[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] A problem at the bottom of reason

[Chriliman]

Fair enough. The problem comes about when people who claim that things in God's realm are also things they can talk about. After all, it isn't as if non-scientist humans somehow have magic powers to observe things that scientists don't.
So any limitation put on scientsts because of their human limitations also limits the rest of humanity.

Except that if you think it's possible that all knowledge is from God, then even a 12yr old boy who has faith in God could possibly have vastly more wisdom than the smartest scientist who has no faith in God.

 

[ScottA]

I'm asking how one might a evaluate one's personal experience or testimony as true or not.

I can only speak for myself, and then add that my experience confirms the experience of others and vice versa.

You did say "personal" and that is a very important factor. Not to suggest that the claims should mean nothing to anyone else. On the contrary, it should be considered just as valid as someone who has had any other kind of experience. It is indeed fantastic and understandable that the information be considered unbelievable...but then again, there is just too much to be ignored or categorically denied.

The determining factor for me, was that the experience had, and continues to, exceed my previous understanding, my previous reality: No contest.

 

[ScottA]

Fair enough. The problem comes about when people who claim that things in God's realm are also things they can talk about. After all, it isn't as if non-scientist humans somehow have magic powers to observe things that scientists don't.
So any limitation put on scientsts because of their human limitations also limits the rest of humanity.

I must disagree. Just as I would have to concede (and do) that much of science is magic to me, simply because it is not my area of expertise...so too, it should be considered that things outside the realm of science, would indeed seem to be magic. It is okay for things to be over our perspective heads...it's okay.

 

[HitchSlap]

I can only speak for myself, and then add that my experience confirms the experience of others and vice versa.

You did say "personal" and that is a very important factor. Not to suggest that the claims should mean nothing to anyone else. On the contrary, it should be considered just as valid as someone who has had any other kind of experience. It is indeed fantastic and understandable that the information be considered unbelievable...but then again, there is just too much to be ignored or categorically denied.

The determining factor for me, was that the experience had, and continues to, exceed my previous understanding, my previous reality: No contest.

So anyone who claims to have seen bigfoot is evidence, because others have claimed to see bigfoot? What should someone like me, who has never seen bigfoot, despite spending an enormous amount of time in the Sierra Nevada, believe?

 

[Chriliman]

I do not recognize "outside of space and time" as a valid concept. You did not answer my question. How would one ever know, objectively, whether or not the god one worships exists outside of time and space, especially since you haven't proven that the god you worship even exists in the first place? Answer this question and you'll see why it is unreasonable to believe such a notion. Also what I meant by contradicts reality is the fact that the god concept affirms the primacy of consciousness. So I reject it for this reason regardless of where it is purported to exist.

When one has an experience that can only be explained by applying the truths represented in the Bible, then one can affirm their beliefs that the Bible is the inherent word of God. If they continue to trust in God, God will continually reveal more truth to them, which strengthens their faith even more. Not all evidence needs to be physical evidence in order to represent truth. After all, truth itself is not evident, it must be discovered. The question then becomes, what makes truth inevident? Lies.

 

[dlamberth]

If you believe in Jesus, you should listen to what he has said and is saying.

What I find myself listening to is the Heart of Christ and what it is saying.

.

 

[HitchSlap]

The same could be said of any subject. The question is, how would you know if you're wrong?

All changes mine.

When one has an experience that can only be explained by applying the truths represented about bigfoot, then one can affirm their beliefs that bigfoot is the inherent word of bigfoot. If they continue to trust in bigfoot, bigfoot will continually reveal more truth to them, which strengthens their faith even more. Not all evidence needs to be physical evidence in order to represent truth. After all, truth itself is not evident, it must be discovered. The question then becomes, what makes truth inevident? Lies.

 

[dlamberth]

You have not been representing the God of the Hebrews or Christians with your claims.

I'm not trying to represent God from the Jewish OR Christian perspective.

None of what you just said is true according to God Himself.

Well, I find it true from what God is saying from the perspective of His own Creation.

.

 

[Chriliman]

What I find myself listening to is the Heart of Christ and what it is saying.

.

You may actually be listening to your own heart, when you should be listening to the truth of Christ.

Jeremiah 17:9
"The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?"

Notice how I'm backing everything I say with scripture? I wouldn't say it if I couldn't back it with scripture.

 

[Chriliman]

The same could be said of any subject. The question is, how would you know if you're wrong?

All changes mine.

Yea, thanks, that made a lot of sense. Thankfully, the God I serve is not Bigfoot! Go ahead and scoff if you must.

Jude 1:18
"They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions."

 

[dlamberth]

What you believe or not, does not change what is true.

Where I jumped into this discussion is when I saw One Reality as being represented as Truth. Hopefully I've been able to show that's not true. What you claim as "True", I've been showing is not "True" for others. No matter how much you claim truth, It should be very clear by now that it's your truth and not my truth. And that's OK.


.

 

[dlamberth]

You may actually be listening to your own heart, when you should be listening to the truth of Christ.

Do you know about listening to the Heart of Christ? Your pretty judgmental there.

.

 

[HitchSlap]

Yea, thanks, that made a lot of sense. Thankfully, the God I serve is not Bigfoot! Go ahead and scoff if you must.

Jude 1:18
"They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions."

I'm not scoffing. I'm simply pointing out that anyone can assert anything, but how would you know if it's the truth or not.

Hence, our third assumption: Models with predictive capabilities work better than those without.

 

[ScottA]

So anyone who claims to have seen bigfoot is evidence, because others have claimed to see bigfoot? What should someone like me, who has never seen bigfoot, despite spending an enormous amount of time in the Sierra Nevada, believe?

The difference is that bigfoot may or may not reveal himself to you. No promises. But we do have a promise from God that if you seek him...you will find him. And, yes, if you don't go there, it will never happen in this lifetime (only after).

 

[ScottA]

Where I jumped into this discussion is when I saw One Reality as being represented as Truth. Hopefully I've been able to show that's not true. What you claim as "True", I've been showing is not "True" for others. No matter how much you claim truth, It should be very clear by now that it's your truth and not my truth. And that's OK.


.

But that is ONLY true in so much as it speaks to the circuitry of reality in this world. As for the reality of the Kingdom of God which supersedes all other realities...it is NOT true at all.

 

[ScottA]

I'm not trying to represent God from the Jewish OR Christian perspective.

Well, it's I find it true from what God is saying from the perspective of His own Creation.

.

The world looks to many gods, but only One has revealed himself to men, first to the Jews and then to the gentiles.

That which is created is not God, but God who created it.

 

[HitchSlap]

The difference is that bigfoot may or may not reveal himself to you. No promises. But we do have a promise from God that if you seek him...you will find him. And, yes, if you don't go there, it will never happen in this lifetime (only after).

NVM.

 

[Chriliman]

I'm not scoffing. I'm simply pointing out that anyone can assert anything, but how would you know if it's the truth or not.

Hence, our third assumption: Models with predictive capabilities work better than those without.

The Bible predicted there would be scoffers in the end time. I've experienced many scoffers in the present times. Should I ignore the Bible since its predictions are coming true? Or should I listen even closer since its predictions are coming true?

Scoff: speak to someone or about something in a scornfully derisive or mocking way.

I'm pretty sure comparing the God I believe in to bigfoot, falls under the definition of scoffing.

 

[HitchSlap]

The Bible predicted there would be scoffers in the end time. I've experienced many scoffers in the present times. Should I ignore the Bible since its predictions are coming true? Or should I listen even closer since its predictions are coming true?

Scoff: speak to someone or about something in a scornfully derisive or mocking way.

I'm pretty sure comparing the God I believe in to bigfoot, falls under the definition of scoffing.

Please read my sig. If you're unable to discuss your assertions without getting your feelings hurt, then grow a thicker skin or recuse yourself?

 

[Chriliman]

Do you know about listening to the Heart of Christ? Your pretty judgmental there.

.

I only judge based on the truth scripture reveals. I know the consequences of wrongfully judging others.

John 14:6
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

If you are correct about listening to the heart of Christ, then why doesn't Christ say anything about his heart in the Bible?