Preterism, both full & partial, are false.

[robycop3]

None of what you said is scriptural. That's why you didn't use any scripture to back it up.
John 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side.....
Doesn't sound healed to me if Thomas can put his hand in His side. And you claim that's His glorious body?
And where in scripture does it say that His body of flesh was glorified?
Where does it say He'll return in the flesh?
Based on the following, how do you expect to see Him?
Acts 7: 49“‘Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
What kind of house will you build for me, says the Lord,
or what is the place of my rest?
50Did not my hand make all these things?’

It's VERY Scriptural. If you had a fresh spear wound in your side, could you stand someone sticking a hand in it? Yes, Jesus was still in the body He died in, but it'd been modified; otherwise He couldn't've survived the spear would, which was meant to kill Him, were He still alive when it was given.

He will return physically & visibly, but He won't be in the flesh. John wrote that His eyes will be as flames of fire. Remember, He said every eye will see Him.

 

[3 Resurrections]

He will return physically & visibly, but He won't be in the flesh.

The returning Christ is portrayed as coming in the same glorified body of flesh as when He left this planet in AD 33.
When Christ returns, He is still being called "the Son of Man" at His return.

"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of MAN coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." (Matthew 24:30). If Christ Jesus at His return were not still in the glorified resurrected body He left with, the scripture would not be putting emphasis on His identity as the "Son of MAN" at this point.

Scripture puts great emphasis on Jesus retaining His glorified, resurrected body of human flesh in heaven, so that He can continue to be a "merciful and faithful high priest".

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus." (1 Timothy 2:5).

 

[robycop3]

The returning Christ is portrayed as coming in the same glorified body of flesh as when He left this planet in AD 33.
When Christ returns, He is still being called "the Son of Man" at His return.

"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of MAN coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." (Matthew 24:30). If Christ Jesus at His return were not still in the glorified resurrected body He left with, the scripture would not be putting emphasis on His identity as the "Son of MAN" at this point.

Scripture puts great emphasis on Jesus retaining His glorified, resurrected body of human flesh in heaven, so that He can continue to be a "merciful and faithful high priest".

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus." (1 Timothy 2:5).

Jesus became the Son of man when He was born as a human from a human woman. Just because His body has changed doesn't mean HE has changed.

What does this have to do with preterism?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Jesus became the Son of man when He was born as a human from a human woman. Just because His body has changed doesn't mean HE has changed.

What does this have to do with preterism?

I am responding to your statement that Jesus's return will not be "in the flesh". This sounds disturbingly like Full Preterism, which tries to get rid of any sense of Christ currently having His glorified, resurrected human body in heaven. They also deny that Christ will return in that glorified, resurrected body of human flesh that He displayed for the disciples' inspection the evening after His resurrection. Why would you wish to adopt that kind of Full Preterist language, especially when your post's theme is opposed to Preterism of any kind?

 

[trophy33]

This sounds disturbingly like Full Preterism, which tries to get rid of any sense of Christ currently having His glorified, resurrected human body in heaven. They also deny that Christ will return in that glorified, resurrected body of human flesh that He displayed for the disciples' inspection the evening after His resurrection.

This does not sound like full preterism.

Full preterism says that Jesus returned in the past, in the first century. It does not claim anything regarding the nature of His body.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Full preterism says that Jesus returned in the past, in the first century. It does not claim anything regarding the nature of His body.

Well, yes, they certainly do. I was a member for some time on a Full Preterist site several years ago, (which has since closed down), and I was the lone proponent in discussions about the true nature of Christ's glorified, resurrected human body which is still present in heaven today. The rest who responded denied this. (In case you are wondering, I have online memberships across the board of the entire eschatological spectrum.)

Perhaps you yourself are not one that makes a claim denying the nature of Christ's risen, glorified body, but it seems to be the favored consensus of Full Preterism that Christ's risen human body form was discarded at the ascension, and that He exists merely as Spirit since then. Oddly enough, I find echoes of this idea cropping up elsewhere in others who are not even remotely connected with Preterism at all. Such as this statement above by robycop3, who has always made it most clear that he is opposed to anything Preteristic at all.

 

[robycop3]

I am responding to your statement that Jesus's return will not be "in the flesh". This sounds disturbingly like Full Preterism, which tries to get rid of any sense of Christ currently having His glorified, resurrected human body in heaven. They also deny that Christ will return in that glorified, resurrected body of human flesh that He displayed for the disciples' inspection the evening after His resurrection. Why would you wish to adopt that kind of Full Preterist language, especially when your post's theme is opposed to Preterism of any kind?

I said, and I fully believe that Jesus will return physically and visibly. But in FLESH?? Remember, Scripture says His eyes will be as a flame of fire. No flesh has eyes like that.
And ramember, full prets strangely believe He has already returned. I don't believe that; I believe such a notion is absurd.

 

[3 Resurrections]

And ramember, full prets strangely believe He has already returned. I don't believe that; I believe such a notion is absurd.

Full Preterists do not ever say that Christ returned in His glorified, resurrected human body. Such an idea is literally repugnant to them.

A study of the nature and features of Christ's resurrected human body form made of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39) is an intriguing one. We study this topic, because it is the same hope for our own glorified, resurrected bodies of flesh and bone that we will eventually receive, since we are called "joint heirs" with Christ in Romans 8:17.

Christ's glorified, resurrected human body of flesh and bones was able to change form, as Mark 16:12 tells us. This is why those two on the road to Emmaus did not recognize Him as they walked with Him. This is also why the risen Christ appears in a more glorious form for John to see in his visions.

 

[trophy33]

Perhaps you yourself are not one that makes a claim denying the nature of Christ's risen, glorified body, but it seems to be the favored consensus of Full Preterism that Christ's risen human body form was discarded at the ascension...

You are the first man I hear it from. Never heard before.

And I read/watched a lot of sources on the topic.

 

[robycop3]

Full Preterists do not ever say that Christ returned in His glorified, resurrected human body. Such an idea is literally repugnant to them.

A study of the nature and features of Christ's resurrected human body form made of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39) is an intriguing one. We study this topic, because it is the same hope for our own glorified, resurrected bodies of flesh and bone that we will eventually receive, since we are called "joint heirs" with Christ in Romans 8:17.

Christ's glorified, resurrected human body of flesh and bones was able to change form, as Mark 16:12 tells us. This is why those two on the road to Emmaus did not recognize Him as they walked with Him. This is also why the risen Christ appears in a more glorious form for John to see in his visions.

I don't dwell on what kinda body I'll have in the next world. I only know it'll be better than the one I'm in now. No arthritis, etc.) And I know preterism, both full or partial, is false.

 

[3 Resurrections]

You are the first man I hear it from. Never heard before.

And I read/watched a lot of sources on the topic.

If you have read and watched a lot of sources, then you are probably familiar with Sam Frost who left Full Preterism, and his ongoing battle with the "grandfather" of the Full Preterist movement on this very subject and others. I don't agree with Sam Frost on everything with his current eschatology stance (he sort of threw the baby out with the bath water), but his blog is "Vigilate et Orate" ("Watch and Pray"). The "grandfather" (DP) is quite vocal on this very point of Christ's glorified, resurrected body disappearing at His ascension. He is joined by other pastor Full Preterists on this, although I don't wish to give them more "press" on this topic.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I don't dwell on what kinda body I'll have in the next world.

That's too bad, because you miss a blessing by avoiding the subject. We are given written examples and proof in the scripture of this type of body, so it is not something to dismiss lightly. After all, it is the future hope for all of us believers which the unbelievers will never experience.

This is really strange. Me, the Preterist, who loves to dwell on the subject of our future glorified, resurrected bodies, and you, the anti-Preterist, likes to avoid the subject.

Veeeeeery strange....

 

[trophy33]

If you have read and watched a lot of sources, then you are probably familiar with Sam Frost...

No. And google found only some actor or football player.

My main sources were Russell, R.C.Sproul and online forums. But its possible I watched something from him, just not knowing the name.

Did Russell or Sproul believed the same thing?

 

[robycop3]

If you have read and watched a lot of sources, then you are probably familiar with Sam Frost who left Full Preterism, and his ongoing battle with the "grandfather" of the Full Preterist movement on this very subject and others. I don't agree with Sam Frost on everything with his current eschatology stance (he sort of threw the baby out with the bath water), but his blog is "Vigilate et Orate" ("Watch and Pray"). The "grandfather" (DP) is quite vocal on this very point of Christ's glorified, resurrected body disappearing at His ascension. He is joined by other pastor Full Preterists on this, although I don't wish to give them more "press" on this topic.

It's all horse feathers. Jesus disappeared into a cloud, same as an aircraft does. When the nature of His body changed, I don't know nor am I concerned with it. I just know it HAPPENED.

 

[robycop3]

That's too bad, because you miss a blessing by avoiding the subject. We are given written examples and proof in the scripture of this type of body, so it is not something to dismiss lightly. After all, it is the future hope for all of us believers which the unbelievers will never experience.

This is really strange. Me, the Preterist, who loves to dwell on the subject of our future glorified, resurrected bodies, and you, the anti-Preterist, likes to avoid the subject.

Veeeeeery strange....

I only know it'll be infinitely better than the body I have now. For now, I'll stay with the life & tasks God has given me here. And Paul wrote that we can't even imagine the good things God has for us in the next world.

 

[trophy33]

I was a member for some time on a Full Preterist site several years ago

I have an experience that specialized forums/websites (for preterists, YEC, calvinists, catholics, whatever) are frequently slipping into a bit weird communities, because of the isolation. More extreme or exotic opinions are more common there.

Thats why I like this website, where people of various opinions get together to balance extremes out, but still to provide information from a broad spectrum of beliefs.

 

[3 Resurrections]

When the nature of His body changed, I don't know nor am I concerned with it. I just know it HAPPENED.

NO, it did NOT happen. The nature of Christ's glorified, resurrected human body did not change from the moment when He first stepped out of the grave, and it is still the same today. That glorious body which Christ had at His resurrection "continueth ever", as Hebrews tells us. He "ever liveth" to make intercession for us, by forming the human / divine bridge of communion between God and man. If Christ discarded that human form at His ascension or changed its nature, then you and I have no representative before God in heaven; none of your prayers are heard, and salvation is not secured for anyone.

Christ's glorified, resurrected body can take another form, and change how it appears to others, (as in Mark 16:12), but that does not change its nature.

. And Paul wrote that we can't even imagine the good things God has for us in the next world.

I suppose you are thinking of the Isaiah 64:4 text repeated by Paul in 1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written, 'Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.' "

But you haven't finished the thought in the very next verse, "But God HATH revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God." (1 Corinthians 2:10). What was yet unrevealed to mankind back in Isaiah 64:4 was brought to light in the NT days, once Christ had been resurrected along with the other resurrected Matthew 27:52-53 saints that day.

Don't shortchange yourself, robycop3. There is more information in scripture available to you than you suppose.

 

[robycop3]

NO, it did NOT happen. The nature of Christ's glorified, resurrected human body did not change from the moment when He first stepped out of the grave, and it is still the same today. That glorious body which Christ had at His resurrection "continueth ever", as Hebrews tells us. He "ever liveth" to make intercession for us, by forming the human / divine bridge of communion between God and man. If Christ discarded that human form at His ascension or changed its nature, then you and I have no representative before God in heaven; none of your prayers are heard, and salvation is not secured for anyone.

Christ's glorified, resurrected body can take another form, and change how it appears to others, (as in Mark 16:12), but that does not change its nature.



I suppose you are thinking of the Isaiah 64:4 text repeated by Paul in 1 Corinthians 2:9, "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

But you haven't finished the thought in the very next verse, "But God HATH revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God." (1 Corinthians 2:10). What was yet unrevealed to mankind back in Isaiah 64:4 was brought to light in the NT days, once Christ had been resurrected along with the other resurrected Matthew 27:52-53 saints that day.

Don't shortchange yourself, robycop3. There is more information in scripture available to you than you suppose.

Again, I'm not concerned about the future, as I know it'll be infinitely better than the present. But yes, I was thinking about what you mentioned, except I don't use the outdated KJV with its goofs & booboos.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I was thinking about what you mentioned, except I don't use the outdated KJV with its goofs & booboos.

If you don't like the KJV version of 1 Corinthians 2:10 I quoted above, then by all means, pick another one on the same text, since the generic meaning is the same. I just quote from the KJV because it was what I memorized from early childhood, but I am well aware of some of its weak points.

God has already revealed much of what Isaiah 64:4 said had not yet been heard or seen up until he wrote his prophecies. That is the blessing of the New Covenant. We are quite a bit better informed as to many of the mysteries that the Old Covenant had not yet revealed, thanks in large measure to Paul (and Christ) letting us know. One of those revealed mysteries is what a glorified, resurrected body form for a saint is like: how it appears to sight and touch, how it functions, and what its capabilities are.

Again, I'm not concerned about the future, as I know it'll be infinitely better than the present

Again, this is veeeeeery strange. Me, the Preterist, concentrates more on the future expectations of the saints in this life and the next than you do as a fervent anti-Preterist. It seems that I am more futuristic than you are in some ways.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I have an experience that specialized forums/websites (for preterists, YEC, calvinists, catholics, whatever) are frequently slipping into a bit weird communities, because of the isolation. More extreme or exotic opinions are more common there.

Thats why I like this website, where people of various opinions get together to balance extremes out, but still to provide information from a broad spectrum of beliefs.

I agree, it's a good variety here, but in reality, everyone of us is someone else's "extremist". My mom used to quote what she said was an old Quaker proverb, "The whole world's queer except me and thee, and sometimes methinks thee's a little queer too."

Did Russell or Sproul believed the same thing?

To my knowledge, neither Russell nor Sproul taught that the glorified, resurrected body of Christ changed at His ascension.