Prevenient Grace: What is it?

[notreligus]

It has been observed many, many times that the synergists on this forum will tolerate just about any kind of heresy like Pelagianism, Annihilationism, and a flat out denial of the Gospel as long as the person doing so hates Calvinism. All those other things go unchecked.

I just randomly noticed this thread and this post and had to stop and comment.

Let me tell you that you are so right. And, it is not at this discussion board only but I find this to be true at every "Christian" discussion board I know of and I have posted at or tried to post at many. I am not a Calvinist, per se', but I don't change the Scriptures just so I can oppose Calvinism. You might ask the question here as to how many people actually own a hard copy of Calvin's writings and have read one. I'd be surprised if you find more than one out of fifty who have, but they parrot everything they've heard or read.

 

[guuila]

I just randomly noticed this thread and this post and had to stop and comment.

Let me tell you that you are so right. And, it is not at this discussion board only but I find this to be true at every "Christian" discussion board I know of and I have posted at or tried to post at many. I am not a Calvinist, per se', but I don't change the Scriptures just so I can oppose Calvinism. You might ask the question here as to how many people actually own a hard copy of Calvin's writings and have read one. I'd be surprised if you find more than one out of fifty who have, but they parrot everything they've heard or read.

Well, a person doesn't have to have any knowledge of Calvin to be a Calvinist.

 

[SolaOne]

Rev 3:14-22
Behold, I stand at the door and knock, etc., v. 20. Here observe,
[1.] Christ is graciously pleased by his word and Spirit to come to the door of the heart of sinners; he draws near to them in a way of mercy, ready to make them a kind visit.
[2.] He finds this door shut against him; the heart of man is by nature shut up against Christ by ignorance, unbelief, sinful prejudices.
[3.] When he finds the heart shut, he does not immediately withdraw, but he waits to be gracious, even till his head be filled with the dew.
[4.] He uses all proper means to awaken sinners, and to cause them to open to him: he calls by his word, he knocks by the impulses of his Spirit upon their conscience.
[5.] Those who open to him shall enjoy his presence, to their great comfort and advantage. He will sup with them; he will accept of what is good in them; he will eat his pleasant fruit; and he will bring the best part of the entertainment with him. If what he finds would make but a poor feast, what he brings will make up the deficiency: he will give fresh supplies of graces and comforts, and thereby stir up fresh actings of faith, and love, and delight; and in all this Christ and his repenting people will enjoy pleasant communion with each other. Alas! what do careless obstinate sinners lose by refusing to open the door of the heart to Christ!
(from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.)

 

[Hammster]

Not sure where Mathew Henry sees "heart" either.

 

[SolaOne]

Not sure where Mathew Henry sees "heart" either.

What door do you think he stands at?

 

[janxharris]

Not exactly.

One is a mere wooing on God's part to try to entice sinners to do the right thing.

The other is God himself actually doing a miraculous, spiritual work in the person so that the blindfold is removed, the heart is changed, the hostility is disarmed, and we are quickened from spiritual death to life. The natural result of this is being willing to repent and believe the gospel.

Two different roles? Why?

 

[harrisrose77]

Well, a person doesn't have to have any knowledge of Calvin to be a Calvinist.

Acts 19:15
One day an evil spirit asked them, 'Jesus I know, Paul I know, but who are you [Calvin]?'
Calvin was just a man, and yet so called 'Calvinists' place so much on him as though He himself were a god. Get over it, and become men of God, not men of Calvin.

 

[harrisrose77]

Two different roles? Why?

Skala


The Holy Spirit is called 'the helper' John 14:26. Just as Eve was given as helper to Adam.
Without the Holy Spirit, the Church would not be called the Bride of Christ.

 

[crimsonleaf]

Two different roles? Why?

It's a little harsh to ask a Calvinist to explain the reasons for two distinct approaches by the Holy Spirit when he clearly doesn't believe in one of them.

Skala is explaining the synergist's view for another poster.

 

[crimsonleaf]

Acts 19:15
One day an evil spirit asked them, 'Jesus I know, Paul I know, but who are you [Calvin]?'
Calvin was just a man, and yet so called 'Calvinists' place so much on him as though He himself were a god. Get over it, and become men of God, not men of Calvin.

For the umpteenth time, many of us arrived at our theological conclusions through studying scripture, only to discover that we were covering ground already covered by Calvin and others. You may note that almost all of us are Baptists by the way, something which was in clear opposition to Calvin's views. There are many other areas of disagreement, but trying to throw "Get over it" jibes is less than endearing and highlights your ignorance of our beliefs.

 

[harrisrose77]

For the umpteenth time, many of us arrived at our theological conclusions through studying scripture, only to discover that we were covering ground already covered by Calvin and others. You may note that almost all of us are Baptists by the way, something which was in clear opposition to Calvin's views. There are many other areas of disagreement, but trying to throw "Get over it" jibes is less than endearing and highlights your ignorance of our beliefs.

Would you also be of the belief that the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased?

 

[crimsonleaf]

Would you also be of the belief that the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased?

Not relevant to the thread or my post. I'm not providing a complete list of doctrinal disagreements or agreements with Calvin just for your amusement.

 

[harrisrose77]

Not relevant to the thread or my post. I'm not providing a complete list of doctrinal disagreements or agreements with Calvin just for your amusement.

A simple yes or no would be fine thanks. I'm not one to bear too much high falluted elloquence in proving one's knowledge of what 'yes' & 'No' mean.
But I won't apologise for my simpleness, as much is given by God to the simple minded, to confound the wise in their own sight.
Good day to you.

 

[crimsonleaf]

A simple yes or no would be fine thanks. I'm not one to bear too much high falluted elloquence in proving one's knowledge of what 'yes' & 'No' mean.
But I won't apologise for my simpleness, as much is given by God to the simple minded, to confound the wise in their own sight.
Good day to you.

A simple Yes or No would be starting a list, unless you have another meaning which is relevant to the OP?

 

[Hammster]

What door do you think he stands at?

Well, since he's writing to a church...

 

[Hammster]

Acts 19:15
One day an evil spirit asked them, 'Jesus I know, Paul I know, but who are you [Calvin]?'
Calvin was just a man, and yet so called 'Calvinists' place so much on him as though He himself were a god. Get over it, and become men of God, not men of Calvin.

Gee. I haven't heard that false accusation in awhile.

Ah, nostalgia.

 

[americanvet]

This term gets used from time to time around here. I think some just assume that everyone understands it.

So, here's a chance for proponents to set the record straight.

1. What is it?
2. Why is it necessary?
3. What is the biblical support?

Prevenient grace is grace that comes first. It precedes all human decision and endeavor. Grace always means that it is God who takes the initiative and implies the priority of God’s actions on behalf of needy sinners. Source: page 520 of the Evangelical Dictionary of Theology 2nd edition


Scripture references: 1 John 4:10, 1 John 4:19, Rom 5:6,8, Eph 2:8, Rom 10:9-13


Now I am sure that some will disagree with the Scripture references and say they mean something else. I am not here to debate prevenient grace. I am answering a question posted by the OP. I love all my brothers and sisters in Christ. Does a Calvinist share the Gospel to the lost world, yes. Does an Arminianist share the Gospel to the lost world, yes. Love one another!

 

[crimsonleaf]

Prevenient grace is grace that comes first. It precedes all human decision and endeavor. Grace always means that it is God who takes the initiative and implies the priority of God’s actions on behalf of needy sinners. Source: page 520 of the Evangelical Dictionary of Theology 2nd edition


Scripture references: 1 John 4:10, 1 John 4:19, Rom 5:6,8, Eph 2:8, Rom 10:9-13


Now I am sure that some will disagree with the Scripture references and say they mean something else. I am not here to debate prevenient grace. I am answering a question posted by the OP. I love all my brothers and sisters in Christ. Does a Calvinist share the Gospel to the lost world, yes. Does an Arminianist share the Gospel to the lost world, yes. Love one another!

I admire the effort, but if you're not here to debate prevenient grace then you're on the wrong thread. Using the references you have in support of prevenient grace (for surely, that's why you've provided them) only goes to show that prevenient grace most certainly does not exist.

As for your dictionary, yes we all believe in a form of prevenient grace. It's just that we believe in an effectual grace which works infallibly, rather than one which may or may not work at all.

 

[guuila]

Acts 19:15
One day an evil spirit asked them, 'Jesus I know, Paul I know, but who are you [Calvin]?'
Calvin was just a man, and yet so called 'Calvinists' place so much on him as though He himself were a god. Get over it, and become men of God, not men of Calvin.

I've never once read anything by John Calvin. Weird.

 

[Hammster]

I've never once read anything by John Calvin. Weird.

The consortium that tells us what to think has, though.