Not to mention a little gross. I'm not sure I'd compare the word of God or Sacred Tradition to that particular bodily orifice.
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. - 1 Corinthians 5:1-5
Yes Revelation not read, however, your mass displays many of the imagery of Revelation.Tobit and Revelation are not Apocryphal they are Anagignoskomena, 'worthy to be read'. This means they are scripture but not read publicly out loud in Liturgy.
I would consider the above inaccurate.So you agree that protestant bibles did not exist before the Reformation? They are fairly modern western constructs, its current table of contents of today being a product of mass printing hence the populace only knew the newly mass produced table of contents ?
I would add to your very good explanation the fact Paul stated he would be absent from his body, present with the Lord when our perishable flesh dies. 2 Corinthians 4:16 through 2 Corinthians 5:9.This is only partially the semitic understanding. In fact this is the standard Mesopotamian understanding as its also held amongst the Persians and Assyrians.
The nephesh or soul or life force of the body is interwined as the oil in its vessel. Upon death the soul (characterized in the OT as the life blood Genesis 9:4-5 ) is buried with its body as both components are an intrinsic aspect of itself, but the soul remains in a semi-conscious state. While it is expected this composite nature should rest in peace the nephesh can still be summoned at anytime. Hence, God told Cain that his brothers blood is crying out to him from the earth (Genesis 4:10) and the witch of Endor was able to summon the prophet Samuel ( 1 Samuel 28:13 ). On the other hand ALL men ALSO have a ruah (spirit) this ruah- spirit automatically ascends to God whom gave it. Advocates of soul sleep never want to mention the Ruah which is awake and with God as its the spark which is respoinsible for making man in His image and likeness. This is found in numerous old testament passages including the new testament. ( Ecclesiastes 12:7 2 Samuel 12:23 Philippians 1:22-24 Luke 23:46)
Paul was aware and held to this belief of the tripartite aspect of man: "And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thess 5:23)
"For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart." (NIV) (Hebrews 4:12)
I would consider the above inaccurate.
There is ancient attestation for the 66 book canon.
With the exception of Esther, it matches the Athanasius canon as indicated in his Thirty-Ninth Festal Epistle, A.D. 367.
Athanasius on the Canon of Scripture
The adoration of saints and archangels is one of the fundamental elements of the Babylonian/Chaldean religion (astrolatry). One poster defends the practice using language of kabbalah and claims it's inherently semetic. This is not the case. Kabbalah is the Jewish adaptation of the Chaldean Mysteries. They picked it up during the captivity around 600 BC along with the book of Enoch which contains Chaldean deamonology. Prior to this time period there is no evidence that the Hebrews, Phoenicians, Sumerians, Hittites or other semetic cultures believed in a conscious afterlife and more evidence suggests otherwise. The original rites and ceremonies themselves were allegories of the stages the 'soul' passes through in its decent into the underworld of the collective unconscious and race memory... i could discuss that in detail. There is no indication that the religious elite believed in a conscious afterlife regardless of what the common folk thought.
In regards to scriptures speaking of being with the Lord instantly on death, the argument is that 10,000 years between death and resurrection is a blink of an eye to a dead person.
The souls of the dead can be powerful images used in ritual magic, one can even conjur and speak to these spirits or the spirits can communicate in dreams and visions but rest assured it is not the actual person and there is no consciousness involved.
Sure, the saints and angels represent great virtues that we can all revere but let it be known that the whole practice and cosmological worldview is that of mystery Babylon.
My concern is not exactly Christians practicing magic, because it's all throughout the OT, my concern is that many do not understand the magic they are practicing. The Chaldean institutionalised mysteries serve to watch over the organization and make it more powerful in the individual and collective mind rather than truly promote the essence of the spirits themselves.
It's late and I'm ranting and perhaps said nothing of value lol.
I dont have issues with any Christians from any background. I only have issues with darkness in high places.
You still do not understand. The original usage is the accurate one. Many of these prayers were written centuries ago and the vernacular when written is what they mean. Not what modern culture changes it to. example; every time the Flintstones theme plays, 'gay' still means happy and nothing else - regardless of what our culture thinks. "pray" as written into the ancient prayers still means exactly what it meant when written.
I believe in the resurrection of the dead to eternal life. I'm weary of any religion that downplays or denies the existence of death as that puts Christianity in the same group as every other pagan religion and removes the necessary role of christ. I dont think the belief is particularly as damaging as others nor do I believe it affects the state of ones salvation...What do you believe about eternity? Do you believe in the resurrection of the dead?
Angels are not omnipresent. So I don't that to be a valid argument as to why saints can't be involved in the handling of prayers.
Rev 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 8:4
And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
Forgive me...
What?! You mean the supreme standard for what the original Christian beliefs were is not the only wholly inspired substantive word of God, but the uninspired record of Catholic accretion of traditions of men?So you disagree with our faith, the original Christian beliefs. I get that.
Indeed, as warned, in addition to false teaching in the church.Many fell away before Jesus was even crucified. Many more left afterward.
Which is a mere assertion, which those who sat in the seat of Moses could have used (and essentially did) against a band of itinerant preachers who reproved them by Scripture and established their claims upon Scriptural substantiation in word and in power.That doesn't make the teaching and belief wrong, in any way. It only makes your interpretation different than what was meant and taught. But it is scriptural. It's your interpretation that's not.
Really? Then read Acts thru Revelation and tell me where you see PTCBIH. But no, it must be that you are arguing that uninspired post-apostolic men and ultimately your church is the supreme authority, based on upon the premise that the stewards of Divine revelation must be the faithful interpreters of it. Which in principal invalidates the NT church itself.How do we know? The disciples of the apostles who wrote the NT tell us.
The Mormons and like cults claim the same, and faced with the absence of even one prayer to anyone else in Heaven by believers in over 200 prayers to Heaven, the appeal to another stream of revelation is the classic Catholic recourse.Remember, we have more than only Scripture, we have Sacred Tradition, which provides context to what the Bible teaches.
You can believe what you must, but there are zero examples of prayer to anyone else in Heaven by believers in over 200 prayers to Heaven in Scripture.No, I believe he did provide many examples, which you discount.
The analogy of your opinion is apt. SS preachers can enjoin obedience to the oral preaching of the word, under the premise that it is Scripture, as that of the apostles was, but as said, men like the apostles could speak as wholly inspired of God, and also provide new public revelation, neither of which RC popes claim to do.So you don't get the point, which is obvious. Your criticisms are your opinion. Which is like anuses. Everyone has one and everyone else's stinks. Mine is the word of God in the Sacred Tradition, as Paul told us to follow.
What?! You mean the supreme standard for what the original Christian beliefs were is not the only wholly inspired substantive word of God, but the uninspired record of Catholic accretion of traditions of men?
Which simply does not translate into praying to them in Heaven, which is nowhere seen in over 200 prayers by believers in Scripture. Only pagans prayed to someone else but God in heaven.Didn't read past the first page.
The saints are alive in Christ.
Which is a mere assertion, but which also simply does not translate into praying to them in Heaven.Mary, the Theotokos (God bearer) does intercede for us through prayer, as do ALL the saints.
Which is a case of praying for souls who were executed by God due to mortal sin - for which Rome says there is not hope - in hope that they would see the resurrection (of the just), and not escape from RC purgatory.Also, on a related note, we don't pray to the dead but for the dead. Scripture supports it.
Presuming presumed Onesiphorus was dead, this is more a wish than a prayer, that of mercy at the judgment seat of Christ, and it is not a prayer for escape from Purgatory.This is considered to be a direct reference to a prayer for a departed person in the NT:
Only pagans prayed to someone else but God in heaven.
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