Post-tribulation Rapture Believers Safe House

[zeke73]

Let's be clear, the "pre-wrath" position is not the same as post-trib. Those believers do not belong here.

I'm definitely a post-tribulation believer in the rapture so I belong here. Revelation 6 & 7 confirms that the catching away of the church is POST-TRIBULATION.

Jesus said the tribulation ENDS just before the 6th seal when the sun and moon darken and the stars fall.

Matt 24: 29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


The 6th seal, when the sun and moon darken and stars fall, is when wrath begins.


Rev 6: 12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?



The church is not appointed to suffer wrath (1 Thess 5) and Revelation shows the white-robed (given in 5th seal) raptured church standing in heaven, having come out of great tribulation, before wrath begins.


Rev 7: 9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

These scriptures PROVE the catching away of the church to God is POST-TRIBULATION.

You'd think that post-tribulation believers, like myself, would be thrilled with such irrefutable, Scriptural evidence that the catching away of the church to the throne of God is POST-TRIBULATION as I've pointed out here, PROVING that I am definitely a POST-TRIBULATION rapture believer!

So why am I being dissed?

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Tribulation refines our faith.

THE tribulation will refine our spirits. Refined by fire. Fire symbolizing tribulation.

Separating the wheat from the chaff. The chaff will blow along with the coming apostasy and fail to forsee our Lord's coming, instead hoping the utopia is indeed His Kingdom. The wheat however will be taken, first into the wilderness for protection, but by faith, similarly to our Hebrew ancestors in the desert before their own redemption. Then, when all hope seems lost, the Lord will answer those souls who have died in His name, and call them up in a ressurection, and call those who remain in a rapture.

Of course, recognizing satans kingdom is key to abstaining from the coming apostate utopia.

 

[ciel_perdu]

Hi,

I wanted to share my thoughts on this topic. It's encouraging to see Christians preparing for the great Tribulation.

Indeed, Jesus says in Matthew 24, that it is ''immediately AFTER the tribulation'' that the sun will be darkened etc, and ''then with the sound of a TRUMPET'' he will send his angels to gather the elect.

In 1 Corinthians 15:51, Paul say ''Behold I show you a mystery at the sound of the LAST TRUMPET the will shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye''

And in 1 Thessalonians 4, he repeats that ''At the sound of a TRUMP, the dead shall be raised and we which are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air''

And then, as someone rightly shared previously that the last trumpet in Revelation 7 is when the Jesus returns. Those trumpets in the Revelation ARE the great Tribulation.

From my study of the Daniel, 8, 9 and 12, and from the Revelation, I see that there will be a final 7 year period prior to the return of Jesus. The first 3 and half years will be a world peace. Halfway through the 7 years, he will cause the abomination of desolation, and the great tribulation will begin. We will then have 3 and half years until Jesus returns. At some point during all of this (not sure when), but the Mark of the Beast will be enacted, and people will be forced to choose whether there faith is in Money (the Mark) to provide all they need, of if it is in God. The Revelation gives dire warning to those who take the Mark. Anyway, there could be a lot said about these and other various things, but I thought I would say this much of what I believe.

I think the important thing with prophecy is not so much accurately predicting everything, because we really can't until things get down the wire, but what spiritual lessons do we need to learn in order to prepare for what is going to come.

For example, the Mark of the Beast. A time is coming when we won't be able to buy or sell. We won't be able to own land etc. We will need to live by faith. And that's when we come back to Jesus' teaching in Matthew 6 about working for money and living by faith, letting God provide for us, like he does for the birds and the flowers.

Anyway, that's one example of how spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus. Prophecy should lead us to the teachings of Jesus, and the teachings of Jesus should help us to understand prophecy.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Hi,

I wanted to share my thoughts on this topic. It's encouraging to see Christians preparing for the great Tribulation.

Indeed, Jesus says in Matthew 24, that it is ''immediately AFTER the tribulation'' that the sun will be darkened etc, and ''then with the sound of a TRUMPET'' he will send his angels to gather the elect.

In 1 Corinthians 15:51, Paul say ''Behold I show you a mystery at the sound of the LAST TRUMPET the will shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye''

And in 1 Thessalonians 4, he repeats that ''At the sound of a TRUMP, the dead shall be raised and we which are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air''

And then, as someone rightly shared previously that the last trumpet in Revelation 7 is when the Jesus returns. Those trumpets in the Revelation ARE the great Tribulation.

From my study of the Daniel, 8, 9 and 12, and from the Revelation, I see that there will be a final 7 year period prior to the return of Jesus. The first 3 and half years will be a world peace. Halfway through the 7 years, he will cause the abomination of desolation, and the great tribulation will begin. We will then have 3 and half years until Jesus returns. At some point during all of this (not sure when), but the Mark of the Beast will be enacted, and people will be forced to choose whether there faith is in Money (the Mark) to provide all they need, of if it is in God. The Revelation gives dire warning to those who take the Mark. Anyway, there could be a lot said about these and other various things, but I thought I would say this much of what I believe.

I think the important thing with prophecy is not so much accurately predicting everything, because we really can't until things get down the wire, but what spiritual lessons do we need to learn in order to prepare for what is going to come.

For example, the Mark of the Beast. A time is coming when we won't be able to buy or sell. We won't be able to own land etc. We will need to live by faith. And that's when we come back to Jesus' teaching in Matthew 6 about working for money and living by faith, letting God provide for us, like he does for the birds and the flowers.

Anyway, that's one example of how spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus. Prophecy should lead us to the teachings of Jesus, and the teachings of Jesus should help us to understand prophecy.

Very good post.

 

[4runner]

Now that we have our own thread, how do we convince the pre-tribbers that the rapture is really at the end?

We dont, we just give them the truth, and let God convince them

 

[4runner]

One thing we could possibly do is document and outline post-trib from a Scriptural standpoint. That way this thread could serve as a place where people can see the view laid out point by point. They will also be better able to gauge why we believe as we do. Since the thread is stickied, it would serve as a convenient place for people searching for information about post-trib. Just a thought.

6 points that prove post trib rapture (scripture included)

#1 Matt 24:29-31 and mark 13:24-27 say that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and that there is a gathering of the elect at that time.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

#2 1st Thess 4:15-17 and 1st cor 15:20-23 say that the resurrection of the just/rapture is at the 2nd coming.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they they are Christ at his coming.

#3 1st Cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation, the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.
1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


#4 Luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked (which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.

2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.

#5 John 6:39,40,44,and 54 all say Jesus said that he would raise us up at the last day (not 7yrs b4 ).
John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

#6 Rev 20 :4-6 says that the 1st resurrection is after the trib we know this because it includes tribulational martyrs as well as others that refuse to worship the beast or take his mark during the trib.There can be no resurrection of dead saints at a pretrib rapture b4 the 1st resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.

 

[4runner]

Theres only one problem with all the tribulation threads. They are all looking at the wrong tribulation period for their doctrine. There is one that comes at the very end, right after the millennium and this is where Matt 24 and Thess's take place.
Sorry if I'm out of topic but did not know where else to post this.

Hismessenger

The problwem is most post trib believers as well as myself are historical premillennialist, therefore we realize, as the apostles, and their disciples taught, that the great Tribulation occurs before the millennium not after it. However this is off topic, and i have no plan to turn this into a debate

 

[4runner]

Let's be clear, the "pre-wrath" position is not the same as post-trib. Those believers do not belong here.

Technecally all rapture believers are pre-wrath believers. The difference is what people claim to be the wrath. Pre-tribbers say the whole ''7yr'' period is the wrath, mid tribbers believe that only the 2nd 1/2 of the 7yr period is the wrath, the ''pre-wrath believers think that the bowls of wrath is the wrath, while post tribbers believe the destruction of the wicked at the post trib return of Christ is the wrath. Every believes they will be removed before the wrath so who is right? Lets let scripture answer that one.

Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.

Sounds like post trib are the correct one.

So like i said technecally all believers are pre-wrath, those that use the title ''pre-wrath'' really do not belong in a poct trib safe room

 

[4runner]

The rapture is most definitely POST-TRIBULATION and is confirmed in Revelation 6 & 7 as such.

What you don't understand is that there is a SCRIPTURAL difference between "tribulation" and "wrath".

The church, every single member, has endured the tribulation. John even said he was in it in Revelation 1. It is wrath that we are not appointed to suffer and will be removed prior to.

should something be done about hisdaughterjen or what ever other nic she uses posting in here. although she claim she is ''post trib'' she is clearly pretrib, she has just change the meaning of the words tribulation, wrath ect.... She has come here to debate and i thought this was a post trib safe house. Cant the mods do something about this?

 

[4runner]

P.S. To all, I am a 3,5 yr believer

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

should something be done about hisdaughterjen or what ever other nic she uses posting in here. although she claim she is ''post trib'' she is clearly pretrib, she has just change the meaning of the words tribulation, wrath ect.... She has come here to debate and i thought this was a post trib safe house. Cant the mods do something about this?

While I feel sister Jen does genuinely care for us, it is deceptive for her to assume so very many usernames.

I suppose she feels either threatened by the sheer number of post trib believers and thus creates a vast number of usernames building an imaginary army of pretribbers soas to balance the debate.

Either that or she genuinely has multiple personality disorder and when rebuked she opens a new account until someone rebukes her again.

It is sad, and I thought it might be against forum rules, but I guess they let it slide since she hasn't been banned under the multitude of ids.

 

[cloud watcher]

Hey all! As a result of google searching for "Post Tribulation Forum" I found y'all and very excited! Looking forward to great conversation and fellowship with fellow post trib brothers and sisters!

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Hey all! As a result of google searching for "Post Tribulation Forum" I found y'all and very excited! Looking forward to great conversation and fellowship with fellow post trib brothers and sisters!

Welcome to our church without wall or window.
i am sure you will enjoy your time spent here.

 

[ciel_perdu]

I would like to discuss the Mark of the Beast, because I feel it's significant that most people who don't want to talk about this are pre-trib people, and so they simply dismiss it by saying they won't be here for it. Considering we have a forum here for people how know that we will be going through the Great Tribulation, I feel the topic of the Mark is pertinant to us as Christians.

Money used to be made of Gold and Silver ( It still is to a lessening degree), but as time as progressed over the centuries it has made with baser and baser metals. Then money evolved into pieces of paper. There were notes and checks (or cheques depending on your location). Then it evolved further into credit and debit cards. ATM machines popped up all over the world. As we have progressed over the last 50 years we now have smart cards, internet and phone banking, and more and more credit/debit cards at our disposal. Most stores carry their own members cards etc. Money as over the last few years evolved further. Now we have credit and debit cards that you just wave in front of a scanner called ''contactless cards''. There are mobile phones that can do debit/credit transactions, and even a phone in the UK where you just press it against a scanner and you can buy items that are less that 15 British Pounds. And then we have clubs around Europe where people have a microchip implanted in their arm, with which they gain admission and can buy drinks with it. (If people want me to paster links I am more than happy to do so).

All of this is evidence to suggest that the system is moving away from cash and ultimately towards the Mark of the Beast. The microchip by far does seem to be the most likely candidate for what the Mark will likely be. The fact that people have chips in their arm to buy and sell, means that having the chip in a more convenient place (the hand) is not that far away. It makes sense. There are also many practical benefits to a cashless, microchipped society, less fraud, robberies, to name a couple.

People have different theories about WHAT the mark could be, some of them move valid than others, but what I have found is they usually always overlook the very thing we know for certain about the mark, and that is that NO ONE will be able to BUY or SELL without it.

Whatever it will be, it is coming, and we will be here for it. The time is coming when you won't be able to keep your job, your lands, your possessions, even your relationships. Pretty much everyone is going to take the Mark, this means it's likely your family will too. Do you have a faith in God that means you will love Jesus more than them? Do you have a faith in God that means you will forsake everything you own in order to be his disciple? While people continue to set aside money for their kids college fund, take out mortgages and increase their material possessions and plan for their pension, we move silently towards that day when everyone on the planet will have to decide God...or...Money and ALL that it comes with it.

And that is when we come back to Jesus. In Matthew 6:24 he said ''No man can serve two masters, for either he will love one and hate the other, or he will hold to one and despise the other, you cannot serve God and mammon'' So we have a choice daily, who are we going to serve. We show which we love and serve by which we give our TIME to. The Mark of the Beast represents the line in the sand, or should we say concrete, where man once and for all has to delcare their faith, be it in God or money. But that choice is not just in some years ahead, it is a choice we all must face daily. People may think ''How would I survive without my job?'', it's a reasonable question, and one they will have to face when the mark comes, but Jesus already has the answer for us, ''Therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life, for the life is more than meat, and the body more than clothes, look at the birds they toil not, sow or reap, yet God feeds them, or look at the flowers, they spin not, yet God clothes them, how much more better are you than them?...so do not doubt, or ye of little faith, it is your father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom, only seek first the Kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you''.

If we believe that God is going to ressurect us and give us eternal life, we really need to believe that he can feed and clothe us without us having to prostitute our lives for money. That is the faith it will take the reject the mark, but that is that faith that Christ is looking for TODAY.

I would be keen to hear people's thoughts about how we can prepare for the Mark, especially how the lessons we learn from it relate to what Jesus taught. After all the Revelation is 'The Revelation of Jesus Christ'.

 

[spiritman1]

I'm post trib......and think the greatest danger facing the church is the false doctrine that Jesus Christ comes before the antichrist.......this is a new teaching and after more time has past this false doctrine will be a universal teaching as it is being taught in most seminaries today. Most if not all TV evangelist are preaching this errant doctrine and when most Christians who don't even read their bibles are faced with this charismatic antichrist who can call fire down from heaven by his word, they will be lining up in droves to have him take them to heaven

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

I would like to discuss the Mark of the Beast, because I feel it's significant that most people who don't want to talk about this are pre-trib people, and so they simply dismiss it by saying they won't be here for it. Considering we have a forum here for people how know that we will be going through the Great Tribulation, I feel the topic of the Mark is pertinant to us as Christians.

Money used to be made of Gold and Silver ( It still is to a lessening degree), but as time as progressed over the centuries it has made with baser and baser metals. Then money evolved into pieces of paper. There were notes and checks (or cheques depending on your location). Then it evolved further into credit and debit cards. ATM machines popped up all over the world. As we have progressed over the last 50 years we now have smart cards, internet and phone banking, and more and more credit/debit cards at our disposal. Most stores carry their own members cards etc. Money as over the last few years evolved further. Now we have credit and debit cards that you just wave in front of a scanner called ''contactless cards''. There are mobile phones that can do debit/credit transactions, and even a phone in the UK where you just press it against a scanner and you can buy items that are less that 15 British Pounds. And then we have clubs around Europe where people have a microchip implanted in their arm, with which they gain admission and can buy drinks with it. (If people want me to paster links I am more than happy to do so).

All of this is evidence to suggest that the system is moving away from cash and ultimately towards the Mark of the Beast. The microchip by far does seem to be the most likely candidate for what the Mark will likely be. The fact that people have chips in their arm to buy and sell, means that having the chip in a more convenient place (the hand) is not that far away. It makes sense. There are also many practical benefits to a cashless, microchipped society, less fraud, robberies, to name a couple.

People have different theories about WHAT the mark could be, some of them move valid than others, but what I have found is they usually always overlook the very thing we know for certain about the mark, and that is that NO ONE will be able to BUY or SELL without it.

Whatever it will be, it is coming, and we will be here for it. The time is coming when you won't be able to keep your job, your lands, your possessions, even your relationships. Pretty much everyone is going to take the Mark, this means it's likely your family will too. Do you have a faith in God that means you will love Jesus more than them? Do you have a faith in God that means you will forsake everything you own in order to be his disciple? While people continue to set aside money for their kids college fund, take out mortgages and increase their material possessions and plan for their pension, we move silently towards that day when everyone on the planet will have to decide God...or...Money and ALL that it comes with it.

And that is when we come back to Jesus. In Matthew 6:24 he said ''No man can serve two masters, for either he will love one and hate the other, or he will hold to one and despise the other, you cannot serve God and mammon'' So we have a choice daily, who are we going to serve. We show which we love and serve by which we give our TIME to. The Mark of the Beast represents the line in the sand, or should we say concrete, where man once and for all has to delcare their faith, be it in God or money. But that choice is not just in some years ahead, it is a choice we all must face daily. People may think ''How would I survive without my job?'', it's a reasonable question, and one they will have to face when the mark comes, but Jesus already has the answer for us, ''Therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life, for the life is more than meat, and the body more than clothes, look at the birds they toil not, sow or reap, yet God feeds them, or look at the flowers, they spin not, yet God clothes them, how much more better are you than them?...so do not doubt, or ye of little faith, it is your father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom, only seek first the Kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you''.

If we believe that God is going to ressurect us and give us eternal life, we really need to believe that he can feed and clothe us without us having to prostitute our lives for money. That is the faith it will take the reject the mark, but that is that faith that Christ is looking for TODAY.

I would be keen to hear people's thoughts about how we can prepare for the Mark, especially how the lessons we learn from it relate to what Jesus taught. After all the Revelation is 'The Revelation of Jesus Christ'.

WOW, BEAUTIFUL!

This is exactly how I feel IRT to coming M/O/B.

I wanted to add something about the microchip's advantages in a cashless society. Drugs. Drugs. Drugs. Tax evasion. Money laundering. POLITICAL LOBBYING! All stopped in a day. The playing field will seem leveled.

However, we who refuse this mark will not be able to school our children, so we will be outlaws, childabusers even because we will be forced to "deprive" our children of dental check ups, heath exams, and quality housing.

Jesus tells us we will be led into the wilderness when this time comes. There He has prepared a place for us. There we will find the hidden manna and be fed for a time, times, and a half time.

I tell my brothers and sisters this.

Jesus DID not build the ark for Noah, NO. He instead grew up the locust trees and the papyrus reed, and forged the iron with which it was constructed. A flood is coming, and the Lord has made the wilderness ready for us. Are we ready for it?


Praise and exalt Him above all forever!

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

I'm post trib......and think the greatest danger facing the church is the false doctrine that Jesus Christ comes before the antichrist.......this is a new teaching and after more time has past this false doctrine will be a universal teaching as it is being taught in most seminaries today. Most if not all TV evangelist are preaching this errant doctrine and when most Christians who don't even read their bibles are faced with this charismatic antichrist who can call fire down from heaven by his word, they will be lining up in droves to have him take them to heaven

However bad pretrib is, it is the generic use of the word christ which I feel is most dangerous.

Jesus is OUR Christ, the ONE, the ONLY.
We abide in Him, but He is ONE.

It is the gnostic, new age, christ conscious, spirit over flesh nonsense with which the a/c will deceive the fencesitters with. We must always remind our brothers and sisters, that He is Lord OVER ALL, and has NO equal among us.

 

[Deliverance4U]

I do a good amount of research into the evil in high places that threatens us all (knowing your enemy makes them easier to spot). From the research I have done, I feel that the pre-trib doctrine was put in place to "soften" Christians purposely. Satan wants you to think your going to be swept away from all the danger because he WANTS you to be unprepared, weak, and not ready for battle! We are to be soldiers of Yahweh and fight! Part of being a christian is fighting evil, allot of Christians I have met forget this. Make no mistake, demons are real, and they influence things such as false doctrine. This false doctrine was introduced by a prophetess of the Catholic Apostolic Church in the 1800's. It is designed to make you believe you have nothing to worry when the tribulation comes. Yes, Jesus (Yahweh-saves) is coming to end all evil and take us to be with him forever, but we WILL be (and have been for years) here when they try to force one government, money, and religion on us (as Yahweh predicts in revelations, the end times). In my humble opinion, Pre-Trib doctrine is a cop out. Put on the armor of God and do not be afraid of ANY evil!

Ephesians 6:10-18
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, ...

 

[ciel_perdu]

Hi AHS,

I totally agree with you regards to the other advantages that the microchip in a cashless society. On the whole (if it wasn't for it being from the devil, about mankinds dependence on money and not God etc) it's an amazing concept that will really change the world in many ways, and what adds to it's deception, is that it will appear to help in many 'good' ways, i.e. those you have mentioned.

The points you make with regards to family, and being seen as child abusers etc is valid too. Those who reject the mark will be outlaws, societies outcasts. It is important though for those who are married with children, to at least PREPARE for the possiblity that your wife and kids will not want to make the sacrifices that one would have to make to reject the mark. Thus, really bringing alive those teachings of Jesus where he says, ''Anyone who does not love me more than wife, children, brothers, sisters etc, is not worthy of me'', and, ''Anyone who does not hate wife, children, brothers, sisters etc, for me and for the gospel, is not worthy of me''. It is at least something for us all to pray about, because it will be these kinds of challenges and tests that we will all face as we get closer and closer to the mark. Where is our loyalty? Is it with Christ, or is it with reputation, family, possessions, our lives?

It's good to see you know your stuff about being cared for in the wilderness for three and half years. I don't know where the wilderness is, or how God will look after us at that time, but I think in order to prepare for it we need to heed Jesus' call to live by faith in God and not Money, learning to listen to, and follow God withsoever he goes, like the birds of the air.

Indeed you are right in saying a ''flood is coming''. You ask are we prepared, and rightly so. Jesus said,

''Anyone who hears these words of mine and obeys them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock, the storm came and the floods beat against it, but it did not fall for it was founded on a rock''. And we all know what happened to the foolish man when the storm and the flood came!

Let's all get serious about obeying Jesus.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Hi AHS,

I totally agree with you regards to the other advantages that the microchip in a cashless society. On the whole (if it wasn't for it being from the devil, about mankinds dependence on money and not God etc) it's an amazing concept that will really change the world in many ways, and what adds to it's deception, is that it will appear to help in many 'good' ways, i.e. those you have mentioned.

The points you make with regards to family, and being seen as child abusers etc is valid too. Those who reject the mark will be outlaws, societies outcasts. It is important though for those who are married with children, to at least PREPARE for the possiblity that your wife and kids will not want to make the sacrifices that one would have to make to reject the mark. Thus, really bringing alive those teachings of Jesus where he says, ''Anyone who does not love me more than wife, children, brothers, sisters etc, is not worthy of me'', and, ''Anyone who does not hate wife, children, brothers, sisters etc, for me and for the gospel, is not worthy of me''. It is at least something for us all to pray about, because it will be these kinds of challenges and tests that we will all face as we get closer and closer to the mark. Where is our loyalty? Is it with Christ, or is it with reputation, family, possessions, our lives?

It's good to see you know your stuff about being cared for in the wilderness for three and half years. I don't know where the wilderness is, or how God will look after us at that time, but I think in order to prepare for it we need to heed Jesus' call to live by faith in God and not Money, learning to listen to, and follow God withsoever he goes, like the birds of the air.

Indeed you are right in saying a ''flood is coming''. You ask are we prepared, and rightly so. Jesus said,

''Anyone who hears these words of mine and obeys them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock, the storm came and the floods beat against it, but it did not fall for it was founded on a rock''. And we all know what happened to the foolish man when the storm and the flood came!

Let's all get serious about obeying Jesus.

Again beautiful post brother.......

Truly scary, the thought of a man or woman losing their spouse to the temptation of the beast. This is why we must try to understand as many scenarios for the tribulation as possible, and TALK with our loved ones about what it is we MUST do.

Most Christians, sadly, do our weekly hour or two, then a Sunday lunch with maybe a little talk about the sermon or the Sunday School lesson, then we are back to our regular lives.

Rarely it seems our "family" is talking about our Beloved and His charge for us. I suppose that is so many are given over to the strong delusion.