Paul Reveals the timing of Revelation 20

[jerry kelso]

The Two Peoples of God doctrine, and its attempt to separate the Church from Israel at the Pretrib rapture is not found in the Bible. The doctrine is less than 200 years old.
It is a form of Dual Covenant Theology, based on race.
The original source of the doctrine is found below in this video that I produced for YouTube. Here you will find the claim that God did not fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary. It is the major error of the doctrine.

Genesis of Dispensational Theology

.......................................

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


Ignore the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18, and maybe you can convince some people that your story above about the Millennium is true.


This thread starts out with Paul revealing the truth in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1.
Paul said the fire comes at the return of Christ. The fire comes at the end of Revelation 20.
Paul said Christ judges both the living and the dead at His appearing. The judgment of the dead occurs at the end of Revelation 20.
Either Paul was confused, or you are confused.


Try to deal with the subject of this thread, instead of providing your Dispensational Theology narratives. Do you think the Apostle Paul was wrong?

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baberean2,

I have already debunked all this but it you cannot debunk my position.
All you can is give your talking points of your position.

2. I’ve already told you that you the phrase dual theory is your accusation and false opinion about Israel and the church.
Do you think that you will have the same rulership position as me in the kingdom or in the same area? Jerry kelso

 

[BABerean2]

Do you think that you will have the same rulership position as me in the kingdom or in the same area? Jerry kelso

Jerry,

I only want one thing at His return.

I want to see the face the the one who voluntarily laid down on that cross and allowed the soldiers to pound the spikes into His flesh, when He could have prayed to the Father and had 12 legions of angels to intercede for Him.

He did it for me, to pay my sin debt.

He also did it to reverse the curse. (See Acts of the Apostles 3:20-21)

If you think you are going to receive a greater reward for promoting John Nelson Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine, get a Scofield Reference Bible and memorize the notes found in it...


.

 

[jerry kelso]

If that is the case (and it is) then we are in the millennium/Satan's little season era.



The catching away/resurrection happens when Jesus comes. Then the end! 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 says: “now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For (or gar or seeing) since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For (or gar or seeing) as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when ‘he shall have delivered up’ (present active subjunctive) the kingdom to God, even the Father; when ‘he shall have put down’ (aorist active subjunctive) all rule and all authority and power. For (or gar or seeing) he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For (or gar or seeing) ‘he hath put’ (aorist active indicative) all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him (speaking of the second coming), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all” (1 Corinthians 15:25-28).

Firstly, the usage of the word “for” in this reading simply tells us that what follows is a deduction drawn from what has previously been stated. The repeated usage of the word “for” in this reading demonstrates what is being spoken of is an inference to what has just been stated. In this particular passage, the Greek word gar links and then further expands upon the fact that the Second Advent is the time “when he (Christ) shall have (finally) put down all rule and all authority and power.” The Greek word ‘gar’, which interprets and carries the same meaning as our English word “for” is used as a key constituent part of the previous statement or subject matter, to simply allocate a fuller enlargement or reinforcement of the matter just mentioned. The word is mainly used for the purpose of argument, explanation or intensification.

Christ, the OT prophets and the NT writers repeatedly enlarge on a truth or recap a matter when relaying truth. This is a common way of teaching. That is all Paul is doing here. After explaining the finality of the second coming he then explains that he will reign until the last enemy is subdued.

Even though it might not seem it at times, God has got his providential hand on our lives. Moment by moment he watches over us. With a Father’s eye He sovereignly brings circumstances and situations into our lives at the right time in order to conform us unto His purposes. When we disobey, He takes the rod of correction to the seat of our understanding.

Second, 1 Corinthians 15:22-24 tells us that “all rule and all authority and power” are finally “put down” or katargeésee or abolished at the “coming” or parousia of the Lord, which is, as we have established, confirmed in the next sentence as “the end.” The kingdom of God is finally and eternally presented “up,” whereas the kingdom of darkness is finally and eternally “put down.” It is this all-consummating last day that ushers in the end (or completion) of all things.

Premils delay the moment when “all things shall be subdued unto him” by 1,000 years, holding that “the bondage of corruption” with all its awful facets like sin death and decay is only eliminated 1,000 years after the coming of the Lord. They therefore postpone the final “put down” of all “all rule and all authority and power” till after the Gog / Magog battle in Revelation 20, where they insist Christ finally removes all wickedness from the earth. However, that is not what is being intimated in this passage. This reading actually locates all this at the Lord’s “coming.” It is there that “all things shall be subdued unto him” (1 Corinthians 15:28), “when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power” (1 Corinthians 15:24).

Third, Scripture repeatedly presents a truth and then explains or enlarges upon that truth. After telling us that Christ’s coming sees the termination of the wicked and their evil operations, the writer tells us that Christ’s reign over His enemies must continue until this climactic point. Whilst “all power” is now assuredly given unto Christ “in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18) through His life, death and resurrection, and whilst through this victorious work “he hath put all things under his feet” in a sovereign manner, we have not yet seen the final subduing of wickedness. This comes at the second coming of the Lord.

Paul is simply reinforcing the thought that he just stated about the climactic coming of Christ. It is the time “when he shall have put down (or abolished) all rule and all authority and power.” 1 Corinthians 15 verses 24 and 28 repeat the same all-consummating truth.

For Christ to be reigning over His enemies does not in any way suggest these foes are finally and effectively subjugated unto the Lord. No! No more than the rebellious subjects of an earthly monarch who are determined to overthrow the rule of that leader would considered not under the rule of that said king or queen. Whether they like it or not and whether they believe it or not they are subject to the ruler and his laws.

sovereign grace,

1. Satan’s little season now?
If this millennial kingdom and the 1000 year is an unknown amount of time you are guessing and cannot be emphatic.

2. I understand your position even if you didn’t use gar etc.
The problem is that the millennial kingdom is not now because it is a physical reign on earth with Christ. That is what the Jews were looking for in Christ ministry but they rejected him Matthew 23:37-39. Jesus said he wouldn’t see them again till the kingdom would come.
Your millennial kingdom is spiritual but not physical right now.
That goes against Jesus Ministry at the at the mercy seat Hebrews 2:17-18; 3:14-16; 4:14-16; 7; 8:1-6, 10:19-22.
Jesus told Pilate his kingdom was not of this world otherwise his angels would defend him.
The Jews understood their covenants where they would rule and reign at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4. Forever! 1Chronicles 28:1-7; 2 Samuel 7:13-16. Eternal, but conditioned by all Israel being saved Romans 11:25-29.
Acts 1:6-7 shows the KoH to be real but not in the church age. When? During the 1000 years and the purpose is to put down all sin and rebellion, 1 Corinthians 15:24-25.
Israel has to be purified Daniel 9:24 not the church and that is the reason for Jacob’s trouble in the last 3.5 years of the tribulation Jeremiah 30:7-10; Daniel 12:2; Matthew 24:21.
Revelation 7, the 144,00 is Jewish, Revelation is in conjunction with Israel and the physical temple where they have sacrifices. The church age saints have nothing to do with a physical temple. You have to spiritualize the physical temple, which you do.
Revelation 12, the sun clothed woman and the remnant is Jewish.
The church age saints are never said to flee into a wilderness and they never have a remnant.
The 7 heads and 10 crowns are all in conjunction with the nations that oppressed Israel in the past and that will be in the future.
Armageddon will be in the land of Israel cause all the armies of the nations will be gathered together against them Revelation 16 etc.

3. The governments of this world and the hearts of sinful men are ruled by Satan.
Christians are being trained for the kingdom right now 2 Timothy 2:12.

4. The Kingdom of Heaven is the 1000 years when Christ will put down all sin and rebellion.
The son will give the KoH back to the Father so he can be All in All.
This earth is out of harmony with the universe and when God becomes all in all
it will the KoG physical that is in complete harmony. Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

Jerry,

I only want one thing at His return.

I want to see the face the the one who voluntarily laid down on that cross and allowed the soldiers to pound the spikes into His flesh, when He could have prayed to the Father and had 12 legions of angels to intercede for Him.

He did it for me, to pay my sin debt.

He also did it to reverse the curse. (See Acts of the Apostles 3:20-21)

If you think you are going to receive a greater reward for promoting John Nelson Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine, get a Scofield Reference Bible and memorize the notes found in it...


.

baberean2,

1. I rejoice to see him and live with him in Heaven during the tribulation.
Jesus said in John 14 he went to prepare a place for us, and if he went he would come again and receive us unto hisself that where he is there we would be also.
Same sentiment as 1Thessalonians 4:17; and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
He went to Heaven to prepare us so much more it could not be on earth.
It could not be the Holy City at the Second Coming because it will not come down until after the New Heaven and the New Earth.
The Second Coming is when we come out of Heaven to do battle on earth.
Once again you have wrongly divided the word.

2. Do you not believe in the Believers Works Judgement? 1Corinthians 3:11-15
What if your works were all wood, hay and stubble and you didn’t have a crown to cast down for your good works of being a bad steward, you might find yourself embarrassed.

3. Either way You are not rightly dividing the word like usual. Jerry kelso

 

[sovereigngrace]

sovereign grace,

1. Satan’s little season now?
If this millennial kingdom and the 1000 year is an unknown amount of time you are guessing and cannot be emphatic.

Of course i do not know exactly when we enter that season or when Jesus is coming, that is why I put a forward slash. What i believe is that the signs of the times are there. We might be in that season where Satan is given a final throw before Jesus comes. Satan’s little season corresponds with the release of the beast / antichrist / mystery of iniquity. This is speaking of the last battle before the climactic coming of Christ. We are in the kingdom period now, it will come in all its final and eternal glory at the second coming.

2. I understand your position even if you didn’t use gar etc.
The problem is that the millennial kingdom is not now because it is a physical reign on earth with Christ.

That is your opinion. But it is not in the text. I have been asking for years: show me this in Rev 20? The reality Revelation is mainly a heavenly scene. It is a picture of the disembodied spirits reigning now with Christ. The dead in Christ in total ("the souls") are depicted here (both those that die through natural death and those that die through martyrdom). Collectively this redeemed host reign with Christ in glory until the physical resurrection. This therefore is a picture of the immediate state.

That is what the Jews were looking for in Christ ministry but they rejected him Matthew 23:37-39. Jesus said he wouldn’t see them again till the kingdom would come.
Your millennial kingdom is spiritual but not physical right now.
That goes against Jesus Ministry at the at the mercy seat Hebrews 2:17-18; 3:14-16; 4:14-16; 7; 8:1-6, 10:19-22.

How?

Jesus told Pilate his kingdom was not of this world otherwise his angels would defend him.

The old temporal OT kingdom was simply an imperfect shadow and type of the true and real NT heavenly eternal kingdom. We are not going back to the old. It is gone forever!

The Jews understood their covenants where they would rule and reign at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4. Forever! 1Chronicles 28:1-7; 2 Samuel 7:13-16. Eternal, but conditioned by all Israel being saved Romans 11:25-29.

The Jews were wrong in their expectation. They missed it. They had the same faulty hyper-literal expectation of an earthly ethnic territorial political system that Premils have today. Premils are simply repeating the error of history. They rejected Christ's spiritual kingdom and it was redirected to the Gentiles. Millions of Gentiles have now entered that kingdom by faith.

The kingdom Jesus spoke of was spiritual and heavenly. This did not fit in with their carnal expectation. Sadly, Premils still seek after such a faulty expectation in order to justify their flawed future hope. What is more, the natural, physical, earthly ceremonial aspects of the old covenant are obliterated in the New Testament by the new covenant reality. This was presented by the legalistic religious Jewish leaders as evidence of Christ phony credentials.

I believe Premils make the exact same mistake that the Pharisees did with their belief of an earthly political kingdom and a physical material throne of David. Christ is not coming to reign for a thousand yrs over a subjugated bunch of rebels, He is Coming to destroy the wicked.

The reality is, one needs eyes to see in order to grasp the spiritual, heavenly and eternal nature of the kingdom. Jesus told us that. Unfortunately, the hyper-literalist Judaizing Pharisees did not see this with their misguided hyper-literal racist physical carnal earthly kingdom. Premil makes the same mistake. The Pharisaic expectation was completely different from God’s plan. Christ brought a spiritual heavenly kingdom to this earth not a physical natural kingdom as some imagined from their understanding of Old Testament readings.

Premil does not take text, context, and co-text into consideration. They force their hyper-literal pretext into all Scripture. The Pharisees did the same and look how that worked out for them. They misunderstood, misapplied and misinterpreted the First Advent, the kingdom and kingship of Christ.

Premil explains away clear and repeated NT Scripture with their opinion of typical and obscure OT Scripture.

Acts 1:6-7 shows the KoH to be real but not in the church age. When? During the 1000 years and the purpose is to put down all sin and rebellion,

I used to use this passage as a proof-text for Premillennialism, when I held to that school of thought. However, I believe a closer examination of the narrative shows a different story to that argued by that belief. Many Premillennialists advance the disciples question to Christ in Acts 1:6 relating to the restoration of the kingdom to Israel, as evidence that Christ is going to set up a future physical temporal kingdom on this earth for 1000 years after His Second Coming. I believe such an interpretation emanates more from a partial preconceived idea of the word “kingdom” rather than any direct or indirect allusion to, or a clear description of, a post-Second Coming earthly physical millennial kingdom in this passage.

The only problem is: there is no mention here of a future thousand years. Premils must force that into the sacred text. They do that a lot!!!

Such an interpretation is definitely not in keeping with the context of the narrative or the actual subject matter under discussion relating to the spiritual empowerment of the Church at Pentecost in order to effectively take the Gospel to the nations. Neither is it consistent with our Lord’s clear and continuous teaching on the kingdom as a spiritual entity, which was ushered in with the commencement of His earthly ministry.

1 Corinthians 15:24-25.

This is a typical Jack Van Impe tactic. Make a false statement and then throw a load of scriptural reference along with it (without actually quoting them) in the hope that the rest of us are naïve enough to not check it out and just swallowed it up as fact. That is not the way it works. That is misleading. That may have worked 30 years ago, but people can think for themselves today. Those who don't just follow the party line without question.

The fact is there is nothing in the text that even mentions a future millennial kingdom here. Not only that, but the text actually proves Amillennialism.

Paul confirms the finality of the return of Jesus, in 1 Corinthians 15:22-24, stating, “as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his Coming (parousia). Then cometh the end (or télos), when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

The “coming” of the Lord, described in this reading, is here carefully located at “the end.” In fact, the whole tenure of the passage is distinctly pointing to a climactic time in history when God separates righteousness and wickedness forever. It is the occasion approaching when Christ finally presents “up the kingdom to God” and will have, as He promised, “put down all rule and all authority and power.” Simultaneously, the glorification of the kingdom of God sees the destruction of the kingdom of darkness. It is the end-game for Satan and the conclusion of his evil efforts to obstruct the plan of God for mankind. Wickedness has finally and eternally been abolished.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 tells us that “all rule and all authority and power” are finally “put down” or katargeésee or abolished at the “Coming” or parousia of the Lord, which is, as we have established, confirmed in the next sentence as “the end.” The kingdom of God is finally and eternally presented “up,” whereas the kingdom of darkness is finally and eternally “put down.” It is this all-consummating last day that ushers in the end (or completion) of all things.

Israel has to be purified Daniel 9:24 not the church and that is the reason for Jacob’s trouble in the last 3.5 years of the tribulation Jeremiah 30:7-10; Daniel 12:2; Matthew 24:21.

Jacob’s trouble

It is so hard engaging with this position is because you have to deprogram them from all the false teaching that they have been taught over the years. Dispensationalists boast often about the need for a literalist approach to Scripture. But when their theology is tested by the Word of God it is seen to fall short. When we analyze their boast, we find truth after truth and passage after passage that they butcher in order to facility their doctrine. Not only do they not take a literal approach but they also repeatedly fail to acknowledge context or setting. The subject of Jacob’s trouble is a case-in-point.

Pretribbers rip Jacob's troubles from its historic old covenant setting in the book of Jeremiah, and its clear description of the Babylonian exile, and translate it to some imaginary seven-year period at the end, to support their end-time beliefs.

A careful and unbiased analyze of the biblical and contextual evidence relating to the book of Jeremiah will prove that Jacob’s trouble was an historic occurrence that has been long fulfilled in the Babylonian captivity. Also, it has absolutely nothing to do with the end of time. It rather describes a time when Jeremiah lived and when he was rebuking the rebellion of Israel that caused him to be driven from their homeland.

Daniel's 70 weeks

Daniel's 70 weeks has been long-fulfilled.

Daniel 9:24 predicts, “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to (1) finish the transgression, and to (2) make an end of sins, and to (3) make reconciliation for iniquity, and to (4) bring in everlasting righteousness, and to (5) seal up the vision and prophecy, and to (6) anoint the most Holy” (Daniel 9:24).

It is these six things alone that are clearly and deliberately predicted (in Daniel 9) to occur within the 70 weeks – thus “seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to…” Therefore, for one to apply this plain Messianic prophecy to anti-Christ (as Pretribbers do) could justifiably warrant the unenviable charge of peddling with full-blown apostasy. After all, applying something to anti-Christ, which evidently relates alone to the Savior, is gross error.

All these predictions were perfectly fulfilled in the person of Christ and in His wonderful earthly ministry. He spent 3 ½ years fulfilling every expectation that the Father demanded, from His arrival on the public scene (and His heavenly vindication from the Father after He was baptised) to His atoning death and His victorious resurrection for the grave. All of these predictions have been met in one man – the man Christ Jesus.

How could anti-Christ or any other mere mortal fulfil all or even one of these awesome Divine demands, such an idea is total blasphemy.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Revelation 7, the 144,00 is Jewish, Revelation is in conjunction with Israel and the physical temple where they have sacrifices.

Where in the NT under the new covenant does it teach the rebuilding of the physical temple and the return of blood sacrifices? Nowhere! This is a Premil fabrication unknown to the NT and Rev 20.

The church age saints have nothing to do with a physical temple. You have to spiritualize the physical temple, which you do.

Again, where in the Bible speaks of "the church age" never mind "the church age saints"? Nowhere. The Church or ekklesia has been around since the beginning. Dispensationalists typically define the New Testament Church as a distinctive body which was birthed on the day of Pentecost. They view it as a completely separate entity to God’s people in the Old Testament.

What they miss is that the Church is not a New Testament innovation introduced by Christ but an ongoing spiritual organism that has contained the elect of God from the very beginning.

Whilst the Church has taken on a different form under the new covenant, in the same way as the development/change occurs between the caterpillar and the butterfly, the elect in the Old Testament and the elect in the New Testament are part of the same religious body.

The word “Church” is an imperfect translation of the Greek word ekklesia meaning ‘a called out assembly’. The word is found 116 times in the Greek New Testament, it is translated ‘church’ or ‘churches’ in every instant apart from 3 references where it is translated ‘assembly’.

Theologian John J Parsons who majors in Hebrew research, explains: “It appears to be a major fault of various English translations of the Christian Bible that the word ‘Church’ was translated for the Greek word ekklesia in the New Testament, since this suggests an anti-Jewish bias in their work by implying that there is a radical discontinuity between ‘Israel’ and the the ekklesia of Jesus (i.e., the ‘Church’). In other words, if the same Greek word (ekklesia) is used in both the LXX and the NT, then why was a new word coined for its usage in the English translation of the New Testament? Why not translate the word as it was used in the LXX, or better still, as it was used in the OT Scriptures?”

He continues: “In the New Testament sense, the word ekklesia refers to the group of ‘called out’ people (from every tribe and tongue) in covenant with God by means of their trust in Jesus Christ. In particular, this is composed of only those people who confess their faith that Jesus (Yeshua) is none other than Adonai come in the flesh.”

Revelation 12, the sun clothed woman and the remnant is Jewish.
The church age saints are never said to flee into a wilderness and they never have a remnant.
The 7 heads and 10 crowns are all in conjunction with the nations that oppressed Israel in the past and that will be in the future.

The story of Revelation 12, like the rest of Revelation, and the rest of Scripture, is the story of God’s sovereign power, protection and prosperity upon His people in the face of Satan and his kingdom’s persecution and wrath.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

The imagery seems to be taken from Joseph stream in Genesis 37:9–10:

Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

Gen 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

Who is she?

I believe this woman refers to God’s covenant people. The woman is the elect Church from the beginning, embracing believing Israel and the mainly Gentile NT congregation. Anyway, Gods people are often described in Revelation (and Scripture) as a woman. The 12 stars on her crown represent divine authority. Verse 17 confirms that we are looking at the elect of God. Her children are all those that “keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”

Armageddon will be in the land of Israel cause all the armies of the nations will be gathered together against them Revelation 16 etc.

3. The governments of this world and the hearts of sinful men are ruled by Satan.
Christians are being trained for the kingdom right now 2 Timothy 2:12.

4. The Kingdom of Heaven is the 1000 years when Christ will put down all sin and rebellion.
The son will give the KoH back to the Father so he can be All in All.
This earth is out of harmony with the universe and when God becomes all in all
it will the KoG physical that is in complete harmony. Jerry kelso

Armageddon like when of the OT names that are found in Revelation is used symbolically to describe NT spiritual truth and realities. There is an old profound adage that says, ‘the future is in the past, and the past is in the future’. Thus implying, if you want to discover or unveil the actual things that are still to come then look to the past for assistance. This is particularly relevant with biblical teaching. Christian authority on Judeo/Christian Customs and historic developments, and current lecturer at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, Dr. James Fleming explains, “If one is reflective, they can see, understand and learn from the past … One of the Hebrew words for the future is a very strange word “aharat,” it means the backside of history or the backside of God. One of the words for the future is “behind.” He also says, “Confidence is gained for what cannot be seen from what has happened before. You understand what God is like from what God has done.”

This is exactly the premise upon which John builds his symbolic prophecy. John employs this idea in profound style in the whole book of Revelation, by lending many Old Testament sayings, locations, events and images to impress deep spiritual truth about the future. In doing so he is simply advancing the past and that which has happened in the past to explain the future. Therefore, when John unveils the prophecy of Revelation he does so in symbolic form by advancing many familiar Old Testament sayings, locations, events and images to, in some way, impress how the future will unfold. We can be confident in what God has done in the past and take comfort that he will as an unchanged God perform the same in the future.

Ecclesiastes1: 9-10 significantly states, “The thing that hath been (the past), it is that which shall be (the future); and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.”

Revelation employs both unique and familiar symbols, biblical numbers and figurative language to describe the great eternal conflict between good and evil, and frequently advances literal Old Testament symbols, events or locations to impress New Testament truth or ideas on the reader. John repeatedly employs prominent Old Testament imagery to impress glorious spiritual New Testament truths. It is estimated that Revelation contains over 500 references to Old Testament events and stories, yet NOT one single direct quote.

Dr. James Fleming further explains: “Ezekiel, Daniel and Zechariah are Old Testament apocalyptic books that use symbolic language for “that day.” These three books influenced the Apocalypse … Of the four hundred and some verses in the book of Revelation, over two hundred are paraphrases of Old Testament verses.”

Whilst the Old Testament mentions end-times and the second coming; it is often written in veiled and incomplete detail, mixed and interspersed with ancient events and other historical detail. It is also presented in types and shadows.

2 Timothy 2:12 makes no mention of some supposed future millennium.

 

[BABerean2]

baberean2,

1. I rejoice to see him and live with him in Heaven during the tribulation.
Jesus said in John 14 he went to prepare a place for us, and if he went he would come again and receive us unto hisself that where he is there we would be also.
Same sentiment as 1Thessalonians 4:17; and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
He went to Heaven to prepare us so much more it could not be on earth.
It could not be the Holy City at the Second Coming because it will not come down until after the New Heaven and the New Earth.
The Second Coming is when we come out of Heaven to do battle on earth.
Once again you have wrongly divided the word.

2. Do you not believe in the Believers Works Judgement? 1Corinthians 3:11-15
What if your works were all wood, hay and stubble and you didn’t have a crown to cast down for your good works of being a bad steward, you might find yourself embarrassed.

3. Either way You are not rightly dividing the word like usual. Jerry kelso

Your circular reasoning about New Jerusalem is what we expect from those promoting the Pretrib doctrine.
It is the only way to make the doctrine work.

Your attempts to use "rewards" as a weapon to promote your doctrine is a new low point in our discussion.
Surely, you can do better.

.

 

[sovereigngrace]

baberean2,

1. I rejoice to see him and live with him in Heaven during the tribulation.
Jesus said in John 14 he went to prepare a place for us, and if he went he would come again and receive us unto hisself that where he is there we would be also.
Same sentiment as 1Thessalonians 4:17; and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
He went to Heaven to prepare us so much more it could not be on earth.
It could not be the Holy City at the Second Coming because it will not come down until after the New Heaven and the New Earth.
The Second Coming is when we come out of Heaven to do battle on earth.
Once again you have wrongly divided the word.

2. Do you not believe in the Believers Works Judgement? 1Corinthians 3:11-15
What if your works were all wood, hay and stubble and you didn’t have a crown to cast down for your good works of being a bad steward, you might find yourself embarrassed.

3. Either way You are not rightly dividing the word like usual. Jerry kelso

I totally disagree! During our Lord’s earthly ministry He made a very significant statement about the heavenly abode, which many modern-day eschatology students tend to overlook. Jesus said, in John 14:1-3, “Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”

Something we should establish here due to the array of false teaching floating around on the subject: whilst this eternal abode Christ is currently preparing for His people is now in heaven there is no proof in this text that this city will remain in heaven after His Coming. Jesus simply promises: “I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”

Where Christ is at His appearing is where the heavenly city with its many mansions will be. This closely connects Christ to the holy city. One could take from this statement that the New Jerusalem will appear with Christ. It would be wise to see whether there is other Scripture to support or negate such a hypothesis.

Christ here directly addresses the undoubted concern of His disciples just prior to His heavenly removal. He clearly intended to convey a real sense of hope and comfort to His troubled disciples, in this reading, who were evidently concerned at the thought of the His impending departure. In doing so, He advanced some precious Divine truths, which are deserving of our careful consideration and note, none more so than the fact that He was assuredly returning for His saints. He plainly and succinctly declares, “if I go…I will come again.” This is the great assurance for every believer, that, yet, for a short season he is faced with earthly trials, tribulations and separation, it is but nothing in comparison to that place and condition which awaits God’s heavenly people.

The next thing of note we see is that Christ was, shortly after this incident, going to His “Father’s house” – heaven – to “prepare a place” for His people. That “place,” which was undoubtedly heavenly, and its final manifestation, is clearly identified here with the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The word rendered “prepare” here, in the King James Version, is the Greek word hetoimasoo which simply means ‘to make ready’. Therefore, Christ is presently preparing, or making ready, a heavenly abode for the redeemed of God, which they will inhabit at His glorious final all-consummating Second Coming.

The bride is represented as the holy city. Revelation 21:9-10 confirms: "And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying,Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God."

That “prepared” city is repeatedly described in Scripture as the New Jerusalem – the heavenly city. In a parallel passage in Revelation 3:11-12, Christ promises His people, while also speaking of His glorious all-consummating Second Advent, “Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

This Second Coming passage confirms our notion. The heavenly city comes down from heaven with Christ when He returns.

This reading informs us that this “place,” which Christ spoke of has a name; being described as the New Jerusalem and that it “cometh down out of heaven” at His appearing. This truth should help those who struggle with the meaning and timing of Revelation 20, because Revelation 21:1-2 (which all commentators agree) appears immediately after the happenings of Revelation 20. Therefore, it places its appearing, which we have already established coincides with the second coming of the Lord, at the end of the millennium thus revealing a postmillennial appearing of Christ. Christ connects the appearance of the New Jerusalem at His Coming, declaring, “Behold, I come quickly.” It is at this all-consummating event that the New Jerusalem comes “down out of heaven from my God.”

Note that the exact detail described as occurring at the second coming – namely:

The “new Jerusalem” appears.
The “new Jerusalem … cometh down”
The “new Jerusalem … cometh down out of heaven.”
The “new Jerusalem … cometh down out of heaven … from God.”

Further evidence that the prepared New Jerusalem is coming down to the new earth is found in Revelation 21:1-4. It declares, “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.”

The New Jerusalem does not stay in heaven. At the end of the millennium it descends to the new earth. We should not overlook: the detail described elsewhere in Scripture as occurring at the second coming of the Lord carefully matches that which takes place at the end of the millennium (definitely not the beginning). It is the “holy city, new Jerusalem” that is figuratively “prepared as a bride adorned for her husband” and which corresponds with the Lord’s teaching in John 14. This city is the only “prepared place” alluded to in the whole of the New Testament. This city, which appears with Christ at His Coming, is undoubtedly a heavenly “place” and is the single focus of every true saint of God – the place of eternal peace and rest from sin, the effects of sin (including death), and all sinners forever.

Knitting all these passages together reinforces the Amillennial and Postmillennial positions that Revelation 20 is speaking about a current period of time. It is clear Premillennialism has a major problem here. First, John 14:1-3 ties Christ to the heavenly city and presents that city, which is being prepared, as the eternal hope of the saints. If that city does not appear until after the millennium as a Premillennial reading of Revelation 20 would require then the saints will not experience that prepared city for over 1,000 years.

 

[grafted branch]

Those passages are not in context.
Christ sits in the right hand in the Father but he is ever interceding at the mercy seat Hebrews 8:1-6.

OK, let’s assume you are correct and I took those passages out of context. That would mean Christ sitting at the right hand of God should not be associated with Him reigning.

Christ being seated.

Christ must remain seated until his enemies are made his footstool (Hebrews 10:12-13); when he is seen (at his second coming) on the white horse in Revelation 19, he is no longer at the right hand of God (he is on the white horse) and therefore his enemies have been made his footstool at that time.

Christ reigning.

From Revelation 20:6 we know that Christ reigns in the millennium, and from 1 Corinthians 15:25 he must reign until his enemies are put under his feet.

So the question now becomes did Christ somehow let his enemies get out from under his feet at his second coming? And he then has to reign 1,000 years before he gets them back under his feet?

 

[Timtofly]

Christ to the heavenly city and presents that city, which is being prepared, as the eternal hope of the saints. If that city does not appear until after the millennium as a Premillennial reading of Revelation 20 would require then the saints will not experience that prepared city for over 1,000 years.

Yet those in the first century have waited 1990 years. Why is another 1000 years such a big deal to some believers? They demand their own rights and reject that they have to wait like all the rest of NT saints.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Yet those in the first century have waited 1990 years. Why is another 1000 years such a big deal to some believers? They demand their own rights and reject that they have to wait like all the rest of NT saints.

... because repeated climactic Scripture shows that sin and sinners, death and decay, come to an end when Jesus comes. He introduces a perfect arrangement where the bondage of corruption is eternally removed.

 

[Timtofly]

... because repeated climactic Scripture shows that sin and sinner, death and decay, come to an end when Jesus comes. He introduces a perfect arrangement where the bondage of corruption is eternally removed.

So?
God cannot have an incorruptible 1000 years?
You talk like Revelation 20 is 1000 years prior to the new heavens and earth, then you turn around and say it cannot be. John says it is. God showed this time to John.

 

[jerry kelso]

OK, let’s assume you are correct and I took those passages out of context. That would mean Christ sitting at the right hand of God should not be associated with Him reigning.

Christ being seated.

Christ must remain seated until his enemies are made his footstool (Hebrews 10:12-13); when he is seen (at his second coming) on the white horse in Revelation 19, he is no longer at the right hand of God (he is on the white horse) and therefore his enemies have been made his footstool at that time.

Christ reigning.

From Revelation 20:6 we know that Christ reigns in the millennium, and from 1 Corinthians 15:25 he must reign until his enemies are put under his feet.

So the question now becomes did Christ somehow let his enemies get out from under his feet at his second coming? And he then has to reign 1,000 years before he gets them back under his feet?

graftedbranch,

1. I understand your position and I understand why you follow that line of thinking.
It works in your hermeneutics and your position.
I have different hermeneutics and I don’t agree with the millennial kingdom that you purport is correct.

2. To answer your first question about the association of reigning spiritually.
God reigns in our hearts spiritually.
He has conquered the keys to death, Hell and the grave Revelation 2: and has all authority and power in Heaven and earth Matthew 28:19.
This means he has power to subdue the works of the devil through the church primarily and he really doesn’t work without the church moving in faith, for we are training to rule and reign in the future KoH 2 Timothy 2:12.

3. The Greek word for kingdom is Basileia meaning a realm, or a region governed by a king.
The word Heaven in passage like Matthew 3:2; 4:17; 5:3 etc. is in the plural and means the kingdom from the heavens.
It’s a dispensational term referring to the Messiah’s kingdom on Earth. It is not from or out of this world.
John 18:36; the sovereignty comes from Heaven because the King is from there.
There is no literal reign right now on earth.
It is the sphere of profession in the world of Christendom.
It now takes in good and bad or anyone who professes to be a future kingdom child of God Matthew 13.
In the next dispensation , the Millennium will cease to be the sphere of profession and becomes the real literal Kingdom of the son of man who was rejected at the beginning of this age.
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 shows that the kingdom will take in good and bad and Christ will rule with a rod of iron Psalm 2:9; Revelation 2:26-27 to put all enemies under his feet whether they profess to be real sons of God or not.
The KoH was foretold by the prophets for the purpose of re-establishing the Kingdom of God over this rebellious part of the universe so that God may be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28. Dake’s God’s Plan For Man lesson 31; The KoH and the KoG and the parables pg. 358-359.

a) The Kingdom of Heaven was a physical Kingdom Matthew 4:17 which is tied to the Davidic Covenant of the throne which is the eternal reign on earth to Israel 1 Chronicles 28:1-7; 2 Samuel 7:13-16; They have to all be saved in order to fulfill the Covenant.
They had to believe in the spiritual aspect of the Kingdom of God for salvation before the cross Matthew 6:33; Luke 17:20-21.

b) The KoH reign is in abeyance now but will be restored Acts 1:6-7 when Jesus comes back and takes the kingdoms of this world back Revelation 11:15.
He will then set up the KoH reign where Israel will inherit the land promised them Genesis 15:18-21 and the throne in Israel at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:6-7; Ezekiel 37:16-28.

4. The New Heaven and the New Earth is never called the KoH and it will never be restored as the KoH Acts 1:6-7 for it will be brand new.
It will be the KoG all in all for it will be perfect and back in harmony with the whole universal KoG. Jerry Kelso

 

[grafted branch]

1. I understand your position and I understand why you follow that line of thinking.
It works in your hermeneutics and your position.
I have different hermeneutics and I don’t agree with the millennial kingdom that you purport is correct.

Ok, so I would like to examine your hermeneutics.

I think we can both agree that Christ is currently sitting at the right hand of God (regardless of it being spiritual or literal), and he must remain in this position (either literally or spiritually) until his enemies are made his footstool.

Since your hermeneutics has Christ literally reigning in a future millennium, His current seated position must remain from now until then end of the millennium. If He was no longer seated before the end of the millennium then his enemies would have been made his footstool and you have the problem I asked you about in my previous post (did Christ somehow let his enemies get out from under his feet).

So if Christ is seated at the right hand of God literally then his second coming is a problem for premils. If Christ sitting at the right hand of God is spiritual then what ever you think this means, it must currently be happening and remain throughout the next “dispensation” (I am not a dispensationalist) or millennium.

There is no literal reign right now on earth.
It is the sphere of profession in the world of Christendom.
It now takes in good and bad or anyone who professes to be a future kingdom child of God Matthew 13.

In the next dispensation , the Millennium will cease to be the sphere of profession and becomes the real literal Kingdom of the son of man who was rejected at the beginning of this age.

I not sure I completely understand what you’re saying here, can you give me an explanation of what “sitting at the right hand of God” is?

 

[sovereigngrace]

So?
God cannot have an incorruptible 1000 years?
You talk like Revelation 20 is 1000 years prior to the new heavens and earth, then you turn around and say it cannot be. John says it is. God showed this time to John.

Rev 20 nowhere describes the thousand years as incorruptible. It only exists in your head.

 

[sovereigngrace]

graftedbranch,

1. I understand your position and I understand why you follow that line of thinking.
It works in your hermeneutics and your position.
I have different hermeneutics and I don’t agree with the millennial kingdom that you purport is correct.

2. To answer your first question about the association of reigning spiritually.
God reigns in our hearts spiritually.
He has conquered the keys to death, Hell and the grave Revelation 2: and has all authority and power in Heaven and earth Matthew 28:19.
This means he has power to subdue the works of the devil through the church primarily and he really doesn’t work without the church moving in faith, for we are training to rule and reign in the future KoH 2 Timothy 2:12.

3. The Greek word for kingdom is Basileia meaning a realm, or a region governed by a king.
The word Heaven in passage like Matthew 3:2; 4:17; 5:3 etc. is in the plural and means the kingdom from the heavens.
It’s a dispensational term referring to the Messiah’s kingdom on Earth. It is not from or out of this world.
John 18:36; the sovereignty comes from Heaven because the King is from there.
There is no literal reign right now on earth.
It is the sphere of profession in the world of Christendom.
It now takes in good and bad or anyone who professes to be a future kingdom child of God Matthew 13.
In the next dispensation , the Millennium will cease to be the sphere of profession and becomes the real literal Kingdom of the son of man who was rejected at the beginning of this age.
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 shows that the kingdom will take in good and bad and Christ will rule with a rod of iron Psalm 2:9; Revelation 2:26-27 to put all enemies under his feet whether they profess to be real sons of God or not.
The KoH was foretold by the prophets for the purpose of re-establishing the Kingdom of God over this rebellious part of the universe so that God may be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28. Dake’s God’s Plan For Man lesson 31; The KoH and the KoG and the parables pg. 358-359.

a) The Kingdom of Heaven was a physical Kingdom Matthew 4:17 which is tied to the Davidic Covenant of the throne which is the eternal reign on earth to Israel 1 Chronicles 28:1-7; 2 Samuel 7:13-16; They have to all be saved in order to fulfill the Covenant.
They had to believe in the spiritual aspect of the Kingdom of God for salvation before the cross Matthew 6:33; Luke 17:20-21.

b) The KoH reign is in abeyance now but will be restored Acts 1:6-7 when Jesus comes back and takes the kingdoms of this world back Revelation 11:15.
He will then set up the KoH reign where Israel will inherit the land promised them Genesis 15:18-21 and the throne in Israel at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:6-7; Ezekiel 37:16-28.

4. The New Heaven and the New Earth is never called the KoH and it will never be restored as the KoH Acts 1:6-7 for it will be brand new.
It will be the KoG all in all for it will be perfect and back in harmony with the whole universal KoG. Jerry Kelso

Really? So where exactly in Revelation 20 is the Millennium labelled the kingdom of heaven? Nowhere. Your teachers have taught you wrong.

 

[jerry kelso]

Really? So where e exactly in Revelation 20 is the Millennium Lled the kingdom of heaven? Nowhere. Your teachers have taught you wrong.

sovereigngrace,

1. I didn’t say it was and why do think it has to be in there?
All Jews understand the KoH and the KoG message. It was only preached to the Jewish nation Matthew 10:6-7.

2. The scriptures show that they have an earthly calling forever. I gave you the scriptures and you won’t believe it.
The scriptures say that Christ didn’t deny the KoH reign but it wasn’t for the disciples to know the times and seasons but the Father knew Acts 1:6-7.
This is the last time it is mentioned and the only time in the New Testament.
Amills basically believe Armageddon goes into the New Heaven and the New Earth.
Acts 3:19 talks about the restitution of all things which is the same as the restoration of the Kingdom of Heaven in Acts 1:6-7.
The New Heaven and the New Earth are brand new so they won’t be restored.

3. The main thing is if you don’t understand the Jewish nation’s calling that is different from the churches calling in the kingdom then you don’t understand the big picture of God’s plan and why he is doing it that way.
So what do you believe about Israel and the future kingdom? Jerry Kelso

 

[sovereigngrace]

sovereigngrace,

I see you have totally sidestepped my detailed rebuttals to you.

1. I didn’t say it was and why do think it has to be in there?
All Jews understand the KoH and the KoG message. It was only preached to the Jewish nation Matthew 10:6-7.

Says who? Your Dispy teachers. There is only one kingdom and it is spiritual, heavenly and eternal. The one you, your Dispy teachers and the Pharisees anticipate was faulty and unscriptural. It has no place under the new covenant. It has no mention in the NT. It must be forced into it. It is fictional.

2. The scriptures show that they have an earthly calling forever. I gave you the scriptures and you won’t believe it.

Earthly people are of their father the devil and go to hell. Heavenly people are born off God and go to heaven.

The scriptures say that Christ didn’t deny the KoH reign but it wasn’t for the disciples to know the times and seasons but the Father knew Acts 1:6-7.

I already refuted this and you already avoided this. That is because you are twisting what the text says.

This is the last time it is mentioned and the only time in the New Testament.

The context is speaking about a spiritual kingdom.

Amills basically believe Armageddon goes into the New Heaven and the New Earth.

Not true. You clearly do not know what they teach. The opposite is the truth. They believe in a perfect and eternal kingdom being introduced free of the bondage of corruption, sin and sinner, death and decay.

Acts 3:19 talks about the restitution of all things which is the same as the restoration of the Kingdom of Heaven in Acts 1:6-7.
The New Heaven and the New Earth are brand new so they won’t be restored.

You do not even get what that statement means. This current corrupt arrangement has to go. It needs changed. That occurs at the one and only coming of Christ when He comes to remove every last vestige of the fall and introduce eternal justice. Premil is a total contradiction of Scripture.

3. The main thing is if you don’t understand the Jewish nation’s calling that is different from the churches calling in the kingdom then you don’t understand the big picture of God’s plan and why he is doing it that way.

It is not the Jewish nation that matters. It is all about sinners in all nations under the new covenant. There is neither Jew nor Gentile today. There is no favoritism when it comes to color and races today. The old covenant is gone forever.

Current ethnic Israel is apostate and under the wrath of God. Like every other antichrist nation, they are of their father the devil.

So what do you believe about Israel and the future kingdom? Jerry Kelso

If they bow the knee to Christ and get born again they enter the global ekklesia and they will be saved.

 

[Timtofly]

Rev 20 nowhere describes the thousand years as incorruptible. It only exists in your head.

So God raises dead people to be reprobate sinners? What kind of resurrection do you teach? Paul says that an incorruptible body is the resurrection God gives to those who are His. Do you not accept a resurrection in Revelation 20 at all? John says they will be resurrected in a body that the second death has no power over. Revelation 20:6

6 Blessed and holy is anyone who has a part in the first resurrection; over him the second death has no power. On the contrary, they will be cohanim of God and of the Messiah, and they will rule with him for the thousand years.

A body that reigns for 1000 years that even the second death has no power over is an incorruptible body. They were resurrected, they already faced the first death. The sin nature body of flesh and blood, dead and gone. Raised in an incorruptible body, that will not be capable of the second death. It will be impossible for them to rebel or turn their souls against God. They will have no choice to do anything that brings sin back. There is no tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That tree is no longer around. This is the end of Adam's 6000 years of punishment. I am confused why some want to dredge up the sinful past, when God has declared all finished and completed.

 

[sovereigngrace]

So God raises dead people to be reprobate sinners? What kind of resurrection do you teach? Paul says that an incorruptible body is the resurrection God gives to those who are His. Do you not accept a resurrection in Revelation 20 at all? John says they will be resurrected in a body that the second death has no power over. Revelation 20:6

6 Blessed and holy is anyone who has a part in the first resurrection; over him the second death has no power. On the contrary, they will be cohanim of God and of the Messiah, and they will rule with him for the thousand years.

A body that reigns for 1000 years that even the second death has no power over is an incorruptible body. They were resurrected, they already faced the first death. The sin nature body of flesh and blood, dead and gone. Raised in an incorruptible body, that will not be capable of the second death. It will be impossible for them to rebel or turn their souls against God. They will have no choice to do anything that brings sin back. There is no tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That tree is no longer around. This is the end of Adam's 6000 years of punishment. I am confused why some want to dredge up the sinful past, when God has declared all finished and completed.

There is one literal first resurrection where Christ defeated the grave. The Bible makes it clear that Christ is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5).

John states Revelation 20:6, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Here, the first resurrection is outlined as the means by which men gain victory over the second death and enter into the great company that reign in Christ – both dead and alive; the redeemed reign in life and in death. In life, they are spiritually positioned in the heavenly Jerusalem, in death, they enter into the immediate presence of God and reign through Him that sits upon the throne.

This corresponds to what Jesus taught in John 11:25, saying, “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."

This is speaking of the resurrection life that can be enjoyed in this life through faith.

Rev 20 is talking about the salvation that results from being "in Christ." It is our participation in the resurrection life, whether in life or death. Those in view are souls who have passed on "in Christ," but have defeated death and Hades because of the first resurrection of Christ. They now reign in Christ.

This is talking about the first resurrection: Christ's. Without the first resurrection there would be no salvation. Acts 17:30-31 says, “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”

1 Peter 3:21 witnesses: “baptism (talking about being baptized into Christ’s death upon salvation) doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

We were legally represented “in Christ” in His life, death and resurrection. It was a substitutionary mission Christ was on. Just like we were legally represented “in Adam” when he fell, we were justified in the perfect life that Christ lived, the vicarious sacrifice He made and the triumphant resurrection He secured. The Lord’s resurrection spelt defeat for all unrighteousness. Every enemy of God was defeated in the glorious resurrection from the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:14 & 17 makes clear: “if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain ... if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.”

Why? Christ’s resurrection secured our salvation. In fact, there is no eternal life apart from resurrection. If Christ had simply died and remained in the grave then there would be no victory over sin, death and the grave. Christ took upon Himself our sin (being made sin for us). He was punished for our sin. He conquered our sin by paying the full penalty for it on Calvary’s tree. Christ then defeating sin, death and the grave through His victorious resurrection from the dead.