Poll - Once Saved Always Saved

[forgivenWretch]

As I said...I am saved! And no matter what another thinks, will never change that period... I as well as EVERYONE on this entire forum sin every day, but if one is a true Christian, they are guaranteed their salvation.
This dispute is not with me, it is with God and His Word. By doubting my salvation you most assuredly must doubt your own, as is quite evident in your calling me a mere wretch and nothing more and then saying that He is in me, so have you called God a wretch.

I have offered many verses to which you have tried to refute...FYI...God does not contradict Himself....

I will pray that God will fill your heart with the assurance and the ability to accept that which He promises, and that, the doubt that engulfs you will be trampled.

I have no doubt...God be with you!

 

[CShephard53]

As I said...I am saved! And no matter what another thinks, will never change that period...

It is not what WE think, it's what the Bible SAYS. I find it very hard to believe you missed that.

I as well as EVERYONE on this entire forum sin every day, but if one is a true Christian, they are guaranteed their salvation.

Not if one quits the sanctification process.

This dispute is not with me, it is with God and His Word. By doubting my salvation you most assuredly must doubt your own, as is quite evident in your calling me a mere wretch and nothing more and then saying that He is in me, so have you called God a wretch.

No one has called you a wretch except yourself in your username.

I have offered many verses to which you have tried to refute...FYI...God does not contradict Himself....

No, and God also cannot use present and future tenses for something that is only a past event- so either God is wrong, or salvation is not just a past event. Where are these verses?

I will pray that God will fill your heart with the assurance and the ability to accept that which He promises, and that, the doubt that engulfs you will be trampled.

I have no doubt...God be with you!

I doubt very much that many people can walk the path I have. I doubt that every day. It's not that I don't trust them. It's not that I think they're morons. It's certainly not that I think they are not strong enough. It's that they haven't got the brains, relationship, experiences, or anything else I have had that has put me where I am today. In short, I doubt very much the salvation of those who treat salvation as an event because they are far more likely to use that as an excuse to sin and walk in sin. Perhaps we have not made ourselves clear? Instead of ragging at us for doubting, why not look at the verses we've put forth and what we've said? See if it lines up with the Bible. Put short, if you're going to fault us for doubting, try to look at this from our perspective. You cannot say OSAS without realizing what Scripture teaches on what salvation is.

 

[Ben johnson]

As I said...I am saved! And no matter what another thinks, will never change that period... I as well as EVERYONE on this entire forum sin every day, but if one is a true Christian, they are guaranteed their salvation.

We do sin. God does not want us to sin --- thus, God is resistible. After we sin, we have the same choice --- to repent, or to sin again. It is not the "sin" that condemns us; it is the "again".

This dispute is not with me, it is with God and His Word.

Ahhh --- but "Eternal Security", has been shown to conflict Scripture.

By doubting my salvation...

I think this is addressed to me; please re-read my post --- I did not doubt your salvation, but rather expressed excitement at meeting you in the clouds with Jesus when He returns.

I believe you are saved.

you most assuredly must doubt your own, as is quite evident in your calling me a mere wretch...

Please re-read my post; no one who is "in Christ", is still a "wretch" --- I said, "you are a wretch no MORE; for His righteousness, is now YOURS." Think I quoted 2Cor5:21: "God made Him who knew no sin, to be sin on our behalf, that through Him we may become the righteousness of God."

and nothing more and then saying that He is in me, so have you called God a wretch.

God is righteous.

God is in those who believe and receive Jesus.

Therefore, the saved, are righteous. Not by our own righteousness, which is as filthy rags to Him; but by His righteousness in, and through us.

I have offered many verses to which you have tried to refute...FYI...God does not contradict Himself....

Indeed He doesn't.

There is a time when "OSAS" and "OSNAS", does not matter. If we agree on the FOUNDATION, that is "Christ in us", we dwell not in sin but walk in Him and in His righteousness, then there is sufficient agreement to stand together, looking forward to His coming and to our continued fellowship.

...for I pray that we HAVE good fellowship, NOW. And if I've done anything to wound fellowship with my brothers and sisters here, be they "Calvinist" or "Baptist" or other members of the "OSAS" view, I beg forgiveness and ask to be informed of what I've done, that I may change.

I will pray that God will fill your heart with the assurance and the ability to accept that which He promises, and that, the doubt that engulfs you will be trampled.

A prayer like that, from you, I will accept with deep and sincere grattitude.

I do not doubt; for my view, reflects Paul's:
"I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him; now (you Timothy) guard, by the Holy Spirit who indwells you, the treasure entrusted to you." 2Tim1:14-16

That passage affirms three things:
I know Him, and trust Him
...to guard what I have entrusted.
...and WE guard what HE has entrusted!

I have no doubt...God be with you!

As long as you "have no doubt", and as long as you "abide in Him", my heart is at peace. All I'm after, is to promote spiritual maturity, in Him; that whatever happens, each of us willl stand.

The time is coming soon, when we will have to decide --- will we serve HIM, or will we save our lives? I will NEVER choose life over Him. For I cannot be killed --- after the Tribulation I shall return, with Him; and those who killed me, if they are still on the wrong side when He returns, will be gone.

I grieve for those who do not know Him as I do; there is only one destiny for them. And there too would I go, but for Him. But He is far more than a "ticket out of Hell"; He is love, He is joy, He is life. 1Jn4:16; Jn15:11; 1Jn5:11-13!

 

[forgivenWretch]

[bible]Acts 2[/bible]

Mark 16:16

John 10:28

Acts 16:30,31

 

[Ivy]

The proof is in the Bible! All anyone has to do is ask God and believe in His Word...how more simple could it be?

Here's something "the Bible SAYS" and which I'm sure you have no issue with, the Bible being truth: "Bring forth fruit in keeping with repentance."

And another: "Any branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He cuts off."

I'm saying that over time, if there is no fruit, the profession was probably not genuine, just an emotional moment the person had but that was not sincere. There's a phase for being a baby believer, sure, but if people have gone on for decades with no change towards holiness of life, their profession of faith was insincere. They need to go back again and do it right.

The Son of God did not die a horrible death to help people feel easy about deliberately mucking around in sin for the rest of their lives. He died to bring them into the wonderful & beautiful freedom of a holy life, understanding that that is not an instantaneous process, but a lifelong one.

If they don't want that and don't cooperate with that process, that is the same as saying they don't want salvation--because salvation is deliverance from sin--and God will treat them according to those "don't want" wishes.

 

[forgivenWretch]

Here's a nice simple statement from the Bible: "Bring forth fruit in keeping with repentance."

And another: "Any branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He cuts off."

I'm saying that over time, if there is no fruit, the profession was probably not genuine, just an emotional moment the person had but that was not sincere.

All that is being said is that one sees fit to dispute God's Word...what happened to the context? and a judgment is being made

 

[Ivy]

Yes, it's very possible to misinterpret people in writing on the Internet; if I've done so, I apologize.

 

[Ben johnson]

All that is being said is that one sees fit to dispute God's Word...what happened to the context? and a judgment is being made

There are Calvinists, and there are those who hold Eternal Security (but unlimited atonement); and there are those who hold "Responsible Grace".

Each person from each view, believes he (she?) has the "correct view, and the other views dispute God's word".

This then is the spirit of "theological debate"; that none of us come here thinking "I have arrived, I need only to teach but learn nothing".

The more I study, the stronger the case gets in my understanding of "forfeitable salvation". I cite Scriptures here, inviting others to respond --- have I erred in understanding? Tell me how.

Whether or not we will all come to agreement (and we won't), the deepest desire of my heart is to glorify God, to promote spiritual maturity, and to increase fellowship between believers.

I pray this goal will be successful; and that whatever needs to change in me to promote this, God will lead.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

there are those who hold "Responsible Grace".

Romans 11:6

working grace ... cannot happen they cancell each other out


grace is something we do not deserve

romans 4:5 ungodly people considered righteous! grace

 

[Ben johnson]

Romans 11:6

working grace ... cannot happen they cancell each other out


grace is something we do not deserve

romans 4:5 ungodly people considered righteous! gracep.

And yet --- we read 2Tim1:12-14, "God guards what we entrust, and we guard what He entrusts."

He entrusts eternal life.

 

[forgivenWretch]

http://www.gotquestions.org/once-saved-always-saved.html

Question: "Once saved always saved?"

Answer: Once a person is saved are they always saved? When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their salvation as eternally secure. Numerous passages of Scripture declare this fact. (a) Romans 8:30 declares, "And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified." This verse tells us that from the moment God chooses us, it is as if we are glorified in His presence in heaven. There is nothing that can prevent a believer from one day being glorified because God has already purposed it in heaven. Once a person is justified, his salvation is guaranteed - he is as secure as if he is already glorified in heaven.

(b) Paul asks two crucial questions in Romans 8:33-34 "Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died more than that, who was raised to life - is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us." Who will bring a charge against God's elect? No one will, because Christ is our advocate. Who will condemn us? No one will, because Christ, the One who died for us, is the one who condemns. We have both the advocate and judge as our Savior.

(c) Believers are born again (regenerated) when they believe (John 3:3; Titus 3:5). For a Christian to lose his salvation, he would have to be un-regenerated. The Bible gives no evidence that the new birth can be taken away. (d) The Holy Spirit indwells all believers (John 14:17; Romans 8:9) and baptizes all believers into the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). For a believer to become unsaved, he would have to be "un-indwelt" and detached from the Body of Christ.

(e) John 3:15 states that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If you believe in Christ today and have eternal life, but lose it tomorrow, then it was never "eternal" at all. Hence if you lose your salvation, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error. (f) For the most conclusive argument, I think Scripture says it best itself, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39). Remember the same God who saved you is the same God who will keep you. Once we are saved we are always saved. Our salvation is most definitely eternally secure!


The only ONE and the only Thing that I have to agree with is God and His Word..if anyone else chooses to believe other wise, that is between them and God. And by showing God's Word and not disputing it I glorify Him to the highest.

 

[AndOne]

(e) John 3:15 states that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If you believe in Christ today and have eternal life, but lose it tomorrow, then it was never "eternal" at all. Hence if you lose your salvation, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error. (f) For the most conclusive argument, I think Scripture says it best itself, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39). Remember the same God who saved you is the same God who will keep you. Once we are saved we are always saved. Our salvation is most definitely eternally secure!

Nice post - but point (e) has me a bit confused. Are you saying that people can profess Christ - then fall into gross sin and still be saved?

My response would be that such a person was not truly saved to begin with.

Faith is a funny thing - and though I'm inclined to believe that everyone who professes Christ is a brother or sister - the minute they start cursing Christ or knowingly and willingly committing gross sin I am inclined to say "nah" - they were never saved.

 

[forgivenWretch]

that lies between you and God and no others

 

[AndOne]

that lies between you and God and no others

Well that's true - but I am going to tell such a brother that he might want to check his faith - that the way he is living is not matching up to his Christian testimony. It's part of the whole accountability thing.

 

[forgivenWretch]

Well that's true - but I am going to tell such a brother that he might want to check his faith - that the way he is living is not matching up to his Christian testimony. It's part of the whole accountability thing.

My faith is right where it needs to be, and as for accountability I have already shown to whom I am accountable, and it is not you nor any other human. I answer only to God, and His judgment is the only one that counts.

You do not know me, and your opinions are mere assumptions.

I am saved and will always be saved, and as previously stated, if any one has issue with it....take it to God.

 

[beloved57]

bebe ask

Nice post - but point (e) has me a bit confused. Are you saying that people can profess Christ - then fall into gross sin and still be saved?

Sure, peter did it..

lk 22:

55And when they had kindled a fire in the midst of the hall, and were set down together, Peter sat down among them.

56But a certain maid beheld him as he sat by the fire, and earnestly looked upon him, and said, This man was also with him.
57And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.
58And after a little while another saw him, and said, Thou art also of them. And Peter said, Man, I am not.
59And about the space of one hour after another confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean.
60And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crew.
61And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. 62And Peter went out, and wept bitterly

What peter did was so sinful that Jesus says in another place that those who do this he will also deny them..

matt 10

33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

behe I dont believe you understand salvation. What do you believe about the gospel ?

 

[AndOne]

bebe ask



Sure, peter did it..

lk 22:

55And when they had kindled a fire in the midst of the hall, and were set down together, Peter sat down among them.

56But a certain maid beheld him as he sat by the fire, and earnestly looked upon him, and said, This man was also with him.
57And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.
58And after a little while another saw him, and said, Thou art also of them. And Peter said, Man, I am not.
59And about the space of one hour after another confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean.
60And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crew.
61And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. 62And Peter went out, and wept bitterly

What peter did was so sinful that Jesus says in another place that those who do this he will also deny them..

matt 10

33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

behe I dont believe you understand salvation. What do you believe about the gospel ?

Without getting into the crucifiction and the resurrection, in a nut shell:

I do believe in eternal security - that once you are truly saved you cannot loose your salvation. I believe that one is justified by faith along through grace alone.

Are you telling me that is not the gospel?

 

[AndOne]

My faith is right where it needs to be, and as for accountability I have already shown to whom I am accountable, and it is not you nor any other human. I answer only to God, and His judgment is the only one that counts.

You do not know me, and your opinions are mere assumptions.

I am saved and will always be saved, and as previously stated, if any one has issue with it....take it to God.

I wasn't speaking of you specifically. I believe you when you say you are saved. I don't know you personally so I cannot make any other judgements concerning your walk with God. I pretty much agree with everything you have said - so I'm not sure what your beef is with me.

 

[AndOne]

Let me clarify something for you guys - because I think I can see where there might be some confusion with my posts.

I do not believe that we will stop sinning when we come to Christ. I'm sorry if I have led you to believe that is my stand.

I do believe that as a result of salvation a person's heart will become disposed toward the things of God and will be bent toward's doing the will of God. When failure occurs - that person always counts on Christ's grace.

But I do believe that there are people out there - who call themselves Christians - but aren't for one reason or another. When they ultimately turn away from the faith - it is not because they "fell away." It is because they were not saved to begin with.

In regards to the Peter passage - the fact that he wept bitterly shows that his heart was always disposed to Christ. He was never truly lost - just stumbling.

 

[forgivenWretch]

I do not have a "beef" but it seemed that by quoting what I said and then making points to the contrary is not agreement.

Well that's true - but I am going to tell such a brother that he might want to check his faith - that the way he is living is not matching up to his Christian testimony. It's part of the whole accountability thing.

this was in response to me and appears that you were talking to me. If you weren't then maybe you might have worded it differently.

I have no "beef" with anyone, and anytime, that it comes to the point of my beliefs being questioned then most assuredly I will direct that person to God .

Thank you for your clarification brother.