Hi, "Squint". I agree. Do you agree that there is no such thing as "unrighteously-saved"?
Don't know what that catch phrase may mean to you.
I do know without doubt that
ALL OF ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED, even
(past tense) EMEMIES of the GOSPEL from Romans 11:26... who have obviously perished in the flesh by now...
Please read 1Jn3:5-10. Clearly, he who PRACTICES sin not only does not know God, but is stated as "of the devil". What is your opinion of this passage?
That statement in particular is from 1 John 3:9 which implicates the DEVIL in ALL SINS...I do not believe that mankind can be both God's offspring as Paul taught in Acts 17:23-29 and devils as that would reflect on our Father.
I also know that ALL OF ISRAEL were taught to be God's children in Deut. 14:1 and Psalm 82:6 and of course not all of them were believers,
NOR could they be because God place a spirit of stupor upon them to blind and deafen them...again...Romans 11.
There are then some that are meant to see in this present life but that does not preclude God from saving them ALL, as Paul taught that "mystery" in Romans 11.
Please re-read Romans6, 7, and 8; you're missing the "big picture". In ch6, he states that "we cannot dwell in sin;
Don't see
that particular statement in Romans 6 Ben...We cannot say we "have no sin" as a present tense condition and be "in Truth." 1 John 1:8 Paul also had sin indwelling his flesh that he termed NO LONGER I twice in Romans 7...and Paul taught that "whenever" he desired to do good that EVIL was present with him. This does not make Paul the same as the sin that obviously still indwelt his flesh NOR does that make Paul "EVIL."
we are EITHER slaves to sin (and dead to Christ), OR dead to sin and slaves to righteousness and God. Plainly stated is "present yourselves as alive to Christ Jesus".
We are advised not to yield to sin...meaning that it is still their to yield to, particularly if EVIL is present with us whenever we desire to do good.
In ch7, Paul speaks of the WAR between the "new born-again spiritual nature", and the "old dead-but-not-GONE nature". He cries in despair, "Who will SAVE me from this war in my members?!?!"
Again and obviously Paul still had an opponent in his flesh...the sin indwelling his flesh that was NO LONGER I and the EVIL PRESENT with him. I don't recall us being promised sinless flesh in the scriptures. Sin is both an active tense "indwelling" in the flesh and an interior (via thought) action and an exterior (via works) action which same is of the devil.
Chapter 8 is the solution to the problem. He speaks of "walking in the flesh --- if we DO, we must die"; and he speaks of "walking in the Spirit --- by the Spirit putting to death the deeds of the flesh --- that we LIVE."
Death was a daily reckoning for Paul because of what was "with" him in his flesh. Paul admitted that in his flesh he still served the law of sin...which he also elaborated upon in regards to it's working by the Law empowering...and Paul could not avoid that IF he followed the law via his flesh or fleshly ritual(s.)
So --- we live in war, no LONGER.
Don't see that either Ben.
Ephesians 6:12
For
we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
2 Corinthians 10:4-5
(For the weapons of
our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and
bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.
These workings do not stop. The Word is Living and Active in these regards in our behalf.
For Christ did what the flesh was too weak TO do. Rom8 is very clear...
He who dies unbelieving and unrepentant, dies in his sin; and will never enter the gates of Heaven.
I'm not denying that there is eternal punishment Ben. But we may very well differ on "who" is going to suffer that fate. In the light of the facts that Paul was "not alone" in his own flesh...having EVIL PRESENT, carrying a special messenger of Satan with him, having indwelling sin that was NO LONGER I, it is perfectly legitimate to see THE CAUSE of those things IN PAUL that were NOT Paul as the ones who would be suffering that fate, the DEVIL AND HIS MESSENGERS.
Jesus clearly showed that THESE ENTITIES were IN MANKIND and Jesus also spoke to THEM in MANKIND on nearly every page of the Gospels. So in the light of THOSE FACTS it is somewhat disingenuous to neglect a RENDERING of those parties IN our understandings in these matters, and not just jump on the backs of the SLAVES OF SIN, seeing as how the condition of being A SLAVE does without doubt DICTATE that there is also a MASTER OF SLAVES of sin.
I'm sorry, while alive we dwell in repentance and forgiveness.
Obviously then you acknowledge the battle. If you never had sin transpire in flesh or mind you'd have no need to repent or be forgiven for yielding.
We have an advocate with The Father. The Devil and his messengers do NOT.
He who dies WITHOUT repentance, dies without forgiveness --- in this life and in the next.
Sorry Ben. I don't believe that God's Love HALTS at the point of death.
Anyone who dies is RELEASED FROM SIN. (Romans 6:7) And of course Romans 11:26 does teach that past tense enemies of the Gospel as it pertains to Israel shall be saved because they are LOVED for the "fathers" sake, not because of what they did or didn't do. They were enemies, but they ARE loved by God anyway and He thusly SAVES them.
There is no "post-mortem-salvation". Heb9:27 says "it is appointed once for a man to die, and after this comes judgment"
There are many forms of judgment Ben. Judgment as it pertains to mankind is that ALL would honor The Son.
John 5:
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23
That all men should honour the Son
And who does NOT honour The Son? The devil and his messengers IN mankind who RESIST GOD. We are simply not alone in flesh or mind Ben. It's easy to just blame mankind...but the facts of these matters fully implicate the devil and his messengers IN mankind...ALL DAMNATION JUDGMENT can and does abide on those resistors IN mankind beyond any doubt.
--- and Rom2:6-8 says our judgment is EITHER to immortality, OR to wrath and indignation.
Were mankind the ONLY parties in this matter I'd have to agree, but Jesus clearly showed otherwise.
Satan spoke through Peter. Satan entered Judas. An entire LEGION occupied the body of a single man of the Gadarenes. Jesus NEVER CAME to condemn the captives, but to DIVIDE AND FREE THEM Ben.
If your theological presentations are void of the most obvious, how can they be RIGHT?
I could give dozens of scriptures that EXONERATE mankind... you should know them without the numbers:
-If any man hear my words and believe NOT, I judge him Not
-I judge NO MAN
-The Father judges NO MAN
etc etc...
The "all", is a "generality"; and does not deny "each individual, if he/she believes".
There is a cause of unbelief Ben. That cause is the "god of this world" who blinds their minds, lest the light should shine upon
THEM...(the cause of blindness)
Wherever The Word is sown SATAN comes to steal same from the heart.
It's not like this does NOT transpire IN believers either Ben. We are told to RESIST the devil. That means the DEVIL is upon us as well. It's not a resistance that we "see" with our eyes. It's the DEVIL who steals from the hearts.
In 1Jn4, "Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world." Please read Lk10:17-19; we have authority over all evil entities.
I don't think I need to beat the point to death...Paul taught that in the SAME LUMP there is BOTH a vessel of honor and a vessel of dishonor and wrath. When we look at Paul's disclosures unto HIMSELF in Romans 7, the extension is very logical to chapter 9, and into chapter 11 as well when we see the "spirit of stupor" which was PUT UPON Israel. That is what was NOT Israel. The children of the flesh...the CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL.
Just think about this for a moment Ben. IF Jesus addressed children of the devil in the Pharisees...He was, YES, speaking to THEM in the Pharisees just as He said.
...but don't forget verse 20, it's the KEY. There is no rejoicing that evil is subject to u s --- it's no big deal. The important thing is that our names are written in Heaven.
He was not speaking to anyone but Simon-Peter. By calling Peter, "satan", He was making a point at the consequence if Peter could succeed at saving Jesus.
I have no reason to believe that Peter was Satan Ben. All of Israel are God's children and to make them SATAN is brings a huge problem then to GOD having children of the devil as HIS children. No Ben...THEY are SEPARATE ENTITIES from mankind and they are found IN mankind beyond any reasonable doubt.
Those who cannot look to those parties in their positions are only doing so because of THEIR influences in blinding us to the OBVIOUS...but of course to take this "personally" is an offence to most. Nobody wants THAT MUCH Truth...
There is no "great war between Good and evil, between God and the devil, between "yin" and "yang"; it's "God --- almighty omnipotent omniscient omnipresent perfect and perfect-love creator-of-the-Universe", and the devil is just a fallen angel. He's wiley, and has some smarts; but he's no big deal, with Him in us.
I don't think so either Ben... but I certainly cannot deny THEIR workings here on earth NOR do I have to blame my fellow man for THEIR workings with their slaves...God does win this battle for ALL MEN even if they go blind to their graves.
...besides, how smart could satan BE, to "throw away Heaven"???
Satan was not EVER presented in scripture as EVER being "holy." Being perfect in "all his ways" only makes him a PERFECT DEVIL. Jesus said he was a liar, and a murderer FROM THE BEGINNING. John 8:44
God placed a spirit of stupor on Israel so they COULDN'T CHOSE. That "working" was very effective.
So it's NOT like their "minds" were not TAMPERED with. God can also INTERPOSE into the minds of mankind. There is no thought of ours that He does not KNOW and YES, God does tamper also with the wills of men...
In the light of these two OTHER workings IN mankind, I can say without any doubt that men's will's ARE tampered and tamperable...and NOT just of them. We don't gain our reward by "making good decisions."
Each should be understood, place and application.
Do you agree that 'we cannot WALK (abide) in sin"?
Careful --- you are right, "saving-faith" is a WORK". Further, it's GOD'S work.
Every person serves God in this present life. The vessel of dishonor and wrath was RAISED IN PHARAOH that God would show His Superior Power OVER them. In that way PHARAOH served God too...by carrying that vessel to JUDGMENT...and we all carry these things IN US to our respective crosses, whether we "realize it" or NOT. It's just a fact for all men. Each man bears "his own burdens" before the Lord, and YES the words and deeds of the vessels of dishonor and wrath are judged, as are the good words and deeds. This transpires in ALL men.
Mankind cannot dwell in sin; passages like 1Cor6:9-11, Gal5:19-21, Eph5:5-6, and especially 1Jn3:5-10 are very clear...
None of those citings say that we have no sin Ben, or that we don't dwell in it.
Here again was Paul's reality. If this was his reality, then it is ours also:
Romans 7:17
Now then
it is no more I that do it,
but sin that dwelleth in me.
Romans 7:20
Now if I do that I would not,
it is no more Ithat do it, but
sin that dwelleth in me.
WE are not IT. IT dwells in our flesh. WE are not OF THE FLESH. We are OF THE SPIRIT.
IF we as "believers" SEPARATE ourselves from this working...we DO then have OUR freedom even in the MIDST of their IMPOSITIONS.
Those things IN US don't HAVE God's LOVE. Mankind DOES. And we would probably stop crawling all over each other in FALSE JUDGEMENTS and look to our real, but thankfully TEMPORARY enemies who WILL have their DAY OF WRATH if we only PERCEIVED them via WORD's Disclosures. His Word is LIGHT upon THEM. That's the ONLY way we know.
enjoy!
squint
