[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] How would you secure the border?

[Armoured]

Back in the day when you could get yellow jackets prescribed by your GP, there was a black market. Today there is a black market for controlled substances. So I'm little confused about what you are proposing. Doctors prescribing heroin, cocaine?
If drug companies are involved there will continue to be a black market and drug cartels. It will be cheaper to buy on the street.

Is there a significant black market for alcohol? Tobacco? How about caffein?

 

[Armoured]

Legal strangers (people I allow into my home) may stay for a visit and enjoy my hospitality in my literal home for a short while, but then they are expected to leave and support themselves and not freeload off me and my family.

Don't really get how this "analogy" thing works, do you?

 

[Hank77]

Is there a significant black market for alcohol? Tobacco? How about caffein?

You can buy all those things over the counter, you don't have to get a prescription.

 

[Willtor]

Back in the day when you could get yellow jackets prescribed by your GP, there was a black market. Today there is a black market for controlled substances. So I'm little confused about what you are proposing. Doctors prescribing heroin, cocaine?
If drug companies are involved there will continue to be a black market and drug cartels. It will be cheaper to buy on the street.

Don't misunderstand: I'm not saying legalize the drugs -- decriminalize them. Legalize means they can be sold (possibly with restrictions). Decriminalize means when a person is caught with them, it isn't put on his or her criminal record. This has a few benefits in reducing the market for drugs. First, it means that people don't go to prison for possession, where developing a habit commonly occurs in people who were not already drug users. Second, it eliminates disincentives to cleaning up. Third, it makes it easier to find dealers since someone who alerts the authorities is in no danger of criminal charges, themselves.

 

[Willtor]

...

Libertarians have been talking about decriminalizing for years. Nobodies been listening.

I know libertarians have been big on decriminalization for years -- what I was talking about was the whole program.

The problem with the free clinics we already have is that they do not provide serious mental health. Without getting to the underlining reasons for the original drug use, they go right back to using or never stop. Many addictions began as teens and very young adults. The problem is not just among the disenfranchised and poor.
There is also the problem of the drug culture. It becomes a way of life, their friends/family, where they hang out is all part of the culture. When they try to walk away they are literally walking away from their life and culture. It's just like kids that join gangs, the gang becomes their family.

As I say, going the whole way would be amazing on many levels. But free clinics would be a good start.

 

[Armoured]

You can buy all those things over the counter, you don't have to get a prescription.

Kind of my point...

 

[jayem]

Kinky Friedman (he's my man ) had an interesting border security proposal back when he was running for Governor of TX. He'd hire a team of Mexican Army generales for a big pot of money. They'd have charge of the border, but they'd be paid retroactively after a year. For every illegal immigrant found in Texas that year, money would be deducted from their pot.

 

[KarateCowboy]

Interior enforcement. E-Verify, workplace raids, etc. Any sensible policy against illegal immigration would, by nature, heavily employ deportations.

 

[Armoured]

Interior enforcement. E-Verify, workplace raids, etc. Any sensible policy against illegal immigration would, by nature, heavily employ deportations.

Same question to you, is it cost effective? Or is it sheer bloody mindedness?

 

[KarateCowboy]

Same question to you, is it cost effective? Or is it sheer bloody mindedness?

There have been loads of number crunchers who have made that a forgone conclusion. Average savings is $700,000 a pop. That's on deportations. Doesn't figure in preventions.

I'm not sure what "mindedness" is, much less a "bloody" variety, so I'll have to pass on that.

 

[Armoured]

There have been loads of number crunchers who have made that a forgone conclusion. Average savings is $700,000 a pop. That's on deportations. Doesn't figure in preventions.

I'm not sure what "mindedness" is, much less a "bloody" variety, so I'll have to pass on that.

So how much is the wall going to cost?

Bloody mindedness=doing things because you've decided to do them, and hang the consequences.

 

[Innsmuthbride]

No,no,no. A system of powerful space-based lasers that are directed at the border and swing from side to side along its length at the speed of light so that nothing can pass over the border without being vaporized.

Easier to just nuke south & central America.

 

[Armoured]

Easier to just nuke south & central America.

Don't give them ideas.

 

[Ken-1122]

I doubt that the vast majority of people with common sense with agree with your assessment about my seriousness. I also wonder who else wouldn't mind cost-effective squatters in their home. Anyone care to share?

His claim that it is more expensive to build and maintain a fence to keep illegals out than the cost of letting them in is a ridicules claim he has yet to establish. If he were able to refute your argument, he would have done so. The reason he pretends to question your seriousness is because it is easier to do that than to admit you are right.

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

Yes, we deal with the drug problems at the source, but we don't penalize or blacklist other immigrants coming in from Mexico who aren't drug dealers or violent criminals.

It isn't the immigrants we have a problem with; it's the Illegal immigrants that are a problem.

Ken

 

[Grafted In]

Last night I sat down and thought about the situation here in the US regarding the border with Mexico. I live in a very modest home and drive a 12 year old car. But I began to visualize sitting along the Mexican border looking into the US as everyone goes about their day never doubting that their next meal is a given. As I thought I began to see my grandkids in raged clothes, their bellies swollen by malnutrition. I began to see them as what must be millions of children in Mexico living in a 10x12 walls with no roof, so crowded there'S hardly room to lay down to sleep. Millions of children who've never once in there lives smilled. It began to hurt me inside to think of my own grandkids having never smilled, always hungry and crying because of their miserable existence.
My mind just won't allow me to dwell on that image long. Never hear a giggle or laughter from them. Only tears and misery. I just can't imagine what it must be like for parents and grandparents to live that every day.
The sad thing is there's no answer. All governments as well as those in power outside the law make it imposibe to help.
I posted a witty response earlier in this thread and now I feel like crap. I just can't get that image out of my mind of my own kids and grandkids eating dirt and drinking mud. No laughter. No joy. Nobody talking. Just dead silence and broken hearts.

 

[Red Fox]

It isn't the immigrants we have a problem with; it's the Illegal immigrants that are a problem.

Ken

From my perspective, I don't see any (non-violent) Mexicans coming here from Mexico as a problem, since I don't consider them to be immigrants.

 

[ananda]

Don't really get how this "analogy" thing works, do you?

I get it just fine. No need to stoop to personal attacks because you disagree with my position.

 

[Armoured]

I get it just fine. No need to stoop to personal attacks because you disagree with my position.

If you could ease off the hair trigger a little, you might see I haven't disagreed with your position at all, but rather asked you to explain it.

 

[Ken-1122]

From my perspective, I don't see any (non-violent) Mexicans coming here from Mexico as a problem, since I don't consider them to be immigrants.

I said ILLEGAL immigrants. There is a difference ya know!

Ken