[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] How would you secure the border?

[Red Fox]

I said ILLEGAL immigrants. There is a difference ya know!

Ken

Not in everyone's opinion and not in mine. As I said, I don't consider Mexicans coming from Mexico to be immigrants.

 

[Ken-1122]

Not in everyone's opinion and not in mine. As I said, I don't consider Mexicans coming from Mexico to be immigrants.

According to your opinion? Well according to MY opinion, I may not see anything wrong with stealing if nobody notices! Hey nobody is getting hurt right? Fortunately, your opinion and my opinion don't count because it is against the law

Ken

 

[Avid]

Why does immigration matter this much to some people? Just wondering.

Why is illegal immigration such a problem to some people? I'm not saying it means nothing.

As has been said, it is an illegal invasion. The largest part are people sent by a foreign gov.to colonize parts of our nation. The cost is astronomical. It is amazing that it is considered so small a thing by some people.

The Mexican gov.has sent their worst people here, first, because they do not want them, and second, because they will cause us the most trouble. These people come illegally, or come through an established program, and overstay their visas.

I know a farmer who has trouble with this. He pays a lot of money to bring Mexican farm workers to help, has nice facilities, and pays them decent wages. They work usually till the first payday. They leave without finishing the job, take what they can, have ruined what they leave behind (new beds and sheets are ruined because they sleep in their dirty work clothes, and do not wash them, although laundry equipment is provided.) He is desperate, and it costs all of us when this happens to him. It costs us again when these thieves go to steal and ruin other things.

It is clear there is not much of any accounting for all these people who overstay, then disappear. They have stolen the aid to get here, stolen what they could carry or sell, ruined what they used, left the farmer without help when he needed it, and avail themselves of our public services that are not intended for them. In total, they cost us about $65 Billion per year. To understand what that number means, one million (1,000,000) seconds from now is a little over a week and a half. Sixty-Five Billion (65,000,000,000) seconds from now is over 20,600 years!

This is NOT a matter of not trying to be nice to these people. It is a matter of them trying to make this nation their own, and change our culture to match the failed one they were so desperate to leave!

 

[Red Fox]

According to your opinion? Well according to MY opinion, I may not see anything wrong with stealing if nobody notices! Hey nobody is getting hurt right? Fortunately, your opinion and my opinion don't count because it is against the law

Ken

You are more than entitled to your opinion as I am to mine and there is no reason to be rude about it.

 

[zephyrWiccan]

I don't think an expensive 'wall' as suggested by Trump is the answer. I would rather see a lighted chain link/razor wire fence, manned by security forces all along it's length. Guard dogs would augment the security personnel.

Bright lights would illuminate the southern area at night while the northern area would be dark to any illegals who approach. The open wire would allow complete visibility at all times. Lighting costs would be reduced greatly by the use of pv systems.

The primary cost would be personnel, which would be provided by active duty Armed Services, state National Guard units, law enforcement, and dedicated border guard units. Since these personnel are already being paid there would be little or no cost for their service.

Whole military units could be deployed to remote sectors of the fence and conduct field training exercises in conjunction with fence duty. It would be good training for fighting in the deserts of the middle east.

If remote sectors show little or no illegal activity personnel could be reduced or redeployed to problem areas as needed. Military transport units would also rotate in for training, ensuring the quick mobility of personnel as needed.

This plan would minimize the cost of infrastructure and maximize the effectiveness by allowing more 'boots on the ground'. Thus the 'barrier' to entry would be invested more in personnel than an expensive, easily breached, unguarded wall.

It would be impossible to man such a fence in any meaningful way (or build a wall impervious to any sort of intrusion). Hungary is learning that right this minute, even as they hurry to try to finish the last sections of their razorwire fence - migrants fleeing for safety are going over and under it with no problem.

 

[Red Fox]

As has been said, it is an illegal invasion. The largest part are people sent by a foreign gov.to colonize parts of our nation. The cost is astronomical. It is amazing that it is considered so small a thing by some people.

The Mexican gov.has sent their worst people here, first, because they do not want them, and second, because they will cause us the most trouble. These people come illegally, or come through an established program, and overstay their visas.

I know a farmer who has trouble with this. He pays a lot of money to bring Mexican farm workers to help, has nice facilities, and pays them decent wages. They work usually till the first payday. They leave without finishing the job, take what they can, have ruined what they leave behind (new beds and sheets are ruined because they sleep in their dirty work clothes, and do not wash them, although laundry equipment is provided.) He is desperate, and it costs all of us when this happens to him. It costs us again when these thieves go to steal and ruin other things.

It is clear there is not accounting for all these people who overstay, then disappear. They have stolen the aid to get here, stolen what they could carry or sell, ruined what they used, left the farmer without help when he needed it, and avail themselves with public services that are not intended for them. In total, they cost us about $65 Billion per year. To understand what that number means, one million (1,000,000) seconds from now is a little over a week and a half. Sixty-Five Billion (65,000,000,000) seconds from now is over 20,600 years!

This is NOT a matter of not trying to be nice to these people. It is a matter of them trying to make this nation their own, and change our culture to match the failed one they were so desperate to leave!

So, in other words, a part of history just may repeat itself in this country, only this time, it will be Americans on the blunt end of it all. I guess it could be said that what goes around comes around or even contribute this to bad karma or we could go the Christian route and say that this country is finally going to reap what it has sown.

 

[Ken-1122]

You are more than entitled to your opinion as I am to mine and there is no reason to be rude about it.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I'm just pointing out that we have laws for a reason. Laws haven't always been right, but this one is. If you don't believe me, go to Guatemala, and try sneaking over the border to Mexico and see how receptive the Mexican government is to you doing this.

Ken

 

[Red Fox]

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I'm just pointing out that we have laws for a reason. Laws haven't always been right, but this one is. If you don't believe me, go to Guatemala, and try sneaking over the border to Mexico and see how receptive the Mexican government is to you doing this.

Ken

I understand that there are laws, but nevertheless, I still don't agree with the perception that Mexicans are immigrants to this land.

 

[Ken-1122]

It would be impossible to man such a fence in any meaningful way (or build a wall impervious to any sort of intrusion). Hungary is learning that right this minute, even as they hurry to try to finish the last sections of their razorwire fence - migrants fleeing for safety are going over and under it with no problem.

How do you know putting the US military on the border would not work? Just because Hungary has problems with their border doesn't mean we would.

K

 

[Ken-1122]

I understand that there are laws, but nevertheless, I still don't agree with the perception that Mexicans are immigrants to this land.

Why? The Mexican Government respects our borders, why don't you?

K

 

[Red Fox]

Why?

It's complicated and it may be off topic of the original post and the subject of this thread for me to explain it any further.

 

[Ken-1122]

It's complicated and it may be off topic of the original post and the subject of this thread for me to explain it any further.

Fair enough. But weather you like it, agree with it, or not; when a person goes to another country to take up permenat residence, that person by definition is an immigrant.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/immigrant
When this is done illegally, that person by definition is an illegal immigrant.

Ken

 

[Red Fox]

Fair enough. But weather you like it, agree with it, or not; when a person goes to another country to take up permenat residence, that person by definition is an immigrant.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/immigrant
When this is done illegally, that person by definition is an illegal immigrant.

Ken

I would love to challenge the above explanation and further explain my perspective as a Native American concerning the term immigrant and how I believe Mexicans, by the definition given above of what an immigrant is, do not fit the definition of an immigrant to Turtle Island, but that would be completely off topic of the original post.

 

[Ken-1122]

I would love to challenge the above explanation and further explain my perspective as a Native American concerning the term immigrant and how I believe Mexicans, by the definition given above of what an immigrant is, do not fit the definition of an immigrant to Turtle Island, but that would be completely off topic of the original post.

When you lose a war, you are forced to accept the terms of the victorious.

Ken

 

[OldWiseGuy]

How do you know putting the US military on the border would not work? Just because Hungary has problems with their border doesn't mean we would.

K

Hungary has just put a fence, they haven't stationed security forces yet.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

America is nothing but a global bully, stealing land, invading other countries, destroying other cultures, and trying to manipulate and control international politics and governments. In fact, America itself is a stolen country. Given the history of this nation, it's no surprise to me that there are Americans wanting to annex Mexico.

Human history is the story of military, and political, invasion, conquest, and subjugation. It's still happening all over the place.

 

[JustOneWay]

Human history is the story of military, and political, invasion, conquest, and subjugation. It's still happening all over the place.

So much for American exceptionalism...

We are no different from the rest.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I know libertarians have been big on decriminalization for years -- what I was talking about was the whole program.

As I say, going the whole way would be amazing on many levels. But free clinics would be a good start.

I would go to full legalization, including manufacture and sales of all drugs. The state could go into the business as well and fund the clinics with the revenues.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So much for American exceptionalism...

We are no different from the rest.

Sorry, I should have added revolution , a very powerful force in the history of nations.

 

[JustOneWay]

Sorry, I should have added revolution , a very powerful force in the history of nations.

That is an added twist regarding the American experiment.

American was active in invasion, conquest, subjugation and revolution all at the same time....