Prove me wrong: modesty/skin exposure

[blackhole]

Not true. There is a reason Arabs and cowboys keep themselves fully covered.

Did you see in the shade?

When I'm in the shade, I feel much cooler with exposed skin.

 

[Archivist]

Wouldn't their men also be better off going butt naked? Yet many don't do that.

And BTW, why aren't you speaking up for full nudity being ok for Christians? There's nothing in the bible that says it isn't ok, and it gets awful hot in the Summer, at least in the USA, so we'd all be "better off".

But according to the OP the thread isn’t about anyone going naked, it is about women going topless.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You are seriously comparing sleeping around to exposed female breasts? Really?

Oh, and I would love to get an answer to you to the questions I posed in post 226.

No, of course not, it was an example of sin.

I’m sorry, but don’t men have to take responsibility if they have issues with list?

Assuming that's the question, I think that's one, if not the main reason women aren't allowed to go topless today in the USA. So yes they have to take responsibly, and not alloying the sex parts of the woman's body to hang out in public is definitely a step in the right direction.

I can't imagine some of you don't get that??

 

[Kenny'sID]

But according to the OP the thread isn’t about anyone going naked, it is about women going topless.

Oh, half naked is ok, I see.

Do you all have even one viable argument?

 

[Archivist]

No, of course not, it was an example of sin.

So it is a sin to have a nice house or wear nice clothing or serve good food?

Assuming that's the question, I think that's one, if not the main reason women aren't allowed to go topless today in the USA. So yes they have to take responsibly, and not alloying the sex parts of the woman's body to hang out in public is definitely a step in the right direction.

Except at one time it was illegal for either sex to go topless. Men just started ignoring the laws so they were repealed. So now you just want to put all the blame on the women. The men who would star at a topless woman on a breach are doing nothing wrong

I can't imagine some of you don't get that??

And I can’t imagine why you want to discriminate against women.

 

[FireDragon76]

Except it's not just one missionary. Actually I'm comfortable with stating the vast majority feel just as I do, it's a sin for women to run around topless in public.

How could it be sinful in a hot, humid, tropical environment? The only reason to wear clothing in that environment would be to protect one from the sun if one had fair skin.

 

[Archivist]

Oh, half naked is ok, I see.

So is a man wearing a bathing suit also half naked? BTW, have you ever exposed your chest at a pool or beach?

Do you all have even one viable argument?

Plenty starting with the fact that the Bible doesn’t condemn a woman going topless.

 

[fhansen]

I believe that Scripture cannot be used to defend the West's viewpoint that it's sinful for women to be publicly topless.

I want to challenge my viewpoint, and the quality of my arguments.
Prove me wrong, using scripture or rationality that's based on Christian principles in order to do so.

The burden of proof lies with the one asserting a positive, therefore you get to argue first.

It's not inherently sinful for anyone to go completely naked for that matter. That's how God made us after all. But fallen humans deal with shame of self and we also lack full moral integrity meaning less than full control of our appetites and desires.

Therefore wisdom dictates that we remain covered, hidden; innocence can never be fully restored in this life no matter how we try, no matter how we fake it. Even God fashioned clothes for man from animal skins after the Fall

 

[blackhole]

It's not inherently sinful for anyone to go completely naked for that matter. That's how God made us after all. But fallen humans deal with shame of self and we also lack full moral integrity meaning less than full control of our appetites and desires.

Therefore wisdom dictates that we remain covered, hidden; innocence can never be fully restored in this life no matter how we try, no matter how we fake it. Even God fashioned clothes for man from animal skins after the Fall

The only major problem I have is with our declaration of which areas must be hidden.

 

[Kenny'sID]

How could it be sinful in a hot, humid, tropical environment? The only reason to wear clothing in that environment would be to protect one from the sun if one had fair skin.

The same way it can be sinful anywhere. Environment doesn't make something not sinful, your comment makes no sense at all. It gets hot in the 'USA in the dead of summer as well but public nudity is still a sin.

The logic here is uncanny.

 

[Kenny'sID]

So is a man wearing a bathing suit also half naked? BTW, have you ever exposed your chest at a pool or beach?

No, he is showing no parts used in sex. Yes, of course I have...so?

Plenty starting with the fact that the Bible doesn’t condemn a woman going topless.

Are you kidding?

Timothy 2:9

New International Version
I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,

The bible doesn't condemn a man or woman going bottomless either...yet.

If you think a woman with no top is dressed modestly, your in denial and wasting mine and your time both.

 

[blackhole]

I think this sums the thread:

Opponents:
Toplessness is nudity.

Supporters:
Give evidence for the conflation.

Opponents:
It creates lust, so it's a sin.

Supporters:
Other things create temptation, explain why those are allowed.

Opponents:
XXX <-- This is how much lust it creates!

Supporters:
Why are nice cars (etc) allowed?

Opponents:
You're blind! Any fool would understand this.

 

[blackhole]

No, he is showing no parts used in sex. Yes, of course I have...so?



Are you kidding?

Timothy 2:9

New International Version
I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,

The bible doesn't condemn a man or woman going bottomless either...yet.

If you think a woman with no top is dressed modestly, your in denial and wasting mine and your time both.

All of that was addressed previously.

 

[Kenny'sID]

So it is a sin to have a nice house or wear nice clothing or serve good food?

No, your point?

And I can’t imagine why you want to discriminate against women.

Do you think me should be able to go bottomless?

Considering the fact public nudity is illegal in the USA, if discrimination is what you choose to call it, then I have the whole country on my side. However, I don't call keeping a man from going bottomless and a woman from going topless, discrimination, just good sense.

 

[Kenny'sID]

All of that was addressed previously.

Are you actually saying because someone said it wasn't so, I should just change my mind? I don't care if it was addressed.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Opponents:
You're blind! Any fool would understand this.

I don't mind such comments, but there are vindictive people here that will report you for such at that. So for now and future reference, be careful.

 

[blackhole]

Are you actually saying because someone said it wasn't so, I should just change my mind? I don't care if it was addressed.

So, it's a shouting match? I disbelieve what you have to say. NO, I DISBELIEVE WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY! AND I DISBELIEVE MORE STRONGLY!

You can say you disagree and keep pushing the same agenda, but unless you provide evidence to support your disagreement, it's just a shouting match.

 

[blackhole]

I don't mind such comments, but there are vindictive people here that will report you for such at that. So for now and future reference, be careful.

I never said that about anyone here. I'm on the supporter side; I'm reiterating the basics of what some others have said to me.

 

[Cis.jd]

We can't just judge every action as a sin because it depends on what the motives are.

If a woman is going around topless just for the sake of attracting others in a sexual way or because they are a celebrity trying to become (or keep relevant) a sex symbol, then yes it's a sin. This is already vanity and lust going in.

However if you are going out topless because you are doing it for political reasons ("ex:well men go around topless") then you are just a high-level SJW leftist feminist liberal". The reason is more due to a low IQ and how much of a whiner she is.

If it's due to environmental conditions.. then it's likely a norm for them.

Another possible reason is that the person is drunk or crazy.

 

[Peter J Barban]

Ah yes, everyone who doesn’t share your beliefs on the subject is immature. Well, I’m a mature believer and I see nothing wrong with women going topless. When modesty is discussed in scripture it is in reference to overdressing—wearing braided hair and jewels—not underdressing.

Have you ever gone topless in public? Many women find a well-proportioned male chest to be sexually attractive.

It's amazing that, in your maturity, you dispute with the vast majority of believers over the meaning of women's modesty. We have spoken in the Bible and throughout Judeo-Christian history that your position is incorrect.

We are left to wonder why your small minority claims superior understanding over all of us.

Such an attitude is not consistent with spiritual maturity. Instead, it is consistent with spiritual pride.

Wisdom says: There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death. (Proverbs 14:12)