[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] How would you secure the border?

[OldWiseGuy]

If someone is addicted to drugs, that's become a medical condition. It's one that we know how to fix, medically. It's one that probably began because of financial problems (often social problems, too, but financial is huge). If somebody started on drugs to put financial problems aside, offering them greater financial problems is disincentive. A free clinic is incentive for people who realize the decision was bad, and want to go back to dealing with the problems that led to it.

If we _really_ want to solve the problem, we'll do what Portugal when they fixed their drug problems. That would be effective, compassionate, and it would sure save us a whole heck of a lot of money down the road! But conservatives will never go for that, so don't worry about it.



But even just the free clinics is enough to put a dent in cartel income.

I'd give that a try. But as I said above drug treatment would be added to the ACA benefits if drug use was decriminalized.

 

[Armoured]

I spoke about home invaders, not business invaders. People have different concerns when it has to do with their home and family vs their business. You are moving the goalpost.

On what basis do you say that that one concern is my only real concern? That is untrue. All of those things I listed are equally my concerns.

It is not I who tipped my hand, but you.

*snort*. Yeah, sometimes trying to reverse someone's claim back on them really isn't appropriate, or doesn't even make sense.

The analogy of a business was to provide a simple basis for a cost benefit analysis. But if you're really that hung up on the idea of it being your home that we talk about, I'll try again.

Lets say you have a problem with a neighbour letting their dog do it's business on your lawn. This "costs" you about 25 minutes a week with a bag and trowel to take care of, and occasionally a trip to the hardware store for some lawn repair seed. Let's say the cost to you is $500 a year. So you call a fencing company. The fencing company can build you an impenetrable dog proof fence for $15000, plus extra for upkeep.

Which makes more sense to you? Wearing the $500 a year, or paying the $15000 plus upkeep upkeep?

 

[Armoured]

I'd give that a try. But as I said above drug treatment would be added to the ACA benefits if drug use was decriminalized.

Look up Portugal sometime.

 

[Armoured]

It really won't be necessary to stick them with the bill.
If we decriminalize drug use Congress will have to add drug treatment to the ACA. Problem solved.

Surprisingly, I more or less agree with that idea.

 

[Willtor]

I'd give that a try. But as I said above drug treatment would be added to the ACA benefits if drug use was decriminalized.

Even better. And, to top it off, it creates jobs for workers at the clinics.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Look up Portugal sometime.

I did. We should try it as well, although I don't think you can compare our drug problem with theirs.

 

[ananda]

*snort*. Yeah, sometimes trying to reverse someone's claim back on them really isn't appropriate, or doesn't even make sense.

The analogy of a business was to provide a simple basis for a cost benefit analysis. But if you're really that hung up on the idea of it being your home that we talk about, I'll try again.

Lets say you have a problem with a neighbour letting their dog do it's business on your lawn. This "costs" you about 25 minutes a week with a bag and trowel to take care of, and occasionally a trip to the hardware store for some lawn repair seed. Let's say the cost to you is $500 a year. So you call a fencing company. The fencing company can build you an impenetrable dog proof fence for $15000, plus extra for upkeep.

Which makes more sense to you? Wearing the $500 a year, or paying the $15000 plus upkeep upkeep?

Surely you are not comparing two completely different things: men and women unlawfully breaking, entering, and squatting in my house and who are legally liable for their own actions vs. a temporarily trespassing dog, who is not legally liable for his own action?

But, to indulge you and your analogy, if such a dog was doing such a thing, I would still evict the temporary trespasser (the dog), hold the trespasser's responsible party (my neighbor) legally liable for his property's actions, pursue damages, and warn him to control his property.

 

[Armoured]

Surely you are not comparing two completely different things: men and women unlawfully breaking, entering, and squatting in my house and who are legally liable for their own actions vs. a temporarily trespassing dog, who is not legally liable for his own action?

But, to indulge you and your analogy, if such a dog was doing such a thing, I would still evict the temporary trespasser (the dog), hold the trespasser's responsible party (my neighbor) legally liable for his property's actions, pursue damages, and warn him to control his property.

Uh-huh. When you want to have a serious conversation, I'm more than happy to take part. Let me know.

 

[JustOneWay]

America is nothing but a global bully, stealing land, invading other countries, destroying other cultures, and trying to manipulate and control international politics and governments. In fact, America itself is a stolen country. Given the history of this nation, it's no surprise to me that there are Americans wanting to annex Mexico.

In my mind I catch a picture -- big black raven in the sky
Looking at the ocean -- sail reflected in black eye --
Sail as white as heroin, white like weathered bones --
Rum and guns and smallpox gonna change the face of home
In this stolen land...

If you're like me you'd like to think we've learned from our mistakes
Enough to know we can't play god with others' lives at stake
So now we've all discovered the world wasn't only made for whites
What step are you gonna take to try and set things right
In this stolen land

B. Cockburn

 

[ananda]

Uh-huh. When you want to have a serious conversation, I'm more than happy to take part. Let me know.

I doubt that the vast majority of people with common sense with agree with your assessment about my seriousness. I also wonder who else wouldn't mind cost-effective squatters in their home. Anyone care to share?

 

[Armoured]

I doubt that the vast majority of people with common sense with agree with your assessment about my seriousness. I also wonder who else wouldn't mind cost-effective squatters in their home. Anyone care to share?

So how do you feel about all those legal strangers in your home?

 

[Viren]

No,no,no. A system of powerful space-based lasers that are directed at the border and swing from side to side along its length at the speed of light so that nothing can pass over the border without being vaporized.

It would be pretty cool to have thousands of sharks with laser beams on their heads patrolling the border canal.

 

[Armoured]

It would be pretty cool to have thousands of sharks with laser beams on their heads patrolling the border canal.

Are they ill tempered?

 

[Viren]

Are they ill tempered?

Mutated sea bass would and they'd be cheaper too.

 

[Hank77]

IMO, we shouldn't legalize them (except for marijuana). They should remain controlled substances.

That said, the cartels have a massive income, but they aren't wealthy. Basically every dollar that comes in, goes back out to enforcers, transportation, bribes, etc. The leaders are wealthy, but not wealthy on the scale such that they can sustain the machine. We could crash the market.

Back in the day when you could get yellow jackets prescribed by your GP, there was a black market. Today there is a black market for controlled substances. So I'm little confused about what you are proposing. Doctors prescribing heroin, cocaine?
If drug companies are involved there will continue to be a black market and drug cartels. It will be cheaper to buy on the street.

 

[Hank77]

That is one of the reason most Americans are disliked

Guess what. Most of us couldn't care less if you like us. So unless you have some constructive ideas, your posts are meaningless.

But conservatives will never go for that, so don't worry about it.

Libertarians have been talking about decriminalizing for years. Nobodies been listening.

But even just the free clinics is enough to put a dent in cartel income.

The problem with the free clinics we already have is that they do not provide serious mental health. Without getting to the underlining reasons for the original drug use, they go right back to using or never stop. Many addictions began as teens and very young adults. The problem is not just among the disenfranchised and poor.
There is also the problem of the drug culture. It becomes a way of life, their friends/family, where they hang out is all part of the culture. When they try to walk away they are literally walking away from their life and culture. It's just like kids that join gangs, the gang becomes their family.

 

[Red Fox]

The American government is corrupted by [who knows where the money comes from] what difference does it make where the money comes from if it corrupts just the same.

That is one of the reason most Americans are disliked, they never question their own motives or reasons for doing things,
they just assume that they are always right, perhaps it's because some are slow learners and are just overgrown jocks,
strength coupled with very little knowledge tends to do that.

I agree with your assessments about the United States government and about America in general. And I live here.

 

[ananda]

So how do you feel about all those legal strangers in your home?

Legal strangers (people I allow into my home) may stay for a visit and enjoy my hospitality in my literal home for a short while, but then they are expected to leave and support themselves and not freeload off me and my family.

 

[Hank77]

I agree with your assessments about the United States government and about America in general. And I live here.

You live here. The flow of drugs across our southern border is effecting your people.
Do you have any constructive ideas as to how to deal with this issue?

 

[Red Fox]

You live here. The flow of drugs across our southern border is effecting your people.
Do you have any constructive ideas as to how to deal with this issue?

Yes, we deal with the drug problems at the source, but we don't penalize or blacklist other immigrants coming in from Mexico who aren't drug dealers or violent criminals.