Pro-Choice?

[flicka]

Goodness no, I never meant that careless people are the ones who always get pregnated and shouldn't have an abortion, I'm talking about the alternatives that can be taken, I mean, just because you get pregnated by accident doesn't mean you have to get an abortion, either raise the child or put it up for abortion, if you don't plan on having kids, then simply get the ovaries done, that's just my take.

I see. But you have to take into consideration the 9 month leading up to the raising or adopting. It's not like the woman gets push the 'pause' button on her life until then. It's the pregnancy itself that send many to seek abortions...for many MANY reasons.

And above all, I don't neccessarily conclude that my view is entirely correct and superior above others, this is a free country, and all free countries must have their gutters to be free, otherwise it becomes dictatorship and communism, I am, however sickened by people who just discard a living organism as garbage! I find it extremely heartbraking, but, you know what, I guess everyone gets their due later in time, usually a sexually careless or unaware person is likely open to the infection of sexual diseases, a biological sign, perhaps even.

You are still being a bit short sighted though. You don't KNOW when a fetus becomes a person so perhaps nobody is discarding anything. I'm willing to grant that if you feel it IS a human then you have the right to feel bad about it, but that's all. Your interest everyone getting their due (IE: diseases for having sex) shows either a mean streak or indicates you haven't come to a point in your life where sex is even relevant yet.

 

[Boltwave]

Flicka, isn't it true that the fetus begins to feel pain and nerve reactions within four weeks development?

And, isn't it true that most people find out, within four weeks of their pregnancy of whether or not they are in fact, pregnant or not?

However you are correct, I certaintly don't wish to push any laws into the legal system, I would be suppressing free rights, even if I feel sickened by some of them.

Thanks for understanding.

 

[GorillaJ]

I am entirely pro-choice; moreover, I lean beyond the opinion that just the choice is good: I also believe that abortion itself is good, provided the reasons are just. A young woman whose pregnancy was accidental does, in my eyes, possess every right to have that pregnancy aborted. A child brought into this world to parents that do not want it and are unable to support it is a true tragedy of this world, and should be avoided. Overpopulation and draining of natural resources are also an issue. More and more people only compound that.

 

[HannahBanana]

Flicka, isn't it true that the fetus begins to feel pain and nerve reactions within four weeks development?

Actually, no, that isn't true. The fetal brain isn't nearly developed enough for the pain receptors in its body to function at only four weeks' gestation. Here are a few articles that discuss when fetal pain may start (there is not as of yet any one age that is agreed upon by all scientists, but they do agree that it is sometime within the late second or early third trimester):

http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/health/feeds/hscout/2006/04/14/hscout532137.html

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/294/8/947

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=29652

I certaintly don't wish to push any laws into the legal system, I would be suppressing free rights, even if I feel sickened by some of them.

Thank you for being so open-minded. I just wish that more Christians were like you.

 

[fanatiquefou]

I do not call them pro-choicers because they are against choice. They are only in favor of abortion.

Notice how they are not in favor of the choice of adoption, or in favor of the choice to financial help the women who are struggling to keep their children, or in favor of providing moral support.

People who speak of death are scary to me and they cannot be trusted.

These are bald-faced lies, and the fact that you posted them leads me to believe that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. I am pro-choice. I argue that the choice is up to the woman whether to abort, to adopt, or to keep and raise her child. I dislike abortion greatly, and would like to see the numbers of women getting abortions drastically reduced. I just don't believe in curtailing access to abortion through legal means. I am completely in favor of adoption, and would gladly provide any pregnant woman moral support and as much financial support as I was able, in addition to directing her to other sources that could provide help for her.

Did you really think you could get away with posting such slanders against the pro-choice crowd, such obvious falsehoods? Nobody wins when both sides demonize the opposition to the point that a discussion can't even be held.

People who speak lies are scary to me and they cannot be trusted.

 

[fanatiquefou]

And you can CONTINUE to deeply resent it all you want!
I see no reason to have taken offense in the FIRST place! =P

You see no reason to have taken offense??? The poster was blatantly lying about the pro-choice position! Of course any person of faith who had deeply considered all sides of the issue and come to a pro-choice conclusion would take offense!

 

[fanatiquefou]

And there are a lot of lies being spread by the proChoice side, specifically about partial birth abortion. I had posted links to articles that were published in the American Medical News about it. Plus, one of the doctors, Dr. Bernerd Nathanson, who co-founded NARAL (national abortion rights action league) wrote a book called The Hand of God, a journey from death to life by the abortion doctor who changed his mind. In it he freely admits that they made up statistics. It's a real eye opener.

The lies about "partial-birth abortion" are all on the anti-abortion side.

 

[flicka]

The lies about "partial-birth abortion" are all on the anti-abortion side.

There was a thread in the Christan only section that had someone saying that being pro choice meant allowing abortions right up to, and including, a woman being in labor and about to deliver. That all the Dr had to do was hurry up and kill it before the head crowned or something. The worst part was nobody questioned this, they just tisk-tisked about how evil it all was.

 

[JGG]

Flicka, isn't it true that the fetus begins to feel pain and nerve reactions within four weeks development?

Someone already responded to this, but no, its not true.

 

[Asimov]

I'm not a Christian, but I definetly despise abortion, today my family had some friends over and I listened in on my brother in law stating he was "pro-choice", when I heard this, I became slightly disturbed, I brought it up with my sister and her response was "well of course, we are all pro-choice", I argued with her that instead of killing the fetus people should consider adoption, her take on it was that 1/10 of every orphan gets adopted and the rest are sent to institutions, therefore she attempted to justify that it woudl be better to abort that unwanted fetus than to let it grow up in an orphaned lifestyle.

I don't see your problem.

If a creator truely put them there, how evil it is for man to dispense of life like garbage, and to not want to be held accountable.

I'm not entirely sure of what you're argument really is, or if this is just your own personal commentary and opinion regarding abortion.

If it's the former, could you possibly restate your argument, if it's the latter, then ok...so what?

 

[Pueblo]

Extreme positions are dumb. You can't, can't, can't have absolutes. One word: RAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPEEEE

 

[Zeena]

You see no reason to have taken offense??? The poster was blatantly lying about the pro-choice position!

That 'poster' is a professed Christian! =P

The only justificiation for anger is the anger the Lord revealed in defiling the Temple of God, of whom ye are.. Nevertheless, we are not even to let the sun go down on that anger, let alone unrighteous anger..

Taking offense with another human being, as a Christian, is God's little way of reminding us we are WALKING AFTER THE FLESH!

Jeremiah 23:21
I did not send these prophets, yet they have run with their message; I did not speak to them, yet they have prophesied.

Tell me, is Christ in you pro-abortion?!?

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Of course any person of faith who had deeply considered all sides of the issue and come to a pro-choice conclusion would take offense!

WHY, praytell, would I consider the 'other' side?!? To weigh my options?!? To make an 'informed' choice mayhaps?!?

1 Corinthians 8:1b
Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

Extreme positions are dumb. You can't, can't, can't have absolutes.

For Christians there is an absolute, it's Jesus, who is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
Yes life is hard, it was never meant to be easy! In fact, it's meant to be downright impossible apart from the Life of Christ indwelling a believer on His Holy Name.

Jeremiah 12:5
If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?

I pray God reveals this truth to you in His time

 

[fanatiquefou]

WHY, praytell, would I consider the 'other' side?!? To weigh my options?!? To make an 'informed' choice mayhaps?!?

Well, uh...yeah. Is an uninformed choice somehow better than an informed one now? I hate people who use verses like the one you use to somehow imply that all knowledge is bad, that we should all just "feel" the truth. These are the people who hold "truthiness" up to be of the highest value. God gave us our brains and the ability to think and process things for a REASON, people!

Maybe you'd also want to consider the other side so you'd be able to understand that those who disagree with you aren't evil, they aren't Satan's minions, they aren't hateful, disgusting, unclean people, and they have thought things through thoroughly, realized the complexities and difficulties involved, and come to a conclusion based on everything they know.

Arrggghgh.

Another note: Punctuation is good. I like exclamation points and question marks quite a bit myself. However, it doesn't hold that if one question mark or one exclamation point is good, then LOTS must be even better!!!?!?!?

 

[Zeena]

Well, uh...yeah. Is an uninformed choice somehow better than an informed one now? I hate people who use verses like the one you use to somehow imply that all knowledge is bad, that we should all just "feel" the truth. These are the people who hold "truthiness" up to be of the highest value. God gave us our brains and the ability to think and process things for a REASON, people!

You HATE me now?
Your sister in Christ who LOVES you?

Just becuase we don't agree you think that gives you license to HATE me?!!?

2 Corinthians 10:4-5
(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; ) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

God gave us a brain, for JESUS to use in and through us! Not for us to take and use the way WE see fit..

It's HIS body!

Maybe you'd also want to consider the other side so you'd be able to understand that those who disagree with you aren't evil, they aren't Satan's minions, they aren't hateful, disgusting, unclean people, and they have thought things through thoroughly, realized the complexities and difficulties involved, and come to a conclusion based on everything they know.
Arrggghgh.

Romans 16:19b
[KJV] I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

[NIV] I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.

What I know is this..

Jesus LOVES EVERYBODY!
He created these children who are being aborted, and He continues to Love them the whole time!

He wants every GOOD thing for them!

Another note: Punctuation is good. I like exclamation points and question marks quite a bit myself. However, it doesn't hold that if one question mark or one exclamation point is good, then LOTS must be even better!!!?!?!?

Better?

Jesus Loves you!

 

[MooCar93]

Goodness no, I never meant that careless people are the ones who always get pregnated and shouldn't have an abortion, I'm talking about the alternatives that can be taken, I mean, just because you get pregnated by accident doesn't mean you have to get an adoption, either raise the child or put it up for abortion, if you don't plan on having kids, then simply get the ovaries done, that's just my take.

Um, no. How about YOU get a dang vasectomy, hm? Those at least are sometimes reversable and generally involve outpatient surgery.

I have a sneaking suspicion you see sex, pregnancy, abortion, etc. as solely a woman's issue and unwed mothers being pregnant and solely the woman's fault. Sorry - women don't make themselves pregnant. This is also the reason I get so steamed when I hear men shouting about how women who get abortions are murderers - I thought abortion should be illegal, too, until I found myself in the position of taking a pregnancy test at 19. It's amazing how easy it is to dismiss something as an abomination when you've never had to face such a decision yourself.

And I'm not even going to touch on Zeena's rebuttal to my comment on ectopic pregnancies and rape victims. The idea that God putting a fetus in my fallopian tube (which can only result in death for both the mother and the baby if left untreated), or forcing me to nurture the fruit of a violent, sadistic rape inside me for 9 months is somehow proof of his love for me is just a little incomprehensible. And I'm a believer.

 

[MooCar93]

BTW... I'm fighting the urge to go over to FSTDT right now.

 

[Zeena]

Um, no. How about YOU get a dang vasectomy, hm? Those at least are sometimes reversable and generally involve outpatient surgery.

Umm, BoltWave already answered that..

Good point, I think I might actually get it done concerning kids, in my opinion, for me personally, being sterile would be a blessing.

 

[Zeena]

And I'm not even going to touch on Zeena's rebuttal to my comment on ectopic pregnancies and rape victims. The idea that God putting a fetus in my fallopian tube (which can only result in death for both the mother and the baby if left untreated), or forcing me to nurture the fruit of a violent, sadistic rape inside me for 9 months is somehow proof of his love for me is just a little incomprehensible. And I'm a believer.

You might SAY you'll not comment, but what is this?!?

James 4:8
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

 

[fanatiquefou]

You HATE me now?
Your sister in Christ who LOVES you?

Just becuase we don't agree you think that gives you license to HATE me?!!?

Okay, give it a rest. No, I don't hate you. I don't hate anyone. Perhaps I worded it wrongly, but I think you know what I meant. I hate it when people misuse Scripture.

 

[Zeena]

Okay, give it a rest. No, I don't hate you. I don't hate anyone. Perhaps I worded it wrongly, but I think you know what I meant. I hate it when people misuse Scripture.

MUCH better!

And now, how did I misuse Scripture in your eyes?