Prevenient Grace: What is it?

[Hammster]

Just that you think it is metaphorical for the church as a whole, but he seems to be talking about individuals.

It was spoken to a ______?

 

[SolaOne]

Rev 3:14
To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

A pastor

 

[Hammster]

Rev 3:14
To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

A pastor

So He wasn't speaking to the Church? Just the pastor?

 

[SolaOne]

So He wasn't speaking to the Church? Just the pastor?

Isn't a church made up of individuals? "If anyone"

Rev 3:20
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.

 

[Hammster]

Isn't a church made up of individuals? "If anyone"

Rev 3:20
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.

But I don't see Jesus knocking on the hearts of unbelievers. That's what started this discussion.

 

[SolaOne]

But I don't see Jesus knocking on the hearts of unbelievers. That's what started this discussion.

?

I thinks it's metaphorical for standing outside of the church as a whole. And I don't think everybody in any church should be considered born again.

You think Jesus is trying to get into the "door" of individual church members "if anyone" who already have him abiding in them?

 

[shturt678]

But I don't see Jesus knocking on the hearts of unbelievers. That's what started this discussion.

What about deceived make-believers?

 

[guuila]

Another red herring logical fallacy.

What was I discussing to which you replied. This is what I wrote:

I was discussing Calvin, not Spurgeon. So by bringing Spurgeon into your reply you have committed a red herring logical fallacy.

Bye, Oz

Hey. I sure did. I'll admit it.

 

[guuila]

Well, that was fun.

 

[shturt678]

Well, that was fun.

"Prevenient grace' finds grace finds absolutely no Biblical support; yet "make-believers" does. :o

 

[guuila]

"Prevenient grace' finds grace finds absolutely no Biblical support; yet "make-believers" does. :o

Huh?

 

[shturt678]

Huh?

Hurriedly before Church this morning tried to mock "prevenient grace" and mocked myself, ie, I deserved it and lol at my ignorant self. Thank you. God never empowered anyone to accept nor reject salvation. I needed more humility anyway.

 

[guuila]

Hurriedly before Church this morning tried to mock "prevenient grace" and mocked myself, ie, I deserved it and lol at my ignorant self. Thank you. God never empowered anyone to accept nor reject salvation. I needed more humility anyway.

 

[Skala]

Skala, would you say some more about the wooing to TRY to entice sinner to do the right thing? You don't mean the Holy Spirit is trying to entice sinners to believe do you?

I'll jump in and say that no, that's not what he believes. But that's the way a lot of synergists use the word.

Thats not what I believe, but it's what synergists believe, it's what the Arminian doctrine of prevenient grace teaches.

That is why I set up the contrast between Arminian Prevenient Grace vs Calvinistic Irresistible grace.

The question I was responding to asked of Prevenient grace was merely resistible Irresistible Grace.

I said no, but the two are not alike at all. In the one, God is merely trying to woo sinners to do the right thing (prev grace), in the other, God is actually changing hearts and regenerating people so that they are willing to believe (Irresistible Grace)

Long story short: Prevenient Grace is not resistible Irresistible Grace

The two doctrines are nothing alike.

 

[SolaOne]

Thats not what I believe, but it's what synergists believe, it's what the Arminian doctrine of prevenient grace teaches.

That is why I set up the contrast between Arminian Prevenient Grace vs Calvinistic Irresistible grace.

The question I was responding to asked of Prevenient grace was merely resistible Irresistible Grace.

I said no, but the two are not alike at all. In the one, God is merely trying to woo sinners to do the right thing (prev grace), in the other, God is actually changing hearts and regenerating people so that they are willing to believe (Irresistible Grace)

Long story short: Prevenient Grace is not resistible Irresistible Grace

The two doctrines are nothing alike.

But in prevenient grace God actually brings some to belief and regenerates their hearts doesn't he?

 

[Hammster]

But in prevenient grace God actually brings some to belief and regenerates their hearts doesn't he?

No, not in the synergist construct.

 

[SolaOne]

No, not in the synergist construct.

If the prevenient grace of God doesn't bring some to belief and regeneration, then what do they think it does?

 

[Hammster]

If the prevenient grace of God doesn't bring some to belief and regeneration, then what do they think it does?

And that's the question the OP asks. But they don't seem to want to answer.

 

[SolaOne]

I found this:

Prevenient grace is grace that God gives to begin the process of drawing a person to Himself. Its purpose is to prepare the heart of the non believer to respond to the good news of salvation in Jesus Christ. Because of the sinful nature, no person seeks after God on his own. The Holy Spirit convicts a person of sin, shows him his need for the Savior, and urges the person to repent. Prevenient grace is universal, given to all. It is resistible - a person can spurn it to his own detriment. It works in combination with the hearing of the Word. It shows the non-believer that he has a further need for salvation. It results in saving grace when a person positively responds and perseveres in faith.

Describing prevenient grace, Thomas Oden writes:

Prevening grace antecedes human responsiveness so as to prepare the soul for the effective hearing of the redeeming Word. This preceding grace draws persons closer to God, lessens their blindness to divine remedies, strengthens their will to accept revealed truth, and enables repentance. Only when sinners are assisted by prevenient grace can they begin to yield their hearts to cooperation with subsequent forms of grace.
​

Prevenient grace has some commonality with the Calvinistic teaching of irresistible grace. Both attempt to explain how God draws the non-believer to Himself. Thus, Arminians and Calvinists often appeal to the same passages when explaining their concepts of drawing grace (John 6:44, for example). The two primary differences between prevenient grace and and irresistable grace are scope and resistability. Arminians believe that God draws everyone to Himself, while Calvinists believe that He draws a limited number. Arminians believe that drawing grace can be rejected, while Calvinists believe that drawing grace is always effectual.

 

[SolaOne]

What grace is being show in Isaiah to the wicked?

Isa 26:10
Though grace is shown to the wicked, they do not learn righteousness;
even in a land of uprightness they go on doing evil and regard not the majesty of the LORD.

What grace is Jonah referring to that could be theirs?

Jonah 2:8
"Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs.