Pro-Choice?

[Zeena]

Ima getting der!

Patience grasshoppa!

 

[Zeena]

Until you can prove that God himself considers a fetus to be a child

I will post Scriptural references with direct links within words, sentances and paragraphs, as I'm sure you can [please] look them up youself? This will make the post within the confines of the post limit

Some external links are supplied, onces in which no pop ups were found intruding on our computers that is-heh

The external links are merley a means to clarify in-depth studies within a marginal text reference.

Thank you!

Ok, here we go!

God created man by breathing in his nostrils the breath of Life, and man became a living soul. meaning God's breath that He intitally gives to man, if God were to withdrawl His breath all flesh would perish and the spirit of creation would return unto God. He has Life in Himself. Spirit life

As well, there is life in the blood, The Life is in the blood, meaning soul, as an archtype. For Jesus poured out His blood, and it is written He poured out His soul. Soul Life

There'e also natural life, but we won't get into that here.. Body Life

I'm not that versed in Hebrew, but that's my best assumption laid down an the table for ya

This I know, however, and it is Scripturally sound as well [from the above links supplied]. God created man in His own image.. And thus as Christians we believe in The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, a triune being, and man is created in that image.

Fetus, babies who are created by God are a gift from God for, not only the maturity of the expectant mother, but the edification of the family unit as a whole.

God knows us from the womb, as He is the giver of Life to to all creation!

Babies breath in womb the breath of God, who give life to all men [as previously noted]. And, since Life is in the breath that God gives to mankind, that baby is alive! And since He has created it as a gift unto mankind it aught not to be abused or shoved aside!

and holds pro-life morals

God loves everybody. Sure He does not see everyone as His Son, for none are except Jesus and whosoever should recieve His Life. He desires only good things for mankind, which is why He sent His Son to rescue us from ourselves and from the clutches of the enemy.

God is always working toward the benifit of His creation.
And we, as Christians are waiting patiently for Him to take us home, but this will nto happen until all things have been said and done.

you have no right to imply that he does. People do that sort of thing all too often these days: assuming that their deity holds the exact same morals that they do and twisting around verses from their holy book in order to "prove it."

He is the creator, I am the created!
I don't presume to speak for Him, for He has given us everything thing we need already! Both in the Scriptures & His Son.

Frankly, I think that, if there is a God, he's more [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed with the people who misrepresent his word than the people who go against it just because they have no reason to think that the deity will be angry at them for doing so. Of course not

I would think so too, I would also be so bold as to put ignorance up there on that list as well-heh

But until you can show me a Bible verse that explicitly states that the killing of an unborn child through medical means is wrong and bad, I will have no reason to think that your god believes such is true.

I'm not here to reason with you, God is there for you. I am contending for my brother however, and the mistrepresentation of the Lord's Name he has blatently put forth in front of unbelievers.

Sorry. I guess I didn't word that clearly enough (which makes sense, since it's currently 3:08 AM where I am and I'm half-asleep). What I meant to say was that the KKK twists Bible verses around just as much as pro-lifers do.

In actuality anyone can and will twist Scripture to suite thier motive as long as they are walking after the flesh..

It's in the realization that we died with Christ that the motive disappears, and in the hope of eternal Life in Christ Jesus that HIS motive appears all too real!

Now..

I didn't post one sylabol or one letter words, I posted, if anything complete sentances and paragraphs, as well as complete referances within external links. I hope you do not construde this as taking Scripture out of context..

**I'm going to go to bed now, but I'll reply to your next reply (assuming that you read this post before you yourself head off to bed) after I wake up. Have a good night. **

Oh my! It's nearly time for me to wake up! :LOL:

Hope you slept well!

 

[KomissarSteve]

Babies breath in womb the breath of God,

The article linked to this phrase says that babies don't "breathe" in-utero.

None of the verses you posted state that God views fetuses as human beings. The ONLY verse that remotely pertains to how God views fetuses is the Jeremiah 1:5 verse, and that is clearly referring to the fact that God knows all, past and future, and has destined those of us to be what we're destined to be long before we were born.

 

[Zeena]

I must say, Zeena, you're coming off awfully troll-like with that statement '[which, btw, is not true, as Christians we (may) sin, but are saints]' - and it contradicts everything I've ever heard a Christian say. You are mortal like any other, no better than the rest; and every Christian I've spoken to has claimed that they are no better. They sin and err like any other man, and seek salvation. They are not 'better', they just claim to know who to ask for help.

I'm not better, but JESUS is, and He Lives in me!

 

[Zeena]

The article linked to this phrase says that babies don't "breathe" in-utero.

The very last paragraph explains that babies do indeed intake oxygen.

None of the verses you posted state that God views fetuses as human beings. The ONLY verse that remotely pertains to how God views fetuses is the Jeremiah 1:5 verse, and that is clearly referring to the fact that God knows all, past and future, and has destined those of us to be what we're destined to be long before we were born.

They breath, and Life is in the breath!
[As SCRIPTURALLY backed by my initial rebut]

 

[KomissarSteve]

The very last paragraph explains that babies do indeed intake oxygen.

Yes, but you originally said "breath" (or perhaps meant "breathe"?). And I pointed out that babies don't breathe, as that article pointed out.

They breath, and Life is in the breath!
[As SCRIPTURALLY backed by my initial rebut]

Where do the Scriptures state that they are humans? I'm not asking if fetuses are alive; I'm asking where the Scriptures say/imply that fetuses are human beings.

I'm getting rather tired of asking this, by the way, and if you don't actually give me a clear answer in your next post or two, I'm going to put you on my ignore list.

 

[Zeena]

Genesis 7:15
And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Ezekiel 37:6
And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

 

[KomissarSteve]

Genesis 7:15
And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
Ezekiel 37:6
And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Where do these verses say that fetuses are humans?

(edited for emphasis placed on "humans")

 

[Zeena]

Yes, but you originally said "breath" (or perhaps meant "breathe"?). And I pointed out that babies don't breathe, as that article pointed out.

Ok, here the exact referance from that article.

All oxygenated blood is being provided by mom and
sent through the umbilical cord.

Where do the Scriptures state that they are humans? I'm not asking if fetuses are alive; I'm asking where the Scriptures say/imply that fetuses are human beings.

What, did you think they were some sort of alien or somthing?!? Get real? Now you're telling me as a Christian you don't believe in human nature? Jeremiah spoke of it when he said he was sinful from the womb

As well, God does say here that we are sons of our mothers from the womb;

Isaiah 49:15
Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

I'm getting rather tired of asking this, by the way, and if you don't actually give me a clear answer in your next post or two, I'm going to put you on my ignore list.

Asking what, that human thing? Tis the first time I've heard it issue from your being.. To say a human being is something other than a human being is just.. just.. well it just ain't right to think of a child as something other than human! Unless of course you think we all come from apes, well then, that might be reason to think otherwise..

Go ahead, run away from the truth, but He'll catch you!

Leviticus 24:17
"If anyone takes the life of a human being, he must be put to death."

Lamentations 3:13
He pierced my heart with arrows from his quiver.

Luke 2:35
(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

 

[KomissarSteve]

What, did you think they were some sort of alien or somthing?!? Get real?

"Human" or "alien" aren't the only two options; I tend to think that "fetus" is its own option.

Now you're telling me as a Christian you don't believe in human nature?

I said nothing of the sort; don't strawman. I don't believe that human nature begins until the baby is born and thus begins its life as a human.

As well, God does say here that we are sons of our mothers from the womb;

That verse says "Son of the womb." It also says, " Can a woman forget her sucking child?" Clearly it's referring to the time after the son is born, because I don't know of too many suckling fetuses.

[quote[Asking what, that human thing? Tis the first time I've heard it issue from your being.[/quote]

Only if you haven't been reading my posts:

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=31441121&postcount=84
http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=31441344&postcount=87
http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=31428965&postcount=72

To say a human being is something other than a human being is just.. just.. well it just ain't right to think of a child as something other than human!

I agree. Luckily, I'm not doing that; I'm thinking of a fetus as something other than a human.

Unless of course you think we all come from apes, well then, that might be reason to think otherwise..

Nobody believe we "came from apes"; a lot of people do think we shared a common ancestor with apes.

Go ahead, run away from the truth, but He'll catch you!

I'm still waiting for you to show me that it's the truth, through Scriptural reference.

And the references you posted after that are about killing humans, not fetuses; they don't apply.

 

[Zeena]

That means mom is breathing, not the fetus.

It means the fetus is breathing through Mom

Just like a tree breathes through it's leaves

Cellular Respiration a post by a medical organization

I have shown how, Medically & SCRIPTURALLY that Life consists of breath, and that babies do recive that Life, from God!

I never had intention of playing some sort of game where I post by your, nor anyone elses rules. But with the intent to show that the Life of babies is God-Given, and that for a Christian to say otherwise is a lie!

You've provided scripture that doesn't deal with fetuses, abortion, or even pregnancy... I don't see how that's "truth."

I did for the most part, I was merely speaking with my brother in that last regard.

 

[KomissarSteve]

It means the fetus is breathing through Mom

No, no it really doesn't. It means that the fetus is taking oxygen in through its umbilical cord, but its lungs aren't working. For it to be "breathing," your lungs have to be involved.

Just like a tree breathes through it's leaves

A tree doesn't breathe; it absorbs carbon dioxide through photosynthesis.

I have shown how, SCRIPTURAL definition of Life consists of breath, and that babies do recive that Life, from God!

If that's what it takes to constitute life, then you can't even argue that fetuses are alive, much less humans. Babies don't "breathe."

\I never had intention of playing some sort of game where I post by your, nor anyone elses rules.

They're the "rules" of logic. Sane people use them.

 

[Zeena]

[quote[Asking what, that human thing? Tis the first time I've heard it issue from your being.

Only if you haven't been reading my posts:

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=31441121&postcount=84
http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=31441344&postcount=87
http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=31428965&postcount=72 [/quote]

Nothing before the fact less one measly post, which I answered to my earliest opportunity. The last link you posted contains nothing of asking why a human is human that I can see..

Please don't think I'm ignoring you, you're the sole reason I'm here! =P

 

[Zeena]

No, no it really doesn't. It means that the fetus is taking oxygen in through its umbilical cord, but its lungs aren't working. For it to be "breathing," your lungs have to be involved.

For breathing your lungs do not have to involved!
http://www.elmcare.com/trees/how_trees_breathe.htm
Did you even read the link I supplied the the post you quoted?
It's from a MEDICAL SOCIETY! :LOL:

 

[HannahBanana]

It means the fetus is breathing through Mom

No, it means the fetus is gaining oxygen through its mother, much like tapeworms gain oxygen from their hosts. The action of breathing by the fetus is not possible during the first trimester, since its lungs are nowhere near developed enough for that act.

Just like a tree breathes through it's leaves

Cellular Respiration a post by a medical organization

That action might be called "respiration" but, since it does not involve lungs, it does not fit the definition of breathing.

I have shown how, Medically & SCRIPTURALLY that Life consists of breath, and that babies do recive that Life, from God!

So, since trees can respirate as well, is it safe to say that God wouldn't want us humans to cut them down like we are? Or what about cows? They breathe, too. Yet I don't see all that many Christians who are opposed to eating beef. What makes one form of life okay to kill, but another not?

 

[HannahBanana]

For breathing your lungs do not have to involved!
http://www.elmcare.com/trees/how_trees_breathe.htm
Did you even read the link I supplied the the post you quoted?
It's from a MEDICAL SOCIETY! :LOL:

Oh, so you'd actually say that trees breathe, then? You'd say to your friends "Hmm...that tree doesn't look like it's breathing quite enough?" Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't quite sound right. Let's look at the definition of the word "breathe":

Main Entry: breathe
Pronunciation: 'brE[th]
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): breathed; breath·ing
Etymology: Middle English brethen, from breth
intransitive verb
1 a : to draw air into and expel it from the lungs

I don't see how a first-trimester fetus (or a tree, for that matter) can breathe according to that definition. Do you?

 

[Zeena]

It's medically backed, and would you ignore the fact to suite your call?

 

[Zeena]

At http://www.answers.com/topic/breathing it's

The act, or process of respiration!

 

[HannahBanana]

It's medically backed, and would you ignore the fact to suite your call?

Would you ignore a dictionary definition to suit your cause? Plus, doctors don't know everything. How else would you explain all of the medical malpractice suits in the US today? I, for one, would trust a dictionary over a doctor any day. But that's just me.

 

[HannahBanana]

At http://www.answers.com/topic/breathing it's

The act, or process of respiration!

Answers.com is not a reputable dictionary, in my opinion. Otherwise, it would have a published book version of its definitions.