Public Apology from Erwin

[cameocat]

Also, I think more effort should be put into enforcing rules fairly across the board.

I was party to a case where a person in Denomination-Y said that the lead bishop of Denomination-X wasn't recognized as a bishop by DY because he teaches heresy. She said this in the DY congregation forum, and received a warning and a three-week suspension.

Around the same time, a person in DX proclaimed that the people of DY had committed heresy. He did this in the DX congregation forum.

Not a DARNED THING happened to him. I reported that post personally and it was NEVER touched.

Maybe it's because DX has a much larger representation among members and staff, or because the offending DX member happens to also be a senior staff member. I just think it was really unfair for the poor Denomination Y member who spent three weeks in the leper colony!

This is beginning to sound like The Inquisition is happening again.

 

[LibertyChic]

This is beginning to sound like The Inquisition is happening again.

These sorts of things tend to come in cycles. I just blame it on the moon.

 

[Illuminatus]

This is beginning to sound like The Inquisition is happening again.

 

[Plan 9]

 

[Plan 9]

So what are we members going to do in turn to make things easier for Dr. Loh and the staff?

 

[Matrona]

So what are we members going to do in turn to make things easier for Dr. Loh and the staff?

Is there anything we can do that would really help, though? I can't think of anything.

 

[drstevej]

In this post, I will speak for myself only... and my response is a composite response and not a response to any one appeal or appellant...

I make handling appeals in a timely manner a priority. If there is a delay in responding back it is usually due to the time needed to consult with others who may not be readily available (staff are, after all, part-time and often have many other life issues to handle).

I seek to respond to the appellant in a respectful manner and expect the same in return. The Forum rules are very clear that flames are not allowed. I expect that rule to be honored.

It is most helpful when the appellant gives me a succinct summary post in addition to other information they desire to communicate to me. This is kinda like a closing argument.

My goal is to bring a fresh pair of eyes to the appeal and render a ruling that I believe is just and consistent with CF rules. I realize the apellant and mod being appealed will not always agree with my conclusion, but there is provision for redress in either case.

I do not feel compelled to answer every detail raised in the appeal. I do read them and consider them. I seek to give a reasonable yet not exhaustive explanation with my ruling.

If my ruling is appealed I respect the right of my supervisor, upon considering the facts, to overturn my ruling. I expect that to happen from time to time.

No system (this one or the next one) will be perfect; but my goal is to do my part to make it work as the owner of this website intends.

I appreciate the many kind responses I have received from members as well as your tactful yet constructive critiques.

It is a privledge to serve here at CF... and this has been....

my 2 cents

 

[Plan 9]

Is there anything we can do that would really help, though? I can't think of anything.

I think there are lots of things we could do as members to make their jobs easier.

The first thing we could do as CF's membership is to be far more considerate to the staff and to one another.
I know you aren't one to be disrespectful to other members, but a great deal of flaming does take place, and if most members here would make a real attempt (myself included) to comport ourselves with minimal courtesy, our staff wouldn't be in a neverending battle to make us behave, treating us like children because we act like children. Surely that effort exhausts their patience and takes up far too much of their time, making it much, much harder to deal with more complex stuations in which some of us may actually have adult concerns.

 

[Love&Pain]

Thank you Erwin. I am glad that you have addressed the problem. You are a great leader because you take on the responsibility of many people. It must be hard to keep track of what every mod is doing.

I agree that some posts are being deleted when they shouldn't be. My post was deleted for posting several scriptures in response to a thread about homosexual priests in the Catholic forum. The reason the mod deleted it was because I posted a scripture on how it is immoral to perform in homosexual acts. I appealed it then I decided to close it. I do not agree with it because they could have at least told me to edit my post and not delete my post because of one scripture.

Noone is perfect and we all can learn from our mistakes.

 

[Jet Black]

Is there anything we can do that would really help, though? I can't think of anything.

being more christ like might do well ... warnings would zoom to 0 then. It is quite possible to disagree with someone and think about what they say, understand their position and so on without being insulting. also considering what one types before one posts is a good plan. I admit I am guilty of not following my own advice on this sometimes, but then, aren't we all?

 

[Matrona]

The first thing we could do as CF's membership is to be far more considerate to the staff and to one another.

Yeah, but if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

 

[mycatspice]

In practice, it turns into this:

Lowly Member: I got a warning for such and such from this this moderator, I don't think I deserve it and here's why, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Overworked Senior Moderator: I'll have a look at this when I have time.

[a few days later]

Overworked Senior Moderator: Okay, I've looked this over. Appeal Granted/Denied.

[Moderator locks thread]

As you can see, this doesn't really fit that bill, the member gets to say her bit but the moderator doesn't really discuss anything with the member, they just acknowledge it, then grant or deny the appeal.

I've tried to circumvent this by writing especially long and detailed appeals, but I think all I've managed to do by that is annoy the moderators I'm appealing to. Sometimes, in their responses, they've asked questions I answered in the original appeal, leading me to believe they didn't even read the darned thing, which is very disheartening.

It would be really nice if there were Appeal-Writing Guidelines set up so that we could know what the moderators want/need to hear about and what they don't.

Yeah, that happened to me. I was giving feedback on a mod, then the senior mod locked the thread, said it was a misunderstanding, told me that I wasn't appealing so there was nothing he would do, and then he wouldn't reply to a PM reguarding the matter [even though it says if you have questions, PM me]. I guess he was too good for us lowly site-supporters to apologize and communicate afterwards. That is my only real complaint with CF, it's really a great site otherwise.

 

[Plan 9]

Yeah, but if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

Matrona, I know what you mean, but the majority of us appear to be out-patient and even have jobs and families, and so are presumably capable of employing the kind of minimal courtesy here that they must do in real life in order remain that way.
If we members who care about CF being a nice place to belong to were to apply a little negative reinforcement when others act out in appalingly rude ways, perhaps we could save the mods a great deal of irritating and tiring work by exerting a little peer pressure on our own?

 

[Matrona]

If we members who care about CF being a nice place to belong to were to apply a little negative reinforcement when others act out in appalingly rude ways, perhaps we could save the mods a great deal of irritating and tiring work by exerting a little peer pressure on our own?

I've been doing that... I report bad posts when I see them, and try to present a clear and concise argument on why it breaks the rules if it isn't knife-in-your-head obvious. Posting a response alongside that is considered bad form here because things can turn into a flame war from there, especially if no moderator comes online for a few hours.

 

[Plan 9]

I've been doing that... I report bad posts when I see them, and try to present a clear and concise argument on why it breaks the rules if it isn't knife-in-your-head obvious. Posting a response alongside that is considered bad form here because things can turn into a flame war from there, especially if no moderator comes online for a few hours.

Believe me, I'm aware that I'm preaching to the choir when I discuss this with you.
I agree that peer pressure must be exerted carefully, or not at all. But bad form, no matter what? I don't understand why that would be so; I've seen it work, both here and at other boards.
However, I've started a thread to see if the Erwin and the staff have any suggestions to offer, since they're most likely to know what might help them.
http://www.christianforums.com/t1772697-staff-what-can-we-members-do-to-make-your-jobs-easier.html
I sure hope I get a response.

 

[A4C]

An example of a wrongful action by CF staff occurred when somebody known to me spoke against an unholy action that was openly practised and supported by many here including CF staff. The member was banned for speaking out and had no way to protest his innocence or present his case until a third person was able to on his behalf. An apology was then made and he was reinstated only to be banned again for 12 months when again mentioning an apparently banned scripture verse in front of a noncomplying staff. As I understand it the previous wrongful warnings were not deleted when the original apology was given so he still has to serve out the rest of what is now a second year of isolation from a Christian fellowship simply for upholding the Word of God.
To put the matter in context it is like spaking out about abortion for instance. The trouble for that person comes when staff are offended by that member perhaps because they themslves support abortion and twist scripture to try and convince others that it is OK. Well God says it is not OK and no matter what is said to try to tell God otherwise is not going to change what His Word says God never changes whether He said it yesterday or 2000 years or even 4000 years ago.
You might think the person is a rebellious person who is come here to cause havoc, well let me tell you that he is a fine upstanding christian citizen, family oriented, who ministers to the sick and needy and has other church functions. As for allegience to his website the legacy of his dedication to it still remains today nearly 2 years after his initial wrongful banning whereas those who were responsible for it have faded into the background
Do I think this forum needs an overhaul YES if things like this can happen something is very wrong

 

[Shannonkish]

I would tend to agree with those that have discussed the current "problem" with the appeals forum. I realize that I am not thought of highly by a good majority of the staff here, and that is fine, however, I do believe that the current appeals system is not really any better than the old system.

Let me explain a little further.

I was given a warning, appeal was denied, the thread locked. After about a week of trying to explain my case via PM, I finally caught certain parties on AIM and hashed out the issues via PM. It was a misunderstanding. We all realized it, we worked through it and the problem was resolved.

However, had I not been able to hash it out with them, and help them realize my "side" of the story, I would still unjustly have a warning for which there was no real warrant for.

I also know of several others that have been in similar predictaments.

Simply put, the current system doesn't allow for discussion, but rather, a state your case in one post or less, staff discuss the case behind closed doors, a decision is reached, the thread is closed. That isn't a discussion.

 

[Petunia]

Consider my site subscription renewed!

Mine too.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

So what are we members going to do in turn to make things easier for Dr. Loh and the staff?

Luke 17:3
So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.

Matthew 18:20-22
20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" 22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

 

[PACKY]

I being one of the more Vocal on the subject want to thank Dr.loh for his fairness and intent to change CF. And to the Mods. there are many of you who are very fair and do a GREAT job, Its the few that made this situation come to a head with the membership.
Thanks again