Poll - Once Saved Always Saved

[Ben johnson]

I pray brother that you will quit disagreeing with God's Word...and trying to dispute it with your outrageous opinions, and the attempts of using scripture to refute scripture, and that your judgment of others will cease.

You have yet to establish that my position, conflicts Scripture. To the contrary, every point I've posted, I've backed up --- citing verse after verse after verse.

I know without a doubt that I will spend eternity with God in heaven, whether I die this instant, tomorrow, next week, next year, whenever.

As long as you have that assurance in your heart, then the odds are that you will.

Yet --- look at what Paul said; he had similar assurance, but phrased it with a DUAL responsibility. God guards what we entrust, and we guard what God entrusts (2Tim1:12-14). Paul also flat stated that "he himself could become disqualified from salvation" (1Cor9:25-27), and using the same word ("adokimos") told US to examine ourselves to see if Christ is in us, lest WE be adokimos-disqualifed (2Cor13:5).

Those who doubt God, more than likely do not know God. John 3:16 says it all. Go ahead dispute His Word again...you do not have to answer to me, but to HIM!

Which verses have I been disputing? What about the verses I've been quoting?
[quoteI am blessed with 4 personalities! God the father, Christ Jesus the son, and the Holy Spirit, and God said "I will never leave nor forsake you, and my own.

It is so sad that so many do not know this peace, and mock the Almighty![/quote]"JawsMetroid" is not as diplomatic as I am; yet, his point is well taken --- you haven't exactly been answering the verses we've been posting.

I would be very interested in your understanding of Rom2:
"Do you take lightly the riches of His patience and kindness and forebearance? Do you not know that the kindness of God leads to REPENTANCE? But by your stubborn unrepentant heart you are storing up WRATH for yourself on the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; when God will render to each man according to his deeds. To those who by doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation."

Several points are made here:
1. God's kindness is MEANT to lead us to repentance.
2. ...but stubborn unrepentance makes God MAD.

Why would God get mad, if HE decrees who will repent, and who will not?

3. Those who SEEK immortality and His righteousness, receive it.
4. Those who CHOOSE selfish ambition (sin), receive God's wrath (Hell).

Why would God run a "final Judgment", judging mankind for what HE HIMSELF decreed?

Judgment is for men's choices; we choose to believe and follow Jesus, or not...

 

[forgivenWretch]

I have no doubt that believers fall back as complete captives while in this present life. Just having to deal with all the confusions that are presented in "christianity" would be enough to send most running rightfully out the door... Christianity is the desire to be like God, why would anyone in their right mind wish to run out the door!?!

That is no cause to thrust your fellow (former) believers in the back...by condemning them to hell, particularly since there are NO EXAMPLES in scripture of that happening to ANY believer, so squint that...and see if you can find ANY SUCH PRESENTATION...There simply is NO SUCH THING... Only one self chooses weather they are condemned to Hell...that is solely the individuals choice. One only has them self to blame.

No soldier in war shoots his wounded commrades...

We are never told to condemn captives of sin, nor did Jesus.

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour

No one is condemning you. The only thing happening here is your blaming God and others for something that has happened in your life. God is not to blame, for what the world and man has caused!

Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. You are absolutely correct...God loves you and so do I.

 

[Rick Otto]

I have no doubt that believers fall back as complete captives while in this present life. Just having to deal with all the confusions that are presented in "christianity" would be enough to send most running rightfully out the door...

That is no cause to thrust your fellow (former) believers in the back...by condemning them to hell, particularly since there are NO EXAMPLES in scripture of that happening to ANY believer, so squint that...and see if you can find ANY SUCH PRESENTATION...There simply is NO SUCH THING...

No soldier in war shoots his wounded commrades...

We are never told to condemn captives of sin, nor did Jesus.

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour

That's what I did; run out churchianity's door with my reason intact.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

heb 10:17 and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not count sin.

You have yet to establish that my position, conflicts Scripture. To the contrary, every point I've posted, I've backed up --- citing verse after verse after verse.
As long as you have that assurance in your heart, then the odds are that you will.

Yet --- look at what Paul said; he had similar assurance, but phrased it with a DUAL responsibility. God guards what we entrust, and we guard what God entrusts (2Tim1:12-14). Paul also flat stated that "he himself could become disqualified from salvation" (1Cor9:25-27), and using the same word ("adokimos") told US to examine ourselves to see if Christ is in us, lest WE be adokimos-disqualifed (2Cor13:5).
Which verses have I been disputing? What about the verses I've been quoting?
[quoteI am blessed with 4 personalities! God the father, Christ Jesus the son, and the Holy Spirit, and God said "I will never leave nor forsake you, and my own.

It is so sad that so many do not know this peace, and mock the Almighty! "JawsMetroid" is not as diplomatic as I am; yet, his point is well taken --- you haven't exactly been answering the verses we've been posting.

I would be very interested in your understanding of Rom2:
"Do you take lightly the riches of His patience and kindness and forebearance? Do you not know that the kindness of God leads to REPENTANCE? But by your stubborn unrepentant heart you are storing up WRATH for yourself on the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; when God will render to each man according to his deeds. To those who by doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation."

Several points are made here:
1. God's kindness is MEANT to lead us to repentance.
2. ...but stubborn unrepentance makes God MAD.

Why would God get mad, if HE decrees who will repent, and who will not?

3. Those who SEEK immortality and His righteousness, receive it.

john 15:5, mk 10:26-27, mt 19:24-26

4. Those who CHOOSE selfish ambition (sin), receive God's wrath (Hell).

Why would God run a "final Judgment", judging mankind for what HE HIMSELF decreed?

Judgment is for men's choices; we choose to believe and follow Jesus, or not...

not dealing with Key parts of are hope....

 

[beloved57]

Folk posting always about love work no evil to thy neighbor but neglect to say anything about loving the lord thy God with all thy heart mind and strenghth, and love work no evil to God...

man centeredness is not of God..

 

[squint]

No one is condemning you. The only thing happening here is your blaming God

Uh, when did I "blame God?"

God In Christ is GREAT ENOUGH to swallow EVERY SIN and ALL OF IT'S WORKS and STILL be Absolutely PERFECT.

God Is also Great Enough to have CREATED EVIL and to USE IT exactly as He Purposes.

and others for something that has happened in your life.

I blame NONE of mankind. We are to speak EVIL of NO MAN...(Titus 3:2) and we are to call NO MAN common or unclean. (Acts 10:17)

God in Christ does NOT COUNT sins against mankind. (2 Cor. 5:19) So why are YOU?

God is not to blame, for what the world and man has caused!

Sure. He had NOTHING to do with the WORLD(s) He created? lol

He just gave it a spin and said HERE'S YER CHANCE?

I don't believe salvation is A CHANCE as in GAMBLING.

Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. You are absolutely correct...God loves you and so do I.

Perhaps then we are on the same page? Is God going to FRY ALIVE FOREVER my fellow believers, even if they FALL into captivity in this present life? I think NOT!

enjoy!

squint

 

[squint]

Folk posting always about love work no evil to thy neighbor but neglect to say anything about loving the lord thy God with all thy heart mind and strenghth, and love work no evil to God...

man centeredness is not of God..

Believers who condemn their fellow believers because "they" love God are sorely deceived.

 

[squint]

That's what I did; run out churchianity's door with my reason intact.

Yeah, we go "there" expecting to find GOD'S LOVE in His people, and instead we find the EXACT OPPOSITE...sectarianism, confusions, and the condemnation of our fellow man and each other.

Funny how that worketh...

 

[Rick Otto]

Squint...
you're down with the canons of Dordt, right?

 

[squint]

Squint...
you're down with the canons of Dordt, right?

Excerpt:

"all men have sinned in Adam, lie under the curse, and are deserving of eternal death"

You should know me well enough by now to answer that one.

 

[Rick Otto]

Squint!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Otto
Squint...
you're down with the canons of Dordt, right?

Excerpt:

"all men have sinned in Adam, lie under the curse, and are deserving of eternal death"

You should know me well enough by now to answer that one.

how 'bout if by "men", it is talking about dust?

 

[forgivenWretch]

God in Christ does NOT COUNT sins against mankind. (2 Cor. 5:19) So why are YOU?

Why do you assume I do?

forgivenWretch...God is not to blame, for what the world and man has caused!

Sure. He had NOTHING to do with the WORLD(s) He created? lol

You are blaming Him right here.

He just gave it a spin and said HERE'S YER CHANCE?

and here

I don't believe salvation is A CHANCE as in GAMBLING.

You are quite right it is not a chance...it is a choice!

Perhaps then we are on the same page? Is God going to FRY ALIVE FOREVER my fellow believers, even if they FALL into captivity in this present life? I think NOT!

Anyone can believe and most do, but simple belief in God, will not get one to heaven. If a person has truly accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior, they will be in heaven with God, but if they simply say they believe and do not accept His offer of salvation, then yes unfortunately they will burn in the pits of Hell.

Once again I say God loves you and so do I. It is your choice to believe it or not.

 

[forgivenWretch]

Yeah, we go "there" expecting to find GOD'S LOVE in His people, and instead we find the EXACT OPPOSITE...sectarianism, confusions, and the condemnation of our fellow man and each other.

Funny how that worketh...

If we search for the truth, we will find the truth....but if we search for anything else that is exactly what we will find.

 

[CShephard53]

As it is so eloquently put in Pirates 3... "I have no sympathy for any of you [insult removed] and no more patience to pretend otherwise. Gentlemen, I wash my hand of this weirdness." [steps off boat]

 

[forgivenWretch]

That is your choice. So sad! Quite evident you only issue lies with God. Peace to you my brother. and again you are loved, weather you CHOOSE it or not.

 

[squint]

That is your choice. So sad! Quite evident you only issue lies with God. Peace to you my brother. and again you are loved, weather you CHOOSE it or not.

I find NO COMMANDS in scripture to NOT love my saved or unsaved neighbors AS MYSELF...Love is from God, and not a working of mankind's CHOICEs.

1 John 4:
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Romans 2:
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

 

[Miracle Storm]

Keep this thread on the topic.

The topic is not about the members.
If you choose to address members in a negative way it will most likely lead to a violation.
If you would like to stay out of trouble and for this thread to stay open Play nice.
Use the brain God gave you, think before you post and how your words will affect others.

K..thankies.

.

 

[forgivenWretch]

When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their eternal security. Jude 24 declares, "To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy." God's power is able to keep the believer from falling. It is up to Him, not us, to present us before His glorious presence. Our eternal security is a result of God keeping us, not us maintaining our own salvation.

The Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand" (John 10:28-29b). Both Jesus and the Father have us firmly grasped in their hand. Who could possibly separate us from the grip of both the Father and the Son?

Ephesians 4:30 tells us that believers are "sealed for the day of redemption." If believers did not have eternal security, the sealing could not truly be unto the day of redemption, but only to the day of sinning, apostasy, or disbelief. John 3:15-16 tells us that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If a person were to be promised eternal life, but then have it taken away, it was never "eternal" to begin with. If eternal security is not true, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error

The most powerful argument for eternal security is Romans 8:38-39, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Our eternal security is based on God's love for those whom He has redeemed. Our eternal security is purchased by Christ, promised by the Father, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
http://www.gotquestions.org/eternal-security.html




http://www.tesney.net/eternal_salvation.htm
I believe that once a person exercises saving faith in Jesus Christ, he or she is forever in the family of God.

* God never ‘kicks anyone out’ or no one ‘backslides’ out of his forever family.

Many scriptures support this view:

1 Corinthians 12:13 we are told that at the moment of salvation the Holy Spirit places us in the body of Christ.

*Once we’re infused in the body of Christ, we are never eliminated from the body.

Ephesians 1:13 & Ephesians 4:30 indicate that the moment of believing in Jesus Christ for salvation, we are permanently “sealed” by the Holy Spirit.
* At this point we are God’s never-ending property.
* That ‘seal’ guarantees that we will make it to heaven.

John 10:28-30 Jesus promises to keep it secure (despite anything that might happen) once we’ve trusted in Jesus Christ. Nothing can take us from his hands.

God’s plans cannot be thwarted (Isa 14:24 KJV) "The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:"

Romans 8:29-39 portrays an unbroken chain that spans from the predestination of believers to their glorification in heaven.

Hebrews 12:7-11 tells us that a believer is secure in his salvation … but this doesn’t mean that we are free to sin. If the Christian sins, and remains in that sin, scripture says that God will discipline him or her just as a father disciplines his children.

 

[Ben johnson]

heb 10:17 and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Hi, "A_Brother". The context of the verse you cite, includes verse 26 --- which plainly says if we continue sinning willfully, Jesus' sacrifice no longer covers us, but we sit in expectation of Hell.

romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not count sin.

"Count", here, is "reckoned" --- in verse 10ff he says HOW it was "reckoned" --- by faith. True faith walks not in darkness, but in Jesus-the-Light. 1Jn1:7-8

john 15:5, mk 10:26-27, mt 19:24-26

"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing." Jn15:5

The next verse is significant --- he says that anyone who does NOT abide in Him, is cut off and cast into the fire.

"With men it is not possible, but with God all things are possible." Mk10:26-27. This simply refers to the rich man who was asked to give up all he had; it seemed impossible to do, but Jesus said "it's not."

Matt19:24-26 is parallel to Mk10:26-27. It doesn't help OSAS...

not dealing with Key parts of our hope....

I've answered the verses you've cited; will you answer the ones I've cited? Specifically --- 1Cor6:9-11, Gal5:19-21, Eph5:5-6, and 1Jn3:5-10 --- how can anyone "abide in sin", but "still be saved"? Each of those passages says "those who DO these things, will not inherit the kingdom of God".

You are a patient man, ABIC; and well tempered. I've always appreciated you. I pray that God will be able to use me or someone else here, to teach you that no one can be enslaved to sin, and also be abiding in Christ.

 

[Ben johnson]

In Case Anyone Forgot


There is not one single example in scripture where a "believer" LOST their salvation unto eternal damnation...

James 5:19-20 is one.
So is 1Tim4:1.
And 1Tim6:10, & 21.
1Tim1:19-20 cites names. Hymenaeus and Alexander.
2Tim2:17-18 names Hymenaeus and Philetus.
Rom14:15 (and 1Cor8:11) speak of "ruining/destroying a brother for whom Christ died".
2Pet1:9 speaks of one who was "formerly purified" (but isn't now).
Heb10:29 speaks of one who was "sancified by Christ's blood" (but now isn't)

I can go on --- but perhaps you'll give me your understanding of these...

I have no doubt that believers fall back as complete captives while in this present life.

What does that mean? "Complete captives", to what? We are slaves; EITHER to sin, OR to Christ --- Rom6 is very clear.
There is no such thing as "backslidden-SAVED"...

Just having to deal with all the confusions that are presented in "christianity" would be enough to send most running rightfully out the door...

It's not confusing; it's simple.

The essence of salvation is John17:3: Jesus: "Father, eternal life is knowing YOU, and the One You sent (Me!)".

That is no cause to thrust your fellow (former) believers in the back...by condemning them to hell, particularly since there are NO EXAMPLES in scripture of that happening to ANY believer, so squint that...and see if you can find ANY SUCH PRESENTATION...There simply is NO SUCH THING...

Found it, quoted it; just above...

No soldier in war shoots his wounded commrades...

There is great wisdom in your words here --- well done.

Someone once said, "Christians are the only soldiers who shoot their own wounded on the battlefield".

May we rush to their aid, bearing BANDAGES and canteens of cool WATER and gently lead them to the infirmary.

We are never told to condemn captives of sin, nor did Jesus.

Indeed --- you are right. Look how Jesus treated the Prostitute. With kindness, love, acceptance, and expectation that she would turn away from her sin.

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour

Exactly that; again, very well said.

Many are they who call themselves "Christian" --- but few who truly fit the mantle.