Preterism, both full & partial, are false.

[Jipsah]

I believe you need to talk with some Jews & Google "new temple in Jerusalem".

I'm sure I'd be impressed. I knew some old boys a few years ago who derclared themselves to be the legal government of the Repubic of Texas. Spoiler Alert: They weren't. Are there some Jews (or more likely "Messianic Jews" who are about as Jewish as I am) who want a "temple" rebuilt? No doubt. They're right up there with the folks who are waiting for the Planet Nibiru to show up.

Then please tell me who the beast was

Nero

, what the mark of the beast looked like

Dunno, don't read Latin anyway.

who the false prophet was

Don't know. Don't care. I don't insist that all prophecies ever made havwe been fulfilled. That's as ludicrous as claiming, as you lot do, that any ptophecy that has been fulfilled "didn't count". I try to avoid that kind of goofiness.

,when the worldwide great trib occurred, etc.

I don't think there'll be one. Here's where I use y'all's favorite closing "You'll see soon enough!" <Laugh>

 

[claninja]

That act did not fulfil Daniel 11:31 or 2 Thessalonians 2:4

So does this mean you concede you were wrong? And you agree the the Romans actually did sacrifice to idols in the temple during the siege of Jerusalem in 66-70ad?

There will be a new Temple in Jerusalem. Jesus will Return to it and reign from it. Zechariah 14:16-21

Sure, just point to any Passage in the NT where any apostle, disciple, or even Jesus Himself declares a new temple building will be built. Then I will concede your understanding of zechariah is correct.

 

[claninja]

Pagan sacrifice in the Holy place, just as perpetrated by Antiochius, just as our Lord told His followers. Check.

HFs will all chant "Doesn't count, doesn't count!

it only counts when it agrees with their presupposition…..which last time I checked, has a 100% failure rate in predictions since the first century.

 

[keras]

So does this mean you concede you were wrong? And you agree the the Romans actually did sacrifice to idols in the temple during the siege of Jerusalem in 66-70ad?

The Roman troops burnt the Temple, then demolished all the stonework.
If they did make any kind of sacrifice on the ruins, it surely didn't fulfil the Prophesies about an Abomination of Desolation.

Sure, just point to any Passage in the NT where any apostle, disciple, or even Jesus Himself declares a new temple building will be built. Then I will concede your understanding of zechariah is correct.

I did that already, you fail to recognise that 2 Thesss 2:4 and Revelation 11:1, show there must be a Temple during the end times. There are many OT scriptures that describe the new Temple; one better than Solomons. Haggai 2:7-9
Have you the moral fortitude to concede you were wrong?

 

[claninja]

The Roman troops burnt the Temple, then demolished all the stonework.
If they did make any kind of sacrifice on the ruins, it surely didn't fulfil the Prophesies about an Abomination of Desolation.

great, then you agree Roman soldiers sacrifices to idols on the Temple complex, just as Antiochus did. The difference then being that the temple and stonework were demolished under the Romans, while remained intact under Antiochus. That’s ok, because Jesus said not one stone would stand upon another:

Matthew 24:7 Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

interesting that Jesus makes no mention of a temple being rebuilt….

I did that already, you fail to recognise that 2 Thesss 2:4 and Revelation 11:1, show there must be a Temple during the end times.

these passages don’t mention anything about a temple building being rebuilt. Try again.

 

[keras]

these passages don’t mention anything about a temple building being rebuilt.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Revelation 11:1, both prove that there will be a Temple in Jerusalem during the end times and Zechariah 1:16 & 14:16-21, Haggai 2:9, plus many other prophesies, confirm it.
Ezekiel 40 to 46 details the construction and the operation of the New Temple in the end times

Your rejection of plainly stated scripture is a serious error.

 

[claninja]

Your rejection of plainly stated scripture is a serious error.

incorrect, I don’t reject scripture, i reject YOUR interpretations of said scripture. None of the NT passages you provided mention anything of a temple being rebuilt. Try again. If you can provide even 1 New Testament passage that plainly says a new temple building will be rebuilt, i will concede.

 

[keras]

incorrect, I don’t reject scripture, i reject YOUR interpretations of said scripture. None of the NT passages you provided mention anything of a temple being rebuilt. Try again. If you can provide even 1 New Testament passage that plainly says a new temple building will be rebuilt, i will concede.

Acts 15:18 Therefore, I shall return and rebuild the fallen house of David, I will rebuild its ruins and set it up again.
Only abject and boot licking apologies accepted.

 

[eclipsenow]

Wrong. Josephus records they brought their ensigns to the temple and sacrificed to them against its eastern gate.

Exactly!

“And now the Romans, upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the holy house itself, and of all the buildings round about it, brought their ensigns to the temple, (18)and set them over-against its eastern gate. And there did they offer sacrifices to them: and there did they make Titus Imperator” - wars of the Jews 6.6.1​

Futurists sometimes want to insist that something other than God was worshipped in the temple. It just shows they don't know history - or the practices of the Roman soldiers - or how important an Eagle ensign was! They SACRIFICED to this image of the Emperor.

The eagle had quasi-religious importance to the Roman soldier, far beyond being merely a symbol of his legion. To lose a standard was extremely grave, and the Roman military went to great lengths both to protect a standard and to recover it if it were lost; after the annihilation of three legions in the Teutoburg Forest, the Romans spent decades retaliating for the defeat while also attempting to recover the three lost eagles.
Aquila (Roman) - Wikipedia​

 

[claninja]

Acts 15:18 Therefore, I shall return and rebuild the fallen house of David, I will rebuild its ruins and set it up again.
Only abject and boot licking apologies accepted.

struck out again keras. No mention of the temple complex here. Not so sure the “tent of David” refers to the temple complex.

Additionally, vs 17 has the word “so that”. As we can se per helps word studies, this emphasizes the process that produces the results. In other words , David’s fallen tent had to be restored “so that” the gentiles would seek the Lord. We’re the gentiles seeking God? According to Simeon, yes. So this was Already fulfilled in the first century per James.

hópōs (an adverb that is also used as a conjunction – derived from ho, "which" and 4459 /pṓs, "how, in what way," J. Thayer) – that, focusing on the necessary measures (factors, desires) that are required for the intended goal to be reached.
3704 /hópōs ("so that") is stronger than simple "that," because it emphasizes the method (qualities, prerequisites) involved to accomplish the objective (purpose) at hand.


Acts 15:14-17
14Simona has told us how God first visited the Gentiles to take from them a people to be His own. 15The words of the prophets agree with this, as it is written:16‘After this I will return and rebuild the fallen tent of David.
Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it,17so that (hopos) the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by My name,

 

[keras]

No mention of the temple complex here. Not so sure the “tent of David” refers to the temple complex.

Tents do not fall into ruins.
Acts 15:18 refers to a building, 'Davids tent' is a euphemism.
There are still many gentiles; other people - seeking God.
Your desperate attempts to maintain your false preterist belief, is obvious to all.

 

[claninja]

Tents do not fall into ruins.
Acts 15:18 refers to a building, 'Davids tent' is a euphemism.
There are still many gentiles; other people - seeking God.
Your desperate attempts to maintain your false preterist belief, is obvious to all.

David never built a temple complex. Solomons temple complex replaced the tent of David. Try again keras.

Again acts 15:17, says “so that”.
Davids fallen tent was restored, “so that” the gentiles would seek him.

Gentiles seeking God according to Simeon ? Check.
Then the fallen tent of David was already restored.

 

[claninja]

Futurists sometimes want to insist that something other than God was worshipped in the temple. It just shows they don't know history - or the practices of the Roman soldiers - or how important an Eagle ensign was! They SACRIFICED to this image of the Emperor.

Doesn’t really matter to the hyper futurist. They claim the AOD will be like what happened under antiochus. Then when showed evidence that what happened in 70ad was just like what antiochus did (sacrificing to idols in the temple), they just say “well that doesn’t fulfill anything”….

The funny thing though, is that hyper futurists claim 66-70ad didn’t fulfill any eschatological prophecies, and yet they have a 100% failure in 2nd coming predictions since 66-70ad.

the hyper futurist Says it’s still future. jesus said it would occur in the first century generation. I’ll stick with Jesus, as the temple did fall and the Romans did sacrifice in the temple during the first century generation.

 

[keras]

The Temple will be rebuilt:
Zechariah 8:2 Again, the word of the Lord came to me; I am very jealous for Zion, I am burning with jealousy for her. [the Lord will clear the holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43]

Zechariah 8:3 This is what the Lord says; I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem, it will be called the City of Faithfulness and the Temple mount will be called the Holy Mountain.


Zechariah 8:4-5 This is what the Lord Almighty says; Once again old people and children will inhabit the streets of Jerusalem.

Zechariah 8:6 This is what the Lord Almighty says; Even if this may seem impossible to the remnant of this nation, will it be impossible for Me?

Zechariah 8:7-8 These are the words of the Lord of Hosts; I am about to rescue My people from countries in the East and West and bring them back to live in Jerusalem. They will be My people and I shall be their God, in faithfulness and justice.

The Land cleansed, His faithful Christian people gathered and settled in the Land. Back to Jerusalem: the place of origin for our Christian faith.


Zechariah 8:9 These are the words of the Lord of Hosts; Take heart, all you who now hear that the Temple is to be rebuilt as the prophets foretold. [Zechariah 6:15, Haggai 2:-9, +]

Zechariah 8:10 Before that time, there was no hiring of man or beast, because of your enemies, for I had set every man against his neighbour.

Zechariah 8:11 But, I do not feel the same toward the remnant of this people as I did in former days, says the Lord of Hosts.

Zechariah 8:12 For they will sow in safety, I will give them rain and the Land will yield it’s produce. This is the inheritance of My people.


Zech 8:13 To the nations you, House of Judah and House of Israel, have become as a curse; now I shall save you – you will become proverbial as a blessing. Courage, do not lose heart!
[His Christian people, Jews and Gentiles, will be an example to the nations]

Zechariah 8:14-15 These are the words of the Lord; Just as I determined to bring disaster on you when your forefathers [Galatians 3:26-29; by faith.] made Me angry, so I have resolved to do good again to Jerusalem and Judah. Do not be afraid.

Zechariah 8:16-17 This is what you must do; speak the truth to each other and administer true justice in your courts. Do not plot evil and do not love perjury, for all these I hate. This is the word of the Lord.


Zechariah 8:19 These are the words of the Lord; Keep the fasts of the 4th, 5th, 7th and 10th months. They will be festivals of joy for Judah. Love truth and peace.

Zechariah 8:20-22 These are the words of the Lord; In future, nations and peoples will come to Jerusalem to entreat the favour of the Lord.

Zechariah 8:23 These are the words of the Lord; In those days, 10 people from every nation will take hold of a Jew and say; Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you. Who is a real Jew? Romans 2:29 makes that clear.
Ref; REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.

 

[Bobber]

I've listened to both positions the partial preterist and futurists. I'm open to consider both positions but still lean towards a futurist way of thinking. For example, Jesus said about tribulation that would come to Israels people that it will be worse than if ever was before and won't ever get that bad again. Thing is though it has through history. More people died in modern wars then ever did by the numbers in 70 AD or there about.

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matt 24: 21

Plus where Revelation talks about such great percentages of the population dying on the earth....and it give the percentages.....I can't understand how anyone could say those things are in our past.

 

[robycop3]

huh? I thought you said the AOD will be similar To antiochus’ day where he sacrificed to an idol with a pig inside the temple complex? The Romans sacrificed to standards (which were idols) inside the temple complex. That would be very similar.

No proof that the Romans did anything but pull the temple down, searching for gold between its stones.

now, your saying the AOD is the man of sin sitting in the “naos” of a new temple, which is not like and idol being sacrificed in the temple complex? I also can’t find where the NT says a new future temple building will be built? Lots of confusion here still [/B]

I'm not saying it-SCRIPTURE is, in 2 Thess.2: & Rev. 13. The beast will demand to be worshipped, recognizing no other god but himself, & doubtlessly, sacrifices will be offered to him.

 

[robycop3]

t saying it=

It was.

No, it wasn't.

There are 2 things asked. The disciples seem to think it is one and the same - as the end of THAT temple MUST be the end of the age, right? THAT temple - that they're looking at with their own physical eyeballs and pointing out to Jesus! Now if you can find a verse about a hypothetical THIRD temple referenced here in Matthew 24, please do tell!? Show us? I need to be corrected if it is there.

In 2 Thess. 2:4, the man of sin (beast) will sit in the temple & proclaim himself to be God. That didn't happen in the temple then standing, so it MUST happen in a new one.

But I can only see THAT temple - "These things" I'm putting in blue.


Matthew 24
"Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”"

Jesus is telling them they should KNOW the temple is about to be destroyed because he is there! He is going to die. He is going to END the temple system!

“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

When Jesus quotes the Daniel verse - he's saying that it will be like Antiochus - it will be an event SO BAD it makes the temple unclean! Some say that's even a reference to Jesus own death!

Then the Romans came in AD 70 and tore every temple stone down.

Sorry - but what have the following verses got to do with Matthew 24?

The AOD didn't occur then. The Romans tore the old temple apart, seeking gold between its stones. (None was found.)

 

[claninja]

No proof that the Romans did anything but pull the temple down, searching for gold between its stones.

Josephus wrote that the Romans sacrificed to idols in the temple complex in “wars of the Jews 6.6.1”.

But if you don’t accept Josephus as evidence, What proof do you have they were looking for Gold?

I'm not saying it-SCRIPTURE is, in 2 Thess.2: & Rev. 13. The beast will demand to be worshipped, recognizing no other god but himself, & doubtlessly, sacrifices will be offered to him.

those scriptures don’t mention anything of an AOD, nor sacrifices given to an idol in the temple complex…..so….no idea what your talking about…..

 

[DavidPT]

[/B]



those scriptures don’t mention anything of an AOD

Why aren't you using the same argument in Luke 21? That chapter says zero about an AOD as well, yet you insist it involves an AOD, regardless.

 

[robycop3]

Jerusalem "compassed about by armies", check. Temple destroyed, check. Holy of Holies left desolate by the abominable act of making pagan sacrifice there, check. Sacrifice ceased, check. Horrors inflicted on the people of Jerusalem worse than anything that had ever been seen, check. The Beast of Revelation? Nero; the people to whom the letter was written, i.e., "had wisdom" knew that,check. Mark of the Beast? THe chit showing that you'd made the mandatory sacrifice to the emperor, check. Hyoer Futurists say, "None of tht counts".

Handy way of erasing inconvenient history, but utterly dishonest.

You prets amuse me by your hilarious attempts to justify your hooey !
No pagan sacrifices. The Romans were only interested in finding gold in the temple, & they tore it apart seeking gold between its stones.
No worldwide trib as Jesus prophesied in Rev. 3:10.
I've posted PROOF that Nero was NOT the beast.
That was NOT the marka the beast. That was the time of the 4 Caesars, & none of them demanded to be worshipped.

Look around you. Is this not the same world that existed then? There are many Roman landmarx that predate the destruction of J & the temple. Construction of the Colosseum began in 70 AD. Had the trib come, this would be a much-different world!