fanatiquefou
you know, for kids!
Using a Scripture to imply that Christians shouldn't think? Shouldn't be able to use their reason to come to conclusions about issues?
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Pro-Choice?
- Thread starter Boltwave
- Start date
- Status
katautumn
Prodigal Daughter
- May 14, 2015
- 7,498
- 157
- 45
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Other Religion
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
Boltwave said:
No, that is not true. At four weeks post-conception, the embryo has only been in the womb for approximately three weeks and is no bigger than a speck of sand and is the shape of a lima bean. It does not even have a heartbeat yet, let alone the neurological capacity to feel physical pain or have nervous twitches.
Doctors and scientists have both concurred that fetal pain cannot be felt until around twenty-five weeks into gestation, at which point the nerve endings have made a complete circuit with the Cerebral Cortex of the brain.
boltwave said:
Not hardly. Most women don't find out that they're pregnant until their period has been missed, which would be around five weeks or so post-conception. I was almost eight weeks pregnant with my son before I found out.
Upvote
0
KomissarSteve
Basileus
Confess implied that pro-choicers are perverse and do not believe in people actually having a choice. It was a gross mischaracterization, and I believe I was justified in taking offense at it.
I think you missed my point; my point wasn't that legalized abortions make abortion rates decline, but rather, that the way to truly and effectively stop them from happening is to give pregnant teens both a means and an incentive to carry their babies to term.
Don't be so naive; the last time abortions were made illegal in the U.S., it didn't stop women from obtaining illegal back-alley abortions. Many of them got mutilated or even died in the process. In my mind, it's a much greater sin to allow this to happen than to keep abortions safe, legal, and rare.
Adoption is a VERY viable method of dealing with 'unwanted' pregnancies! For EVERY child born there is someone who would raise him/her as his own!!!
Not everyone woman has the resources she needs to carry her baby to term. Plus, if she goes to a religious high school or college, she has a good chance of getting kicked out for being pregnant. If you really want to make a dent in the abortion rate, you'll do everything you can to ensure that these two factors change. If you don't...well, I guess we know who's not really serious about changing the abortion rate.
What a shame that the current U.S. government hasn't done as much as the previous administration to show young pregnant women this fact, then.
Perhaps the Pro-Life crowd, instead of trying to compound peoples' sins and mistakes by forcing them into the back alleys, would find their time better spent lobbying the government to create incentives for women to bring their children to term and putting them up for adoption? Getting the government to pay for prenatal care and a few years of college education for young women who put their babies up for adoption would be an extremely effective way to reduce the number of abortions.
For information on a group of legislators who are already trying to do this, Google "Democrats for Life"; it's a group that includes such Senators as Harry Reid and Bob Kerrey. Their goal is to make America a place where young women no longer even have to consider having an abortion if they get pregnant.
Upvote
0
Also, FYI, some women have very brief or infrequent menses, and so have fewer clues to pregnancy. Some women experience bleeding in early pregnancy which may appear to be a normal period. It is entirely possible to be ten weeks or more into a pregnancy before knowing it is a possibility.
Upvote
0
KomissarSteve
Basileus
Why shouldn't I believe that the Holy Spirit is speaking through my mind, and my God-given ability to reason, on this matter? Furthermore, why should I believe the Holy Spirit is speaking through you on this matter?
Kierkegaard once said (paraphrasing) that one is often inadvertently doing the Devil's work when one feels the most secure and sanctified. So why should I believe that the Holy Spirit is actually guiding YOUR actions?
Upvote
0
Zeena
..called to BE a Saint
Zeena said:
This is why we take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ Jesus.. Only He, by His Holy Spirit is a discerner of the thoughts and intentions of the heart!
A viable means for women to carry thier children to term would be nice, and appreciated I'm sure!Zeena said:
OP, there comes another thought that's not from God!Zeena said:
This line of thinking clearly goes against the grain of Scripture.KomissarSteve said:
Or, would you agrue from the standpoint that there's nothing wrong with murdering an innocent child, someone HE created for His Glory?
He has hedged you in, He hath encompassed you round about, there's nowhere you can run where He won't find you and deal with you! You confess the Name of Christ, so He will do it! He will not allow His Name to be profaned among heathen! =P
YOU give it to them!Zeena said:Adoption is a VERY viable method of dealing with 'unwanted' pregnancies! For EVERY child born there is someone who would raise him/her as his own!!!
KomissarSteve said:
I've donated to this cause, and will continue to do so, God is willing that they should not perish!
Now you supply thier want!
Zeena said:
Ok, so tell me, what does Jesus, by His Holy Spirit say about abortions [SCRIPTURALLY, I might add!]?Zeena said:
Upvote
0
Confess
Doing great with kids 8!
- Jan 23, 2007
- 1,167
- 240
- 55
- Faith
- Lutheran
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
I am prego with my eighth baby. For the past 4 pregnancies I have known within 2 weeks of conception. That is not the norm, but then again, having 8 babies isn't the norm either.
Upvote
0
KomissarSteve
Basileus
And who are you, might I ask, to say what Christ's judgments are and aren't on this matter? Why is your reading of the Scriptures more valid than mine? So far, I'm far from impressed.
It shouldn't just be appreciated; it should be what Kant referred to as a categorical imperative.A viable means for women to carry thier children to term would be nice, and appreciated I'm sure!
Opposing abortions the way you and the Pro-Life movement do simply aims to compound the sins of the women at hand, and at the same time, drives quite a few people away from Christ by mischaracterizing Christianity as a close-minded, illogical, irrational, ideologically-intransigent religion. I don't think you can really paint that as God's work one way or another.
If you want to do God's work, then start supporting social welfare programs for young women, as well as sex ed and increased access to birth control. THAT will help reduce the number of abortions, legal or otherwise.
I think it was. I think it was a kind but firm rebuke.
From my interpretation of the verse you cited, it is you and the Pro-Life movement that seeks to bring about the good of ending abortions through the evil of making them unsafe.
Strawman; it has yet to be agreed upon in this debate that a fetus is a human being, much less an "innocent child."
I think you make God very, very sad by misusing His Word in such a close-minded, hateful way, simply for the sake of an argument.
To which cause? The cause that makes it easier for women to bring their babies to term, or the cause that makes it dangerous for women to have abortions, thus compounding their sins?
As for your quoting of 1 Corinthians 5:12, do you intend to imply that the Democratic Party is outside of the Church? If so, you're sorely mistaken.
Nothing, of course. What He DOES say is to "Judge not, lest ye be judged." (Matt. 7:1, John 8:7) The Pro-Life movement is a prideful group that seeks only to judge and to make life more difficult for people who are, in reality, no more sinful than the Pro-Lifers themselves. ([SIZE=-1]Romans 3:23) This attitude is directly contrary to Christ's message; it may have been justifiable under the Old Testament regimen of Mosaic Law, but it is simply intolerable when Our Lord has extolled us to love as He has loved us.
The attitude of the Pro-Life movement has driven countless numbers away from Christ, and as such, I cannot consider their work to be anything less than that of the Devil.
[/SIZE]
Upvote
0
HannahBanana
Well-Known Member
- Dec 11, 2006
- 9,841
- 457
- 39
- Faith
- Agnostic
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Democrat
No, you can do no such thing, since abortion is never once mentioned in the Bible. What you can do (and what many other pro-life advocates have done in the past) is to twist verses around and claim that they refer to abortion. Does this mean that the verses in question actually do refer to abortion? Of course not. Just like the verses that the KKK claims are anti-black people aren't actually so.
Upvote
0
KomissarSteve
Basileus
I already did; the verses you quote, on the other hand, are taken completely out of context and do not really support your argument in even the vaguest sense.
Upvote
0
HannahBanana
Well-Known Member
- Dec 11, 2006
- 9,841
- 457
- 39
- Faith
- Agnostic
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Democrat
Until you can prove that God himself considers a fetus to be a child and holds pro-life morals, you have no right to imply that he does. People do that sort of thing all too often these days: assuming that their deity holds the exact same morals that they do and twisting around verses from their holy book in order to "prove it." Frankly, I think that, if there is a God, he's more [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed with the people who misrepresent his word than the people who go against it just because they have no reason to think that the deity will be angry at them for doing so.
Of course not. But until you can show me a Bible verse that explicitly states that the killing of an unborn child through medical means is wrong and bad, I will have no reason to think that your god believes such is true.
Sorry. I guess I didn't word that clearly enough (which makes sense, since it's currently 3:08 AM where I am and I'm half-asleep). What I meant to say was that the KKK twists Bible verses around just as much as pro-lifers do.
**I'm going to go to bed now, but I'll reply to your next reply (assuming that you read this post before you yourself head off to bed) after I wake up. Have a good night.
**
Upvote
0
Zeena
..called to BE a Saint
You quoted Romans 3:23
And for posterities sake I would like to add Romans 3:24
And I Graciously quoted Romans 3:8 before you even mentioned this Scripture!
Stating the fact that we're all sinners [which, btw, is not true, as Christians we (may) sin, but are saints], so let's just go with the flow is un-Scriptural and tantamount to taking the body of the Lord in vain!
We don't, as Christian just fall down whenever sinful urges come at us, NO! We yeild to the indwelling Holy Spirit who is MORE than a conquerer of the flesh of men!
Do you even know what the flesh is?
Upvote
0
I must say, Zeena, you're coming off awfully troll-like with that statement '[which, btw, is not true, as Christians we (may) sin, but are saints]' - and it contradicts everything I've ever heard a Christian say. You are mortal like any other, no better than the rest; and every Christian I've spoken to has claimed that they are no better. They sin and err like any other man, and seek salvation. They are not 'better', they just claim to know who to ask for help.
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
