Preterism, both full & partial, are false.

[keras]

To Deny Jesus rules over the Whole World today is to deny plain scripture.

This is another subject.
What I was referring to was, the 'goal' of Jesus is not just His Death for the Atonement of sins, but HIs future rule over the world with His rod of iron, Psalms 2:7-9, Zechariah 14:16-21
He HAS the authority, but hasn't taken it up yet.

Thinking that Jesus is ruling now with His rod of iron, is unsupportable - literally and Spiritually.

 

[parousia70]

This is another subject.
What I was referring to was, the 'goal' of Jesus is not just His Death for the Atonement of sins, but HIs future rule over the world with His rod of iron, Psalms 2:7-9, Zechariah 14:16-21
He HAS the authority, but hasn't taken it up yet.

Then by all means tell us, what ruler power or pincipality has power and authority ABOVE Jesus in this world Today?

What does "he hasn't taken it up yet" mean exactly?

Thinking that Jesus is ruling now with His rod of iron, is unsupportable - literally and Spiritually.

If that were true, you could easily demonstrate what power is presently is over and above Jesus in this world today. Or at the very least, show us what Power and authority Jesus presently LACKS.

Can you?

Show us why you believe this scripture is untrue, and why you believe Jesus was wrong to make this claim:

"And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, 'All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth'" (Matthew 28:18)

 

[keras]

Then by all means tell us, what ruler power or pincipality has power and authority ABOVE Jesus in this world Today?

Satan is the power over the earth. He even was when Jesus was on earth and offered the earth to Jesus if He would bow to him. Matthew 4:8-9

What does "he hasn't taken it up yet" mean exactly?

Jesus will Return to take up His rightful Kingdom. Revelation 19:16

Show us why you believe this scripture is untrue, and why you believe Jesus was wrong to make this claim:

"And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, 'All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth'"

I have already said; Jesus has the authority, but the drama of the ages must play out. People still have the choice; with their freewill, to obey God or follow Satan.
Only after Jesus Returns, will Satan be chained up and there will be no sin during the Millennium. But when the thousand years is finished, Satan will be released and will again deceive many. To their Eternal loss.
I'm away for the next week. Try to consider what God is aiming to achieve.

 

[parousia70]

Only after Jesus Returns, will Satan be chained up and there will be no sin during the Millennium.

Where does scripture teach that Human Beings are incapable of sinning while Satan is Bound?

And if that is true, then who are these people who will get no rain and be punished for disobeying during the Millennium?:

Zechariah 14:16-19
16Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.d 17And should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, then the rain will not fall on them. 18And if the people of Egypt will not go up and enter in, then the rain will not fall on them; this will be the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 19This will be the punishment of Egypt and of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

Who are these people being punished and stricken by God with plague during the Millennium for disobeying? Is Disobeying God NOT a Sin in the Millennium?

And How is it even possible for anyone to Disobey Jesus while Satan is Bound and He is ruling with a Rod of Iron??

You seem to assert it will be IMPOSSIBLE, so again, who ARE these people in Zechariah 14, who are disobeying God during the Millennium that God punishes for doing so, if your claim is that no such people will exist there??

Do you know something Zechariah Didn't?
Was Zechariah mistaken?

I'm away for the next week.

Safe travels!

 

[Timtofly]

Where does scripture teach that Human Beings are incapable of sinning while Satan is Bound?

And if that is true, then who are these people who will get no rain and be punished for disobeying during the Millennium?:

Zechariah 14:16-19
16Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.d 17And should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, then the rain will not fall on them. 18And if the people of Egypt will not go up and enter in, then the rain will not fall on them; this will be the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 19This will be the punishment of Egypt and of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

Who are these people being punished and stricken by God with plague during the Millennium for disobeying? Is Disobeying God NOT a Sin in the Millennium?

And How is it even possible for anyone to Disobey Jesus while Satan is Bound and He is ruling with a Rod of Iron??

You seem to assert it will be IMPOSSIBLE, so again, who ARE these people in Zechariah 14, who are disobeying God during the Millennium that God punishes for doing so, if your claim is that no such people will exist there??

Do you know something Zechariah Didn't?
Was Zechariah mistaken?



Safe travels!

Should we be killed every time we disobey? That was the command given of a child when they disobey. They were to be stoned to death. Killing a human does not remove their sin nature. There will not be outright sin nor a sin nature. Yet a child that rebels will be killed.

A nation as a corporate body of humans will not all be killed off for failure of not sending a yearly delegation. Nor will they get away with not fulfilling their commitment. The point would be why would a nation fail in their obligation to begin with? Obviously if the whole class kept getting punished because one student kept acting up, that one student would be severely dealt with. If a whole nation kept acting up, the other nations would demand they all be killed. The tribe of Benjamin almost got wiped off the map because they messed up. All that happened under the Law of sin and death.

Zechariah gave a worse case scenario, letting us know disobedience will not be tolerated. It will be dealt with. That disobedience would ever happen is not impossible, just improbable. The example here and in Isaiah 65 is not because there will be sin present. It shows that Christ will deal with disobedience, with instant death. Yet a nation will have to tow the line as a corporate entity. If there are laws, that does not mean that sin and a sin nature is present. This creation would not operate without laws. Creation is not a programmed pre-determined robot. The difference is that sin will not be the consequence of any one human's disobedience. Death will be a punishment, just like before Adam sinned. It will also be a place of different cultures, and ethnicities.

At the end of the thousand years, all those who wanted to rebel are given an opportunity to step up. We know if they do, they will be consumed by fire. But to say that Christ will allow any disobedience to fester is missing the point of God's goodness. Adam was never forced by circumstances nor Satan nor God to one day just up and disobey. There was a command given, and Adam knew the consequences was death. After a few people die, even those not understanding what death is will soon figure it out. Adam had to figure it out by faith, that death was desirable. There was literally no death until Adam disobeyed. Eve did not die, until after Adam ate. The command was not given to Eve.

 

[trophy33]

Yet a child that rebels will be killed....

The point would be why would a nation fail in their obligation to begin with? ...disobedience will not be tolerated... Christ will deal with disobedience, with instant death... Death will be a punishment...

Would you like to live in such tyranny? Not too many people would be still alive in the end of the 1000 years to rebel, under such strict rules.

If a whole nation kept acting up, the other nations would demand they all be killed...

Genocide?

You are describing a worse life than we have now. What would be a benefit of such millenium? Just a longevity of few sinless people and all animals eating grass?

 

[trophy33]

Some examples of chilliasm in history:

1. The Christian Empire (later called The Holy Roman Empire) lasted almost exactly 1000 years (800 AD - 1806 AD).
It ended because of Napoleon, who was seen by many as the Antichrist/beast.

2. Byzantian empire (395-1493) again roughly 1000 years.
It ended by muslim attacks and Islam/Mohammed was seen by many as the Antichrist/beast.

3. There was also a large "last days" movement in AD 1000.

---

Imagine what Christians must have thought in those times. Compared to them, our today's futurists "last days evidence" is quite pale.

 

[trophy33]

Rev 1:1—'The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants what things must shortly come to pass.’

Rev 1:3—'Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and
keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.’

Rev 22:10—'And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for
the time is at hand.’

Rev 22:6—'And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true; and the Lord God of
the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be
done.’

Rev. 22:7—'Behold, I come quickly.’

Rev. 22:12—'Behold, I come quickly.’

Rev. 22:20—'Surely I come quickly.’

-----

The author of Revelation said to the the readers in the 1st century that the book is about things that will happen to them. Not about things that will happen 2,000 years after them. Just this one plain evidence in the book of Revelation itself makes the predictions of futurism false.

 

[Timtofly]

Would you like to live in such tyranny? Not too many people would be still alive in the end of the 1000 years to rebel, under such strict rules.


Genocide?

You are describing a worse life than we have now. What would be a benefit of such millenium? Just a longevity of few sinless people and all animals eating grass?

You really really don't understand how creation works without sin or a sin nature.

You are looking at legalism through the carnal Law of Moses. The task master that amplifies sin. The Law does not ease creation, it puts it under the bondage of Mt. Sinai. That is how you view reality. That is not how the Millennium will operate.

Do you think the natural laws programmed into creation are too strict and should be broken? Satan thought he could do better than God. God was not strict enough with humanity, so we got sin, a sin nature, and the earth groans under this bondage proposed by Satan. Now that God will lift these sanctions of Satan, you think God will be more strict than Satan?

 

[Timtofly]

Rev 1:1—'The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants what things must shortly come to pass.’

Rev 1:3—'Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and
keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.’

Rev 22:10—'And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for
the time is at hand.’

Rev 22:6—'And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true; and the Lord God of
the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be
done.’

Rev. 22:7—'Behold, I come quickly.’

Rev. 22:12—'Behold, I come quickly.’

Rev. 22:20—'Surely I come quickly.’

-----

The author of Revelation said to the the readers in the 1st century that the book is about things that will happen to them. Not about things that will happen 2,000 years after them. Just this one plain evidence in the book of Revelation itself makes the predictions of futurism false.

Except it has been 1900 years, and those words are just as true now as they were then.

 

[trophy33]

Except it has been 1900 years, and those words are just as true now as they were then.

Yes, its still true that He came quickly and that all happened soon.

 

[trophy33]

You really really don't understand how creation works without sin or a sin nature.

You are looking at legalism through the carnal Law of Moses. The task master that amplifies sin. The Law does not ease creation, it puts it under the bondage of Mt. Sinai. That is how you view reality. That is not how the Millennium will operate.

Do you think the natural laws programmed into creation are too strict and should be broken? Satan thought he could do better than God. God was not strict enough with humanity, so we got sin, a sin nature, and the earth groans under this bondage proposed by Satan. Now that God will lift these sanctions of Satan, you think God will be more strict than Satan?

What does the law of Moses have to do with it?

Your hypothesis about how we got the sinful nature is a known one, but its based on the misreading of Augustin, when he commented the letter to Romans.

 

[Timtofly]

What does the law of Moses have to do with it?

Your hypothesis about how we got the sinful nature is a known one, but its based on the misreading of Augustin, when he commented the letter to Romans.

Because you are describing the 1000 year reign according to the Law of Moses.

 

[trophy33]

Because you are describing the 1000 year reign according to the Law of Moses.

I do not understand what you mean. I just react to what you personally described.

 

[Timtofly]

I do not understand what you mean. I just react to what you personally described.

You claimed Christ would be too strict.

 

[trophy33]

You claimed Christ would be too strict.

You said: "Christ will deal with disobedience, with instant death."
Or: "If a whole nation kept acting up, the other nations would demand they all be killed..."

And I asked you if you would like to live in such tyranny. And you began to talk about the law of Moses, not sure why.

 

[Timtofly]

You said: "Christ will deal with disobedience, with instant death."
Or: "If a whole nation kept acting up, the other nations would demand they all be killed..."

And I asked you if you would like to live in such tyranny. And you began to talk about the law of Moses, not sure why.

That is not what I said. I said a nation like a classroom, would demand those acting up be dealt with, so the whole classroom is not in "time out". The example was Egypt. If all of Egypt kept getting cursed, then the Egyptians would have to figure out why they are suffering as a group and change their leadership to avoid being cursed.

You are calling it a tyranny because of the word Law. As in under the Law of Moses. That would be a tyranny based on sin and a sin nature.

The iron rule law is a blessing. Because Death is instant when it comes to disobedience. God does not impose the death sentence of sin on future generations. Tyranny is being under the bondage of a sin nature.

 

[trophy33]

That is not what I said.

You said it in the post #365 Preterism, both full & partial, are false.

You are calling it a tyranny because of the word Law. As in under the Law of Moses. That would be a tyranny based on sin and a sin nature.
The iron rule law is a blessing. Because Death is instant when it comes to disobedience. God does not impose the death sentence of sin on future generations. Tyranny is being under the bondage of a sin nature.

I do not understand what you are saying so let us move on.

 

[keras]

I have already said; Jesus has the authority, but the drama of the ages must play out. People still have the choice; with their freewill, to obey God or follow Satan.
Only after Jesus Returns, will Satan be chained up and there will be no sin during the Millennium. But when the thousand years is finished, Satan will be released and will again deceive many. To their Eternal loss.
I'm away for the next week. Try to consider what God is aiming to achieve.

Reply to Parousia:
Yes, in the Millennium, people will still be able to make mistakes and wrong choices. But Satan won't be around to deceive us.

What is God aiming to achieve?
A people who have freely chosen to obey Him and keep His Commandments. His Witnesses and His friends.
ALL those who reject Him and rebel. will be annihilated. Rev 20:14-15

 

[robycop3]

Reply to Parousia:
Yes, in the Millennium, people will still be able to make mistakes and wrong choices. But Satan won't be around to deceive us.

What is God aiming to achieve?
A people who have freely chosen to obey Him and keep His Commandments. His Witnesses and His friends.
ALL those who reject Him and rebel. will be annihilated. Rev 20:14-15

Well, actually, the unsaved will spend eternity in hell, the lake of fire. "Annihilationsim" isn't true.