[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] A problem at the bottom of reason

[dlamberth]

So what do you think the purpose of the Holy Spirit is?

I've never though of the Holy Spirit as having a purpose other than as the Divine presence riding through out and with in all of Creation. My experiences of the Holy Spirit have been one of overwhelming infinite Love that brought me into communion with God. It's pretty un-explainable, but that's what I'm able to say about it.

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[Chriliman]

You bring up an area I have wondered about for some time. The Catholics and Orthodox have all sorts of icons of Christ holding His heart or in some way having His heart out there in front where a person has to consider it in their contemplation. And one reads about the Heart of Christ in their literature. But it's a total unknown in the Protestant community. I don't understand that. I ask myself, why limit the knowing of Christ? Personally, I'm unable to think of a deeper or fuller way of communion with Christ than by putting myself in His Heart and seeing what I see there. I believe that's what we are invited to do when He asks us to follow Him. So He may not of utwardly have said anything about His heart in the Bible, what He did say becomes fuller in meaning and understanding through His Heart. And He certainly did operate from His heart, so I'd think any true lover of God would consider exploring that aspect of Christ.

Edited to add: Google "Heart_of_Christ"

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The Bible refers to the heart of man as the deepest inner thoughts and feelings of man, where the deepest truths about a man reside. So I guess I would view Jesus heart as the deepest truths in life to ever be discovered. I don't think we should focus on His heart, but rather the love and truth that comes from His heart.

 

[Chriliman]

I've never though of the Holy Spirit as having a purpose other than as the Divine presence riding through out and with in all of Creation. My experiences of the Holy Spirit have been one of overwhelming infinite Love that brought me into communion with God. It's pretty un-explainable, but that's what I'm able to say about it.

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I view the Holy Spirit as God's way of communicating His love and truth to us and through us. We only have access to the Holy Spirit when we fully commit our lives to Jesus.

 

[Chriliman]

Pascal's wager is weak-sauce.

I'm asking generally, how would you know if you were wrong or not, about anything.

I can only base what is right and wrong off of my experiences and the physical and spiritual evidence that points to truth.

 

[HitchSlap]

I can only base what is right and wrong off of my experiences and the physical and spiritual evidence that points to truth.

What if your spiritual experience (the Bible) states slavery is permitted, and physical experience (people would rather not be property) conflicts with each other, how would you settle this dilemma?

 

[dlamberth]

I don't think we should focus on His heart, but rather the love and truth that comes from His heart.

I like to go to the source myself and experience directly the Heart of Christ. I find that it adds an extra dimension to the Love and Truth of Christ that one would not otherwise have access to.

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[True Scotsman]

You do realize science requires faith right? If scientists didn't have faith that there is some objective truth to be realized they wouldn't be so driven to find it. It does matter what you put your faith in.

No, I don,t realize this at all. Quite the opposite. Why would we need faith to believe there is an objective reality when this fact is directly observable. Also there are the axioms and the primacy of existence that form an objective basis for science. Science requires reason and its tool logic. These are polar opposites of faith. Reason is the process which is consistent with the primacy of existence. Faith is consistent with the primacy of consciousness metaphysics. The two are incompatible.

 

[Chriliman]

That is the path I am on, that is what I saw in your posts.
I found the mystery of the spiritual path in psalms, it is "be still and know".
Not study and know for it fills the mind with word and chapter and the mind is too busy to be still in order to know.
I am sure you are on a similar path.


This is my valid reply
But there is nothing wrong with scripture if one perceives it. Simple scanning is different than studying it.

God did not inspire the Bible so that we can pick and choose what we like out of it and leave the rest. He inspired the Bible in order to teach us His entire truth about His perfect plan for salvation. If you don't take every word in the Bible as true, then you risk accusing God of being a liar. At one point I did think there were lies in the Bible. My reasoning was if Satan is in the bible then evil is in the bible and if evil is in the bible then whats stopping lies from being in the Bible.

Then the Holy Spirit revealed the truth and the truth is that evil will use the Bible to lie to us, which is why we must always be on our guard and fully equip ourselves with the power of Jesus. Evil's soul purpose is to deceive and destroy us.

 

[Chriliman]

No, I don,t realize this at all. Quite the opposite. Why would we need faith to believe there is an objective reality when this fact is directly observable. Also there is the axioms and the primacy of existence that form an objective basis for science.

Do we know the entire truth about reality yet? No, we do not, so we must have faith that there is an entire truth, or else what's motivating us to seek it? Look up the word faith, its not all about "religion". Besides if you look up "religion", you'll realize science could easily qualify as a religion, minus a god.

 

[Chriliman]

I like to go to the source myself and experience directly the Heart of Christ. I find that it adds an extra dimension to the Love and Truth of Christ that one would not otherwise have access to.

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Are there any truths about the end times that have been shown to you? Or any truths that might go against what we find in the Bible?

 

[Chriliman]

What if your spiritual experience (the Bible) states slavery is permitted, and physical experience (people would rather not be property) conflicts with each other, how would you settle this dilemma?

If you believe the Bible is the word of God, then you also believe man is corrupt and evil and worthless. Slavery is an evil thing, contrived by evil men devoid of God. But if you look at life from a slave's perspective who believes in God, they know the life they have is only temporary, they know they will one day be in paradise with their Lord Jesus. This gives them hope. Besides the Bible only ever refers to slaves in a respectable way, never encouraging the mistreatment of slaves.

 

[True Scotsman]

Do we know the entire truth about reality yet? No, we do not, so we must have faith that there is an entire truth, or else what's motivating us to seek it? Look up the word faith, its not all about "religion". Besides if you look up "religion", you'll realize science could easily qualify as a religion, minus a god.

No we don't. We have discovered much about reality but why would we need faith that there is more, much more, to discover about it. The history of science is a continual growth in understanding of the world. We have mountains of evidence that science is a reliable method for gaining knowledge bout reality. Science is in no way a religion. For one thing it does not operate on faith and for another it does not seek knowledge from supernatural sources. Now you're just being silly.

 

[HitchSlap]

If you believe the Bible is the word of God, then you also believe man is corrupt and evil and worthless. Slavery is an evil thing, contrived by evil men devoid of God. But if you look at life from a slave's perspective who believes in God, they know the life they have is only temporary, they know they will one day be in paradise with their Lord Jesus. This gives them hope. Besides the Bible only ever refers to slaves in a respectable way, never encouraging the mistreatment of slaves.

To be sure: beat them, just don't kill them. Respectable indeed.

 

[Chriliman]

To be sure: beat them, just don't kill them. Respectable indeed.

I believe the word of God is true, therefore I believe its true that men are evil, therefore it's true that evil men beat their slaves, its true that this is an evil thing to do, all of this I believe to be true, so how does that make the word of God false?

 

[HitchSlap]

I believe the word of God is true, therefore I believe its true that men are evil, therefore it's true that evil men beat their slaves, its true that this is an evil thing to do, all of this I believe to be true, so how does that make the word of God false?

Your God endorses slavery.

 

[dlamberth]

Are there any truths about the end times that have been shown to you? Or any truths that might go against what we find in the Bible?

End times, I see as a Christian belief. Though I do see drastic changes because we are over extending the capabilities of the earth to support us human beings. And something has to give. We are making the surface of the earth such that it can not support human beings, so it may be us that gives. We have lost the sacredness that the earth is and are trashing her in the process. The Pope is exactly right on in his resent writings.

You might see the following as a truth that goes against the Bible, but it has a lot of meaning to me and is something that I have received from a Christian named Teilhard de Chardin. My teachers are the mystics of the various spiritual traditions. Teilhard sees our salvation through Creation rather than the resurrection. The man named Jesus was put on the Cross and Christ rose from the Cross. He sees through the lens of Christogenesis with the belief that we will evolve into Christ Consciousness. I agree. But to continue, I experience Christ as completing Creation. But also Creation completes Christ. Along the same lines, I don't believe that I can have Christ with out Creation. Creation brings something to Christ. The universe is about Christ. Everywhere I look, there God is. Yet Christ is not about the universe. Christ is present and unfolding and is to be lived and experience. I don't know if you can see this by what I've writen, but I believe the central Christian issue is Redemption through the Creation. And the human being is integral with the evolution of the universe and the Divine as intrinsic to Creation.

There's a lot there, I know. And I suspect you will say this is against the Bible.

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[Chriliman]

No we don't. We have discovered much about reality but why would we need faith that there is more, much more, to discover about it. The history of science is a continual growth in understanding of the world. We have mountains of evidence that science is a reliable method for gaining knowledge bout reality. Science is in no way a religion. For one thing it does not operate on faith and for another it does not seek knowledge from supernatural sources. Now you're just being silly.

There are many theories in science that are based on assumptions and not based on physical evidence like string theory, SUSY theory and inflation theory. Since they are not based on physical evidence, the physicist who study them are completely relying on faith that the theory represents truth, since the theories have not been proven true.

How is this any different from having faith in God, even though God has not been proven true by science?

 

[madera23]

So what do you think the purpose of the Holy Spirit is?

The truth comes through the Holy Spirit through insights and revelations.
In other words the truth comes through us rather than through thought. It is a knowing.
Madera

 

[Chriliman]

End times, I see as a Christian belief. Though I do see drastic changes because we are over extending the capabilities of the earth to support us human beings. And something has to give. We are making the surface of the earth such that it can not support human beings, so it may be us that gives. We have lost the sacredness that the earth is and are trashing her in the process. The Pope is exactly right on in his resent writings.

You might see the following as a truth that goes against the Bible, but it has a lot of meaning to me and is something that I have received from a Christian named Teilhard de Chardin. My teachers are the mystics of the various spiritual traditions. Teilhard sees our salvation through Creation rather than the resurrection. The man named Jesus was put on the Cross and Christ rose from the Cross. He sees through the lens of Christogenesis with the belief that we will evolve into Christ Consciousness. I agree. But to continue, I experience Christ as completing Creation. But also Creation completes Christ. Along the same lines, I don't believe that I can have Christ with out Creation. Creation brings something to Christ. The universe is about Christ. Everywhere I look, there God is. Yet Christ is not about the universe. Christ is present and unfolding and is to be lived and experience. I don't know if you can see this by what I've writen, but I believe the central Christian issue is Redemption through the Creation. And the human being is integral with the evolution of the universe and the Divine as intrinsic to Creation.

There's a lot there, I know. And I suspect you will say this is against the Bible.

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I will preface by saying I don't agree with any of that, but I respect your honesty. Yes, we are destroying the planet, but its because we are evil sinners and we can only be saved through the blood of Jesus. God says Himself that he will destroy the old heaven and earth and create a new heaven and earth. So quite frankly, I'll be glad to see this old earth be destroyed along with my old evil physical body. You need the word of God the Bible to gain knowledge about what Jesus did and then you need to believe that Jesus did what the Bible says he did and then you will be made a new creation in Christ Jesus when you fully believe in Him with all your heart, soul and mind.

 

[Chriliman]

Your God endorses slavery.

Nope, He allowed it, just like he allows evil, but only for a specific purpose and that purpose is to teach His truth. You can't have true love without free will and apparently you can't have free will without evil, so God allows it in order to express His true love for us, which is the sacrifice of His son Jesus Christ.