Poll as a born again Christian do you still sin

[Archivist]

Is it your desire to only go as far as you have seen someone else go....and to expect to make the same mistakes as others state they cant stop making? On the narrow path, you wont be able to see another....you will ostracized and alone......but then you will find that you arent alone......

That doesn't answer the question I asked.

 

[RaymondG]

That doesn't answer the question I asked.

"....the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

We are talking about what God can and will do in those that believe. If we are talking about what man can do....we agree, for man it is impossible.

Talking about personal experiences is pointless unless you plan to limit yourself to my achievements and take on my shortcomings. I wish for you to go as far as you can, regardless of what others say you can and cant do. With God there is no limitation......but you are personally limited on by what you believe.....

 

[Archivist]

"....the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

We are talking about what God can and will do in those that believe. If we are talking about what man can do....we agree, for man it is impossible.

Talking about personal experiences is pointless unless you plan to limit yourself to my achievements and take on my shortcomings. I wish for you to go as far as you can, regardless of what others say you can and cant do. With God there is no limitation......but you are personally limited on by what you believe.....

You still are not answering my question. Try this: the second greatest commandment is that we love our neighbor as ourselves. Did you go to bed hungry last night? You have neighbors who did. Are you loving them as you love yourself if you went to bed full while they are hungry?

 

[Sam81]

There are two categories of sin for one who in Christ, sin unto life, and sin unto death.

The sins unto life are the sins that are revealed to us by the Holy Spirit, deep matters of the heart, and falling short of the standard found only in Christ. But when passed from death until life, must cast off those things which bind him to his former place. John 11:44 The Bible says the Lord loves him who He chastise. Hebrews 12:6. And by the conviction of the Holy Spirit, we conform ourselves to Christ's image. Therefore, a sin unto life are the sins revealed in us in the casting down of the old man and taking up of the new man.

A sin unto death is a sin that can happen only after blatantly breaking one of the Lord's commandments (e.g to backslide). From that point, the person is turned over to Satan, the ultimate chastisement - captivity - for either one of two purposes: to be restored unto Christ or to sin unto death. Pray for this person to be restored always. But if this backslider who at one time received the spirit of the Lord should ever in enter into APOSTASY (i.e ATHEISM, ANOTHER RELIGION, CURSING GOD, SODOMY) they are CONDEMNED FOREVER, having been given completely over. They have not been given over for their own education or eventual edification.

No restoration is ever possible. Do not pray any longer for the backslider who passes from sleep unto death. The Lord's spirit should not always strive with man. There are two ends to the backslider after being "turned over" to receive an "education", pray that this person is restored unto Christ. But should a backslider resist the Holy Spirit to the point of apostasy, that is, the public rejection of Christ and the outward and professed hatred of God and all things of God after being known unto God. Do not pray for such. They are eternally lost - there is no more forgiveness possible. They have done the unpardonable - God will no more forgive them than the angels who likewise sinned in the very presence and knowledge of the most High God.

 

[RaymondG]

You still are not answering my question. Try this: the second greatest commandment is that we love our neighbor as ourselves. Did you go to bed hungry last night? You have neighbors who did. Are you loving them as you love yourself if you went to bed full while they are hungry?

You are too much on the surface....you have to move to the deeper meanings. If i give you food and water, you will be hungry and thirsty again. "But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." "Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?"

" Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water."

Now do you have more important questions you can think of, or are your main concerns still the physical body?

"I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it......"

 

[Archivist]

You are too much on the surface....you have to move to the deeper meanings. If i give you food and water, you will be hungry and thirsty again. "But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." "Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?"

" Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water."

Now do you have more important questions you can think of, or are your main concerns still the physical body?

"I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it......"

Ah yes, convert them but let them starve. That is how you love your neighbor. No sin there.

One of us is not ready for meat, but it isn’t me. Like others, this poor sinner is out of this thread.

 

[RaymondG]

Ah yes, convert them but let them starve. That is how you love your neighbor. No sin there.

One of us is not ready for meat, but it isn’t me. Like others, this poor sinner is out of this thread.

you are correct. And I find nothing wrong with what you believe. Thanks for the conversation.

 

[Thee Librarian]

Something that’s always bothered me is there are a few verses in the Bible that say that a person who is born again will not or cannot sin.

“We know that whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not; but he that was begotten of God keepeth himself, and the evil one toucheth him not.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:18‬ ‭ASV‬‬

“Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭ASV‬‬

These struck me as pretty strong evidence because even looking into the Greek I can’t find anything indicating that this is a mistranslation. Even looking into the definition of the Greek words I can’t find any indication that they can have an alternate meaning. Furthermore when I look into verses that say we all still sin they are worded in a way that could be referring to past sin and possibly not future or present sins. My heart tells me that all Christians will still sin no matter how hard we try not to. I’ve met many many extremely devoted Christians and all of them admit they still sin. I’ve actually never met a Christian in person who claims they don’t still sin. I find it very hard to believe that I’ve never met anyone who is born again. I have really tried very hard to devote my life to Christ. I’m always studying and trying to learn from other Christians who have different perspectives and no matter how hard I try to achieve this goal I fail. Now I don’t steal, lie, cheat, drink alcohol, harm or attack others, etc. Mostly my sins are things like doubt, worry, complaining, frustration, and occasionally pride. Maybe some light boasting in there as well. I believe that everyone will sin even after being born again. I believe there is a difference between being a slave to sin and occasionally stumbling in sin. As Christians we are no longer a slave to sin we are no longer controlled by our sinful nature but we are not perfect and will still stumble from time to time. This is what I believe. So I decided to create this poll to see what percentage of Christians claim they don’t sin and to perhaps see more perspectives on this subject to see if there’s some evidence I’m missing to help me better understand whether I’m just truly not born again or that everyone sins whether they are born again or not. In the event this becomes a debate between those who claim not to sin and those who claim they do sin I will remind everyone please refrain from saying that a person is not a Christian or is not born again as it is against the forum rules.

From God's perspective, once you accept forgiveness you are forgiven permanently.
In that sense, you can't sin.

 

[Der Alte]

I wish I was perfect like some folks in this thread.

 

[RaymondG]

I wish I was perfect like some folks in this thread.

Why would you desire this? Wouldn't it be easier to just click the "no" button and live a normal life like most people?

 

[Alithis]

You seem to be quite adept at slinging false accusations. How high is that horse you are on? Why don't you post the correct quotation from Francis? I don't think I have ever read anything by Francis of Assisi. Perhaps you might consider addressing the topic instead of slinging insults.

Romans 12:6-8
(6) Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
(7) Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
(8) Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
1 Cointhians 12:28-30
(28) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
(29) Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
(30) Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?​

No accusation was made.
..i said "unless" you are preaching the misquote .....
The gospel is never preached by example only
Though example can and does on very rare occasion lead to someone asking how to be saved(and then to the answer must be spojen) to preach tge gospel one must speak it out of ones mouth.
If for 4 decades one has not taught people how to preach the Gospel then its a failure to Equip the body. IF (as so many pastors do) one has insinuated to them only to live it and not speak it ,then one has been opposing the great comission .
No one is saying the one is you. Because the term -"unless" -is opening the "question".
If its not been the case with you personally
Your free to say so .

But this does not take away from to original point i made which is that you used to text in a noncontextual manner .

Here for info is link to 1 article concerning the Francis of Assisi quote vs misquote.

 

[JacksBratt]

From God's perspective, once you accept forgiveness you are forgiven permanently.
In that sense, you can't sin.

I agree.

Some will have issue with this as they believe that this is a license to sin, which it is not. It is a conscious attempt to not sin with the inability to do so. All the while we are forgiven for them.

 

[GodsGrace101]

What we know as discipleship is not even close to what our Lord was talking about and what His disciples understood.

It was a well established institution at the time (by the Rabbis) and has been documented in the Talmuds.

To the Rabbis, it was a select few that did it. But I think Matt 28 puts the onus on the evangelist to do it.

http://heartofgodisrael.org/messianic-messages/discipleship-is-jewish/

Very good article.
Everyone should read it....
Not done yet.

Never ceases to amaze me how much could be written on just one verse.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Rahab was counted as being righteous by lying in order to save the Israelite spies. I believe it is the motive that constitutes sin. Sin is transgression against God. If a person lies for good then it is not transgression against God. Remember we are under the purpose of which the law was intended not necessarily under the letter of the law.

As for being late I really don’t think that is stealing someone’s time. I believe stealing is a conscience decision not a circumstantial situation. Remember sin is about defiance against God. If your on your way to meet someone and you get caught in traffic you didn’t defy God. Now perhaps if you were willfully late. I think a lot depends on the circumstances.

Of course, we'd have to examine each and every sin.
Being late, however, does steal someone's time. If everyone is late to the dr, the dr gets to go home about an hour later than usual which takes time away from his family.

This conversation could get silly but it's important to understand that there are many sins we commit that if asked we'd say we never sinned in that way.

Transgression is a sin against the law,,,which, of course, is against God. Before there was the law, there was no transgression. (the law of Moses).

Where there is no law, there is no transgression.
Romans 4:15

This does not mean that there was no sin before the law,
but only that there was no transgression.

 

[BNR32FAN]

From God's perspective, once you accept forgiveness you are forgiven permanently.
In that sense, you can't sin.

Perhaps but the wording in the verses I quoted is a bit obtuse in regards to this idea.

 

[Alithis]

I think you are making to much of an assumption about "all" baptized believers.
Lots of sincere baptized believers are not taught about the power to not sin available to them and they may even be taught they will go on sinning because they are still in the flesh.
We are taught about forgiveness, repenting, confessing, and what sin is, but not about the Holy Spirit indwelling and what all He can do.

Shall we consider then the liklehood they are not yet baptised in the Holy Spirit.
Because When ypu are you have no need that any Man teaches you
And
He will lead you into all truth.

The test comes when each become aware of the truth then begins to obey the lord Jesus.
And it is impossible to engage in a work of sin while one is engaged in a work of righteousness at the same time.

 

[Alithis]

Peter believed enough to walk on water and received the revelation from God that Jesus was the Son of God then later willfully denied Jesus 3 times. But he repented and Jesus forgave him. I don’t believe Peter ever ceased to be a believer. I believe he was overcome by fear. Many years later Peter died refusing to deny Jesus. His sin taught him a valuable lesson.

Yes
And if you refer back to what was pointed out in johns letters and how they are speaking to children ,young men ,and fathers in faith you see how at tgat time peter was a babe in faith. Later he very much became a father in faith. But furst he had to be born again of the spirit.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Note, I am not affected by these posts.....and "ridiculing" is subjective. I guess Im more saying that I could see how one could deem certain posts in a negative light. I try not to feel anything while reading words. But I'll give a few examples...and note that these posts get many good ratings from those who support the posters:
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So based on this, one who disagrees with the majority, and believe that God can make one live without sin : their integrity should be questioned, they are ridiculous, arrogant, dont understand the bible, feels holier than thou, are decieving themselves, are not listening to the holy spirit, havent read most of the new testament, they are mocked, are liars, should be yelled at and called completely blind, are mocked some more...etc.

But maybe im reading these wrong...I find no fault in any of these comments, I was just pointing out that I could understand if some would.




I cant speak for everyone...so I cannot state what everyone is doing. I was speaking on your general topic. I believe God can make one Sinless yet while they live. Perhaps I deserve the comments posted above because of it.....perhaps not. all subjective.




Maybe you are right, no one is being ridiculed. And I like reasoning together...It just seemed to me that there is an answer that is frowned upon...That we are all supppose to say one thing and if you dont, you are dismissed, and not reasoned with.



I dont believe that anyone has said that we shouldnt strive. No one said that they are sinless either, yet it is being implied..
If I tell you to go get the ball, and that you will never be able to get it....Does this give you the same drive to try as if I say "go get the ball, you have the ability to get it"??

It is all im saying.... impossibility can reduce the drive to try..

Hi Raymond,
You tagged me on the above because I said that we all lie, steal and cheat and then I explained why.

I just want to comment on your last paragraph, which I highlighted in blue.

I agree with your getting the ball analogy and how impossibility can reduce the drive to try.

BUT, what if the getting of the ball and the drive is truly toward something impossible? Can you think of someone who may not be able to get the ball? Unfortunately, I've seen many children that cannot.

And some things ARE impossible. Can I promise a child something I know he will never be able to do?

I believe this works in the opposite sense...If we give hope where there is none and the person strives but never reaches the goal...haven't we taken hope away from them and shown them the impossibility of a task?

If I tell a child to pray because God will answer his prayer and then his prayer is not answered, how will he feel about God?
Maybe disappointment?

The reality of the matter is that we will NEVER stop sinning.
This doesn't mean we should CONTINUE IN SIN. I DO trust that a Christian can and does cut down on sinning to a minimum, but we will not stop sinning till we get to heaven.

John said that to say we don't sin is a sin and means we do not know God.
1 John 1:10
1 John 2:1 John is giving his "little children" instruction on what to do when they DO sin.

 

[Alithis]

Hi Raymond,
You tagged me on the above because I said that we all lie, steal and cheat and then I explained why.

I just want to comment on your last paragraph, which I highlighted in blue.

I agree with your getting the ball analogy and how impossibility can reduce the drive to try.

BUT, what if the getting of the ball and the drive is truly toward something impossible? Can you think of someone who may not be able to get the ball? Unfortunately, I've seen many children that cannot.

And some things ARE impossible. Can I promise a child something I know he will never be able to do?

I believe this works in the opposite sense...If we give hope where there is none and the person strives but never reaches the goal...haven't we taken hope away from them and shown them the impossibility of a task?

If I tell a child to pray because God will answer his prayer and then his prayer is not answered, how will he feel about God?
Maybe disappointment?

The reality of the matter is that we will NEVER stop sinning.
This doesn't mean we should CONTINUE IN SIN. I DO trust that a Christian can and does cut down on sinning to a minimum, but we will not stop sinning till we get to heaven.

John said that to say we don't sin is a sin and means we do not know God.
1 John 1:10
1 John 2:1 John is giving his "little children" instruction on what to do when they DO sin.

Be careful .it does not say if we say we dont sin ..but if we say we have not "sinned "(past tense)
Also it gives instruction on what to do IF the little children (immature in faith) sin.
Not WHEN they sin as if it is acceptable to sin.
John says what he says in a very specific way for very specific reason.

Im not going to jump to conclusion on everything you say but rather seek clarification by asking.
Do you believe Jesus is victorious and is able to take away sin and set us free from the power of sin .?

 

[bling]

Shall we consider then the liklehood they are not yet baptised in the Holy Spirit.
Because When ypu are you have no need that any Man teaches you
And
He will lead you into all truth.

The test comes when each become aware of the truth then begins to obey the lord Jesus.
And it is impossible to engage in a work of sin while one is engaged in a work of righteousness at the same time.

I really like this statement: "...it is impossible to engage in a work of sin while one is engaged in a work of righteousness at the same time..."
Do you see different "portions" of the Spirit being given to people like Christ had one portion, the apostles could lay hands on people and gift them miraculous Spiritual gifts, some had miraculous Spiritual gifts and some had the indwelling Holy Spirit, yet no miraculous gifts at least for a time?