brought him.( that one is my first choice,) especially if its elevation is just above and around 1250ft. And so if that's true then also where Noahs offspring disperced the animals clan by clan, wolf clan, bear clan etc boat load by boat load. Sea levels was about 1250 between the two floods. Aka as first Noahs flood , and THEN Turtle Island event.
Turtle Island event IS WHAT GOD CALLED/ reveals as (rev 12 ) and Joshuas long day.

STOP TRYING TO TEAR HIS CHURCH AND HIS INSTRUCTION BOOK APART. A TRUE BELIEVER WHO KNOWS THE GOD OF CREATION , WONT BELIEVE THE NONSENSE. GOD IS A FULL GROWN GOD AND HE DID WHAT HE SAID, and HE IS DOING WHAT HE SAID, AND HE WILL DO WHAT HE SAID. PLEASE LEARN FROM HIM AND STOP FOLLOWING DISTRUCTION. Ps everything we see and science finds now was probably posted noahs flood and probably post Gelgamesh's water event, God buried that hill to preserve it from mankind. Yet they rape and enslaved it now and use it to distoy others souls..

 

[River Jordan]

You can believe what you want....I will simply tell you what the Bible says. Creation was approximately 6000 years ago - and took God 6 days to complete. If you got a problem with that take it up with Moses...and God.

You're still trying to set the stage to where disagreeing with your interpretation is disagreeing with God. You are not God.

 

[Platte]

You can call the Bible silly if you want, but that's what it says:

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

When God began, the earth was formless and void. It doesn't say anything about how long the earth was formless before God began.

Just like if I said: "when I began to ride my bike, it was cold outside".

Ok, that doesn't say anything about how long it was cold outside before I began riding.

What does cold outside have to do with the bike? terrible attempt at an analogy.

I began to paint a picture of my bike - the bike had no color or accessories to it. (I'll add those later). How long did the bike have no color or accessories before I began to paint the picture of my bike? Can you see the silliness in that question?

Create Earth....step 1 - I'll create Earth with no topology (formless) and void of life.....with no topology the earth will be completly covered by water (miles deep). That is the starting point of day 1 and the naturally logical stating point for Creation of Earth to begin.....Step 2 I add form (topology) and the dry land will appear....then I'll starting adding life so that it is no longer void....You may want to switch to the KJV....or another translation that uses the same source text.

Moses didnt give us an ecrypted or tricky account of creation....he gave us a straight forward narrative of it...and tells us that all of creation took 6 days. Nothing existed before those 6 days...If you're confused by that - think about the purpose of God creating the Earth.

 

[Job 33:6]

What does cold outside have to do with the bike? terrible attempt at an analogy.

I began to paint a picture of my bike - the bike had no color or accessories to it. (I'll add those later). How long did the bike have no color or accessories before I began to paint the picture of my bike? Can you see the silliness in that question?

It's more like, When I began to paint my bike, now my bike was colorless. And then I said, let there be blue.

How long was the bike without color before I began painting the bike?

And the answer is, Genesis does not say. Maybe it was colorless for a day beforehand, maybe a week, maybe a month. The text simply doesn't say.

Create Earth....step 1 - I'll create Earth with no topology (formless) and void of life.....with no topology the earth will be completly covered by water (miles deep). That is the starting point of day 1 and the naturally logical stating point for Creation of Earth to begin.....Step 2 I add form (topology) and the dry land will appear....then I'll starting adding life so that it is no longer void....You may want to switch to the KJV....or another translation that uses the same source text.

When I began to paint my bike, is not in and of itself an event. But rather, it's me introducing the narrative.

Moses didnt give us an ecrypted or tricky account of creation

There is nothing encrypted or tricky about this. You just have to read what it says.

Genesis 1:1-2 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

When God began to create the earth, the earth was tohu wa bohu, formless and empty.

It doesn't say how long the earth was formless or empty before God began creating it.

 

[Platte]

It's more like, When I began to paint my bike, now my bike was colorless. And then I said, let there be blue.

How long was the bike without color before I began painting the bike?

And the answer is, Genesis does not say. Maybe it was colorless for a day beforehand, maybe a week, maybe a month. The text simply doesn't say.

No there is no creation involved in just painting a bike.

I began to paint a picture of my bike (I'm creating a picture) - the bike had no color or accessories to it. (I'll add those later). How long did the bike have no color or accessories before I began to paint the picture of my bike? Can you see the silliness in that question?

When I began to paint my bike, is not in and of itself an event. But rather, it's me introducing the narrative.

In the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth....that is an event!!!

 

[Job 33:6]

No there is no creation involved in just painting a bike.

That's what creation is, it's taking what is already there and giving it form (days 1-3) and filling it with animals (4-6) tohu wa bohu.

I began to paint a picture of my bike (I'm creating a picture) - the bike had no color or accessories to it. (I'll add those later). How long did the bike have no color or accessories before I began to paint the picture of my bike? Can you see the silliness in that question?

When I began to paint my bike, or, in the beginning when I painted my bike - the bike had no color (I'll add those during the 6 days). How long did the bike have no color before I began to paint the bike?

The answer is, Genesis doesn't say. We don't know how long the bike had no color before I began painting it.

It's not a silly question to ask at all. it's a perfectly rational question to ask.

What you're arguing is that God painted the bike in verse 1 and then was doing something else over the 6 days. But don't be confused, painting happens in 6 days, not in verse 1.

 

[Job 33:6]

In the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth....that is an event!!!

Genesis 1:1-2 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

When God began to create the heavens and the earth-

Or

In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth -

These are not events. They're introductory to the narrative.

It's like saying "in the beginning I painted my bike" as an intro, then the narrative goes on to tell you the story. It in and of itself is not an event.

That's why so many translations have that big dash after verse 1 "-"

Genesis 1:1-2 LEB
[1] In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth— [2] Now the earth was formless and empty, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

And even a lot of translations where verse 1 ends with a period, you still get verse 2 starting with "And" as a continuation of verse 1:

Genesis 1:1-2 NASB2020
[1] In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. [2] And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

In the beginning when I painted my bike - And my bike was without color - then I said "let there be blue".

The actual events and the actual painting does not begin until verse 3. And we simply aren't told how long the bike (earth) was without color (tohu wa bohu) before God painted (created) it.

And that's the most plain, direct, literal, and straightforward reading of the text.

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSV
[1] In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What does cold outside have to do with the bike? terrible attempt at an analogy.

I began to paint a picture of my bike - the bike had no color or accessories to it. (I'll add those later). How long did the bike have no color or accessories before I began to paint the picture of my bike? Can you see the silliness in that question?

Create Earth....step 1 - I'll create Earth with no topology (formless) and void of life.....with no topology the earth will be completly covered by water (miles deep). That is the starting point of day 1 and the naturally logical stating point for Creation of Earth to begin.....Step 2 I add form (topology) and the dry land will appear....then I'll starting adding life so that it is no longer void....You may want to switch to the KJV....or another translation that uses the same source text.

Moses didnt give us an ecrypted or tricky account of creation....he gave us a straight forward narrative of it...and tells us that all of creation took 6 days. Nothing existed before those 6 days...If you're confused by that - think about the purpose of God creating the Earth.

Moses gave us an ancient account that reflected the thoughts and genres of the people of "his" day. And because God delivered the message fairly late in the progress of human civilization, it remains poetic but cryptic, and it is tricky for us in the 21st century to appreciate.

Moreover, I think we need to be very careful to avoid being dogmatic with how we read the first two verses of chapter 1 since there is no absolute interpretive rule indicating we must take these first verses as being inclusive within 'ONE DAY / DAY ONE.'

 

[BeyondET]

You can believe what you want....I will simply tell you what the Bible says. Creation was approximately 6000 years ago - and took God 6 days to complete. If you got a problem with that take it up with Moses...and God.

The Bible doesn't say it was 6,000 years ago. Scripture doesn't say to count the generations to determine the age of the heavens and earth either.