Purpose of the sabbath

[HARK!]

My first suspect would be faulty thinking...

Faulty thinking does in fact beget faulty translations, which in turn beget more faulty thinking.

 

[HARK!]

I prefer to quote YHWH's Word...

I thought you were saying that was how you test the spirit...

Have you tested John's words?

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true Elohim, and Yahushua the Messiah, whom thou hast sent.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You might consider this scripture...

Eph 2:

11 Therefore remember that previously you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who previously were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the hostility, which is the Law composed of commandments expressed in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two one new person, in this way establishing peace

This is what I was talking about Carl, you believe Gods' 10 commandments are abolished right which is lawlessness (without law) like some of your friends here? That teaching is not biblical. Are the 10 commandments "contained in ordinances"? (Ephesians 2:15)

 

[HARK!]

This is what I was talking about Carl, you believe Gods' 10 commandments are abolished right which is lawlessness (without law)? Are the 10 commandments "contained in ordinances"?

The wall of separation is dogma. It is not in YHWH's perfect Torah.

I don't know why anyone would limit their search for the recognition of dogma, to the Ten Words alone; when Yahshua our Messiah himself, said that none of YHWH's perfect Torah has passed.

 

[Carl Emerson]

How did John come up with this?

(CLV) Jn 1:1
In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word.

(CLV) Jn 1:2
This was in the beginning toward God.

(CLV) Jn 1:3
All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being.

I don't see this stated in the Pentateuch. The Pharisees reject this statement; as they reject Yahshua as Messiah.

Yahshua confirms this as repeated in the Book of John.

(CLV) Jn 5:45
"Be not supposing that I shall be accusing you to the Father. He who is accusing you to the Father is Moses, on whom you rely.

(CLV) Jn 5:46
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for the writes concerning Me.

(CLV) Jn 5:47
Now if you are not believing his writings, how shall you be believing My declarations?"

The Pharisees believed in the writing of the Pentateuch; but, unlike the rightful Priesthood who were exiled from the Temple, they did not believe in the writings of the Book of Jubilees.

Jubilees 16:26

And he blessed his Creator who had created him in his generation, for He had created him according to His good pleasure; for He knew and perceived that from him would arise the plant of righteousness for the eternal generations, and from him a kodesh seed, so that it should become like Him who had made all things.

MJ Only - Jubilees is Torah According to 4Q266

In this critical area of the Trinity I would not refer to a translation by an author who it is reported did not believe in it.

If you can bring yourself to quote main stream translations and reference the original language if need be, there would be less confusion.

 

[Carl Emerson]

This is what I was talking about Carl, you believe Gods' 10 commandments are abolished right which is lawlessness (without law) like some of your friends here? That teaching is not biblical. Are the 10 commandments "contained in ordinances"? (Ephesians 2:15)

I have already tried to explain my position which is not what you say.

 

[HIM]

In this critical area of the Trinity I would not refer to a translation by an author who it is reported did not believe in it.

If you can bring yourself to quote main stream translations and reference the original language if need be, there would be less confusion.

Prove the translation wrong. We outside of Christ all have issues. Sin is sin. It can be easily shown translational errors in any translations and issues in all translators.
If you can't address the posts you are responding to recant.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I have already tried to explain my position which is not what you say.

What is your position then. Reading your posts you seem to be of the view that God's 10 commandments have been abolished like some of your friends here. That teaching is not biblical according to the scriptures. I have asked you many times now so there is no misunderstandings between us but you continue to ignore my question for clarification. Do you believe God's 10 commandments are abolished like some of your friends do here or not? I simple yes or no would be ok?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Faulty thinking does in fact beget faulty translations, which in turn beget more faulty thinking.

If so, why do yo insist on a translation from one considered a heretic ?

 

[Carl Emerson]

What is your position then. Reading your posts you seem to be of the view that God's 10 commandments have been abolished like some of your friends here. That teaching is not biblical according to the scriptures. I have asked you many times now so there is no misunderstandings between us but you continue to ignore my question for clarification. Do you believe God's 10 commandments are abolished like some of your friends do here or not? I simple yes or no would be ok?

I expressed my position in post #835.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I expressed my position in post #835.

In post # 835 you said...

The Written Law has served an important purpose but for the New Covenant believer, is eclipsed by the Law of the Spirit within. Both remain, because the Spirit uses the Written Law to bring conviction to the unsaved. The saved under the New Covenant have the indwelling Living Word of the author of the Law. This is a much more superior line of communication and is specific to individual circumstances in ways the Written Law never was.

So, if unlike some of your friends here you believe God's law has not been abolished and remains to give us the knowledge of what sin is, which I believe the bible teaches as well, then what excuse do you have for breaking God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20?

 

[Carl Emerson]

I don't need an excuse...

The Law still has a function to bring the unsaved to conviction.

However the Law is eclipsed by the indwelling presence of the Author of the Law who leads us in righteousness by His living Word within.

While in Israel I observed the Shabbat as a matter of respect - in fact I had rocks thrown at me in Mea Shearim for carrying a bag on Shabbat by mistake. It was safer to observe than not.

I have also explained my position on Sabbath Rest being perpetual for the believer who enters His Rest. His invitation to enter His Rest remains for all time and is not linked to a calendar day. This means He is resting outside of chronological time and we can by faith partake of His rest continuously. In the same way we experience eternal life now if we truely believe.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Something to pray about...

 

[HIM]

I have already tried to explain my position which is not what you say.

Do you know what the LXX is and when it was written? Do you know in it the Greek word Dogma is not used to translate the Hebrew words for Commandment, laws, or statutes.

Shabbat shalom,


That would be my second suspect. I found that my faulty interpretations were most often founded in faulty translations. As a teenager, these seeming contradictions prompted my search for the truth.

Have you ever seen the Cepher translation. I came across it this morning and downloaded it. It is free on e-sword.
Cepher™ | 3rd Edition 2021 | Free Shipping Available

 

[klutedavid]

This is what I was talking about Carl, you believe Gods' 10 commandments are abolished right which is lawlessness (without law) like some of your friends here? That teaching is not biblical. Are the 10 commandments "contained in ordinances"? (Ephesians 2:15)

The ten commandments are the law and Gentiles are not under the law.

Romans 4:15
For the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

 

[klutedavid]

The Bible must be considered in it's entirety at times. Please read the response below.




So what Law, Word is in the heart through Christ?

The Engrafted Word which is the Law of Liberty. Which includes and is not limited to The Royal law (love thy neighbor) and the ten commandments, the whole Law, in which we will be judged by.

James explicitly states what laws are in those whom hear God. Follow along please

Let us not be tempted, drawn away by our own Lust, bringing forth sin unto death. For every good gift and perfect gift cometh down from the Father of lights, us. We are Begotten by the word of truth, receive with meekness the engrafted word, the PERFECT gift.

Being Begotten of the word. Be doers of the engrafted word not hearers only deceiving ourselves. For we are Begotten so don't forget who we are when Looking into a mirror at the perfect law of Liberty. Who we now are, the first fruits of His creatures. Begotten through the engrafted word and continue therein when we goeth our way.

Be a doer of the work and we will be blessed in the deeds. Being Begotten with the engrafted Word, The Royal Law, the Whole Law, the Law of Liberty in which we will be judged.



Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jas 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
Jas 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Jas 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
It was only 15 lines of commentary. Our first response was no. Sorry I thought you were being facetious.
If we become transgressors by breaking the ten commandments, the whole law, the royal law and we will be Judged by the Law of Liberty, the engrafted Word which begots us as the first fruit. Then the engrafted word, the Law of Liberty is the royal Law, the ten commandments, the whole law in which we will be judged.

I don't think we are judged. We are judged during our Christian lives but are not subject to a final judgement.

 

[HIM]

I don't need an excuse...

The Law still has a function to bring the unsaved to conviction.

However the Law is eclipsed by the indwelling presence of the Author of the Law who leads us in righteousness by His living Word within.

While in Israel I observed the Shabbat as a matter of respect - in fact I had rocks thrown at me in Mea Shearim for carrying a bag on Shabbat by mistake. It was safer to observe than not.

I have also explained my position on Sabbath Rest being perpetual for the believer who enters His Rest. His invitation to enter His Rest remains for all time and is not linked to a calendar day. This means He is resting outside of chronological time and we can by faith partake of His rest continuously. In the same way we experience eternal life now if we truely believe.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Something to pray about...

The Law, Gods Word, His Commandments is in the heart and mind. It is now part of who we are through Christ through.

So what Law, Word is in the heart through Christ?

The Engrafted Word which is the Law of Liberty. Which includes The Royal law (love thy neighbor) and the ten commandments, the whole Law, in which we will be judged by.

James explicitly states what laws are in those whom hear God. Follow along please

Let us not be tempted, drawn away by our own Lust, bringing forth sin unto death. For every good gift and perfect gift cometh down from the Father of lights, us. We are Begotten by the word of truth, receive with meekness the engrafted word, the PERFECT gift.

Being Begotten of the word Be doers of the engrafted word not hearers only deceiving ourselves. For we are Begotten so don't forget who we are when Looking into a mirror at the perfect law of Liberty, Who we now are through the engrafted word and continue therein when we goeth our way.

Be a doer of the work and we will be blessed in the deeds. Being Begotten with the engrafted Word, The Royal Law, the Whole Law, the Law of Liberty in which we will be judged.

If we become transgressors by breaking the ten commandments, the whole law, the royal law and we will be Judged by the Law of Liberty, the engrafted Word which begots us as the first fruit. Then the engrafted word, the Law of Liberty is the royal Law, the ten commandments, the whole law in which we will be judged.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jas 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
Jas 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Jas 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[HIM]

I don't think we are judged. We are judged during our Christian lives but are not subject to a final judgement.

It does not matter what we think in respect to what is true. God's word says we are. He has made His word, His Law, His Commandments part of who we are. In this Our conscience will bear witness through it in the day the God will Judge the secrets of men.

So what Law, Word is in our heart through Christ in which we will be judged?

The Engrafted Word which is the Law of Liberty. Which includes The Royal law (love thy neighbor) and the ten commandments, the whole Law, in which we will be judged by.

James explicitly states what laws are in those whom hear God. Follow along please

Let us not be tempted, drawn away by our own Lust, bringing forth sin unto death. For every good gift and perfect gift cometh down from the Father of lights, us. We are Begotten by the word of truth, receive with meekness the engrafted word, the PERFECT gift.

Being Begotten of the word Be doers of the engrafted word not hearers only deceiving ourselves. For we are Begotten so don't forget who we are when Looking into a mirror at the perfect law of Liberty, Who we now are through the engrafted word and continue therein when we goeth our way.

Be a doer of the work and we will be blessed in the deeds. Being Begotten with the engrafted Word, The Royal Law, the Whole Law, the Law of Liberty in which we will be judged.

If we become transgressors by breaking the ten commandments, the whole law, the royal law and we will be Judged by the Law of Liberty, the engrafted Word which begots us as the first fruit. Then the engrafted word, the Law of Liberty is the royal Law, the ten commandments, the whole law in which we will be judged.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jas 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
Jas 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Jas 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[HARK!]

If so, why do yo insist on a translation from one considered a heretic ?

It the most accurate translation that I have found; but I haven't found the heresy of Oneness in even the most heretical translations.

 

[HARK!]

However the Law is eclipsed by the indwelling presence of the Author of the Law who leads us in righteousness by His living Word within.

Who would this be? Please provide scripture.

 

[HARK!]

The ten commandments are the law and Gentiles are not under the law.

Romans 4:15
For the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

You might want to back up and read this letter again.

(CLV) Ro 2:12
for whoever sinned without law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.