Pyramids and the flood

[Platte]

Do you actually read what someone like myself has written? Or do you just scan it and hop over every other word thinking you know what the other person is even saying, and why?

I'm not alluding to the "only spin left," as you put it. There is a 'spin' like that, but I don't adhere to it. I just log it away in my files.

And as a historical Maximalist where the Bible is concerned, you might take it into consideration that where uncertainty about the overall authorship of the Pentateuch is debated, I really DO hope it reflects Moses' writing.

Ov course I read everything you say...I, like you, have thoughts but hearing the thoughts of others is important and interesting.

Well originally you said Moses gave us the Creation account....then when I pointed out how Moses provides Historical narratives - clear and not cryptic or poetic - you switched to the "well maybe Moses didnt write it" spin.

Moses was clear - Creation took 6 days in its entirety to complete and occurred approx 6000 years ago. Believing in what Moses taught was a cornerstone of the message of Jesus. Stop doubing yourself of what is taught in Genesis 1-2 - its a clear and not cryptic or poetic Historical narrative of Creation.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Ov course I read everything you say...I, like you, have thoughts but hearing the thoughts of others is important and interesting.

Well originally you said Moses gave us the Creation account....then when I pointed out how Moses provides Historical narratives - clear and not cryptic or poetic - you switched to the "well maybe Moses didnt write it" spin.

Moses was clear - Creation took 6 days in its entirety to complete and occurred approx 6000 years ago. Believing in what Moses taught was a cornerstone of the message of Jesus. Stop doubing yourself of what is taught in Genesis 1-2 - its a clear and not cryptic or poetic Historical narrative of Creation.

Yes, from Moses' own limited paradigm of life, 'Creation' took place only a few thousand years before his own time. That much we can all read and see. If we're historiographically literate, we should expect this to be the case and not be surprised by it, nor by the fact that what he wrote reflected the poetic structures of the A.N.E. people groups who lived during the Bronze Age (or maybe Iron Age) eras.

But there's no interpretive rule that states how we have to read the first chapter of Genesis, which is why we have so many different interpretations of it today. Sure, I think six days are generally six 24 hour periods in the literary narrative of chapter 1, but as others here have already stated, this doesn't mean "Moses'" meant to describe all of the possible vastness of natural history as it actually took place in the past, whether it was thousands or even millions or billions of years ago.

And no one in faith is required to adhere to a dogmatic reading of Genesis 1 either. If you want to read it that way, however, then do so if it's what makes you feel 'safe' in your English reading of the text. Be all means be my guest and feel free to do so and pick a church that also does likewise. I'm not going to poke you in the eye for doing so, brother.

 

[Aaron112]

But there's no interpretive rule that states how we have to read the first chapter of Genesis, which is why we have so many different interpretations of it today.

The source of interpretations is not from above.

 

[River Jordan]

its a clear and not cryptic or poetic Historical narrative of Creation.

Do you usually speak like this?

So God created mankind in his own image,​

in the image of God he created them;​

male and female he created them.​

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The source of interpretations is not from above.

Neither is the canonization of the books of the Bible. But we, being Christians, make our best rational judgment about what to accept.

 

[Aaron112]

Neither is the canonization of the books of the Bible. But we, being Christians, make our best rational judgment about what to accept.

Wrong.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Wrong.

Oh yeah?

Prove it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or get off my back, bro!

 

[Aaron112]

YHVH Says He Did it. i.e. from above. not by man's will, thoughts, or choice.

 

[Platte]

Yes, from Moses' own limited paradigm of life, 'Creation' took place only a few thousand years before his own time. That much we can all read and see. If we're historiographically literate, we should expect this to be the case and not be surprised by it, nor by the fact that what he wrote reflected the poetic structures of the A.N.E. people groups who lived during the Bronze Age (or maybe Iron Age) eras.

But there's no interpretive rule that states how we have to read the first chapter of Genesis, which is why we have so many different interpretations of it today. Sure, I think six days are generally six 24 hour periods in the literary narrative of chapter 1, but as others here have already stated, this doesn't mean "Moses'" meant to describe all of the possible vastness of natural history as it actually took place in the past, whether it was thousands or even millions or billions of years ago.

I think Moses was very clear he was stating days as 24 hours.....and God himself directly clarified if you had any confusion to that in Exodus 20.
You don't have to interpret Genesis - its not making a religious or theological statement - just read it and learn what happened..I didnt ask if you could interpret details about Joseph...just tell me what the Bible says.

And no one in faith is required to adhere to a dogmatic reading of Genesis 1 either. If you want to read it that way, however, then do so if it's what makes you feel 'safe' in your English reading of the text. Be all means be my guest and feel free to do so and pick a church that also does likewise. I'm not going to poke you in the eye for doing so, brother.

The Historical narrative of Creation was written by Moses in his time.....same as the Historical narrative Moses wrote of Joseph. You have no issues with reading the story of Joseph dogmatic - even though written by the same author and for the same reason (to provide a Historical account of events). If you don't believe the words of Moses - how can you believe the words of Jesus? That was from Jesus.

 

[Platte]

Do you usually speak like this?

So God created mankind in his own image,​

in the image of God he created them;​

male and female he created them.​

Thats a pretty clear statement - even repetitive.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I think Moses was very clear he was stating days as 24 hours.....and God himself directly clarified if you had any confusion to that in Exodus 20.
You don't have to interpret Genesis - its not making a religious or theological statement - just read it and learn what happened..I didnt ask if you could interpret details about Joseph...just tell me what the Bible says.

The Historical narrative of Creation was written by Moses in his time.....same as the Historical narrative Moses wrote of Joseph. You have no issues with reading the story of Joseph dogmatic - even though written by the same author and for the same reason (to provide a Historical account of events). If you don't believe the words of Moses - how can you believe the words of Jesus? That was from Jesus.

You've never studied Historiography of the Philosophy of History, have you? Well, just know there's more to know than what you're presently realizing and that nothing you have to offer here will override what hundreds of scholars sitting on my shelves at home (or remaining in my mind from my years at the university), making it all disappear with a wave of your hand.

 

[River Jordan]

Thats a pretty clear statement - even repetitive.

You don't see any rhythmic or poetic elements in that? None?

 

[Platte]

You don't see any rhythmic or poetic elements in that? None?

Not in the sense that it’s not literally meaning what it says.

 

[River Jordan]

You don't have to interpret Genesis

A history of Jewish and Biblical scholarship shows otherwise. It's pretty weird IMO to claim, "Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters" needs zero interpretation.

 

[River Jordan]

Not in the sense that it’s not literally meaning what it says.

If someone is going to relay a historical and scientific account of an event, I hardly think poetry/song is the best way to do it.

The good thing though is this isn't a salvation issue. You read it how you want and I'll read it how I like, and we'll see each other in heaven some day.

 

[Platte]

If someone is going to relay a historical and scientific account of an event, I hardly think poetry/song is the best way to do it.

The good thing though is this isn't a salvation issue. You read it how you want and I'll read it how I like, and we'll see each other in heaven some day.

I’ll accept Moses for what he says. You can twist and turn it anyway you want. What I do know is the Bible says creation took 6 days to complete and occurred about 6000 years ago

 

[Platte]

If someone is going to relay a historical and scientific account of an event, I hardly think poetry/song is the best way to do it.

The good thing though is this isn't a salvation issue.

Salvation? Like when you die you go to Heaven? And live forever with God? If you believe in Jesus?

 

[River Jordan]

I’ll accept Moses for what he says. You can twist and turn it anyway you want. What I do know is the Bible says creation took 6 days to complete and occurred about 6000 years ago

Is there a reason why you don't seem to be able to handle someone having a different view than you, without resorting to insults and accusations?

I have no problem with you reading Genesis differently than me. That's part of the human experience. Why can't you do the same?

 

[River Jordan]

Salvation? Like when you die you go to Heaven? And live forever with God? If you believe in Jesus?

Of course. What other salvation were you thinking of?

 

[Platte]

Is there a reason why you don't seem to be able to handle someone having a different view than you, without resorting to insults and accusations?

I have no problem with you reading Genesis differently than me. That's part of the human experience. Why can't you do the same?

Jesus wasn’t really the son of God. He didn’t really die and come back to life. He didn’t really die for your sins so that you could get salvation and live forever. Do you have problem with me reading the New Testament that way?