Parenting fail?

[motherprayer]

Don't put words in my mouth.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but from your tone, the logical conclusion is that you believe it is her fault she got murdered, because she had a relationship with this man.

 

[Lethe]

She was clearly asking for it. - Most of society in socially conservative cultures, Christian or otherwise

This is where I completely lose any sympathy for social conservatives: they take a failure to assess danger conditioned on the outcome that yes, obviously it was a failure in this case, then blame the victim.

Because yeah, she murdered herself, clearly that was her intention.

I'm not saying her judgment was great. Just remember: judgments are not made in retrospect!

Decisions are made with the information we have at the time we make them. Remember: people knew this Castro guy for 30-40-50 years and said nothing was wrong with the guy. Are they to BLAME?

 

[keith99]

She was clearly asking for it. - Most of society in socially conservative cultures, Christian or otherwise

This is where I completely lose any sympathy for social conservatives: they take a failure to assess danger conditioned on the outcome that yes, obviously it was a failure in this case, then blame the victim.

Because yeah, she murdered herself, clearly that was her intention.

I'm not saying her judgment was great. Just remember: judgments are not made in retrospect!

Decisions are made with the information we have at the time we make them. Remember: people knew this Castro guy for 30-40-50 years and said nothing was wrong with the guy. Are they to BLAME?

There is something I say reasonably often, it is something I mean and it means I may someday have to take action.

No Kitty Genoveses on my street.

That means I will not permit a woman to be murdered on my street and do nothing.

If something does happen and I get killed trying to prevent a murder was I 'asking for it'?

This is NOT directed at the poster I am responding to. It is directed to those who seem to blame the victim here.

 

[Gadarene]

Admirable, Keith. I wish I could be as confident about doing the same. (Although I'd extend it to a defence of someone of any gender, personally )

 

[FreeSpirit74]

So what do you do when someone rings the doorbell? Run and hide? Or perhaps yell 'Go Away' through the keyhole?

I sure as heck don't open my door to people I don't know. People who know me well enough to know where I live know better than to just show up without calling first. I live on the 2nd floor of a building with 4 apartment on the 2nd and 3rd floors, and in NYS it is required that the "common entrance" to a multi-dwelling building (more than just a 2-family house) have a self-locking door, so I can just open my window (or the window in the hallway leading to the 3rd floor) and see who it is. Otherwise, I just ignore it.

And do you keep the doors locked and the windows closed when it has been 100 degrees all day and has now cooled down and use the air conditioner to continue to cool off the house?

Like I said, I live in an apartment on the 2nd floor of a 2-lot building (I live in the north half), so my door opens onto a hallway at the top of a flight of stairs. I only have two windows that open to the outside (the ones in the back of my apartment open onto a private enclosed back porch), and those are right above my landlord's office (he is a race director for USA Tack & Field - Adirondack Division).

Actually, I am running a rather sizable credit with the power company that supplies my electric and gas (Yea Budget Plan!), so I can leave the AC on 24/7. Temps. have been down in the 30's at night all this week, so I haven't even put the AC in the window yet.

Next....

 

[Lethe]

I sure as heck don't open my door to people I don't know.

That's a helluva way to go through life. Scared of everything.

It's a wonder we have a country that is wall to wall with lunatics stocking guns.

 

[motherprayer]

Decisions are made with the information we have at the time we make them. Remember: people knew this Castro guy for 30-40-50 years and said nothing was wrong with the guy. Are they to BLAME?

Yea, like when people voted Obama into office because he was supposed to be an advocate for low income people, and then welfare systems started getting cut.

 

[Gadarene]

I suspect there may be a geographical angle on this disagreement, chaps.

I have fewer qualms about opening my front door, but that may have to do with the area I live in. Which I'm not denying is a privilege, but that in itself doesn't necessarily mean one side of this disagreement is being overly-paranoid or incautious.

The point remains that abusers gonna abuse, regardless of the level of precautions you take. And in most cases, precautions are already being taken against rape/abuse. The fact is with the best will in the world, there is no way you can guarantee that this incredibly awful crime won't happen to you.

Lecturing victims of these crimes in hindsight about how they should take more precautions (and chances are high they've already been taking the precautions you think are such a novel idea) while saying nothing about the role of the culprit is just making a crappy situation worse.

It is basically the same as someone saying "should have used abstinence!" upon confrontation of teenage pregnancy stats. You're not really being that helpful, one because you're applying huge doses of hindsight, and two, your suggestion isn't going to go nearly far as you think it might. Frankly, it reeks of trying to come across as trying really hard to be smugly correct than helpful in any practical sense.

Most sex crimes are committed by people known to the victim. Background checks are not perfect, and given how infrequently abusers are caught and the effect such an unusual invasion of privacy will have on your relationship prospects, many people will simply not bother. That does not make it any more their fault.

 

[motherprayer]

Lecturing victims of these crimes in hindsight about how they should take more precautions (and chances are high they've already been taking the precautions you think are such a novel idea) while saying nothing about the role of the culprit is just making a crappy situation worse.

It is basically the same as someone saying "should have used abstinence!" upon confrontation of teenage pregnancy stats. You're not really being that helpful, one because you're applying huge doses of hindsight, and two, your suggestion isn't going to go nearly far as you think it might. Frankly, it reeks of trying to come across as trying really hard to be smugly correct than helpful in any practical sense.

Most sex crimes are committed by people known to the victim. Background checks are not perfect, and given how infrequently abusers are caught and the effect such an unusual invasion of privacy will have on your relationship prospects, many people will simply not bother. That does not make it any more their fault.

All of it, but especially this! Amen!

It's like, my stepson died in his sleep on Christmas night. His mother is eating herself alive because he had a seizure disorder and she feels she should have heard him. She is on the verge of suicide because of this.

But tell me, was she aposta have her 13 year old son sleep in her room? This event was something that not only was completely unexpected, it was unavoidable, and from the autopsy findings, she couldn't have done anything even if she DID hear him.

So we should castigate her? Should we all say it's her fault because she diddn't hear him?

 

[Gadarene]

I don't particularly mind people holding this level of justincase-ery about their own lives, but not when they use it to lecture other people with, particularly struggling victims.

Of course, should such an atrocity even be visited upon them or someone close to them (science forbid, but should it happen), I would hope they still take ownership of their standard and be perfectly fine with being subjected to lectures about how they shoulda/coulda done things better and why were they just so STUPID?!

Because that would really be the crappiest time to figure out how wrong they were.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

That's a helluva way to go through life. Scared of everything.

It's a wonder we have a country that is wall to wall with lunatics stocking guns.

I'm not "scared." FYI, I've lived solo in that same apartment for 12 years come this August.

Let me give you an example of what I mentioned before, 360 degree awareness. Last Thanksgiving I went over to my parents' house for the holiday, and got home around 11:00 or so. I have off-street parking across the street from my building, and I backed in off the street and into my spot the same as I always do. There was a guy walking down the sidewalk near the parking lot. I visually zeroed in on him as I always do to anyone in the vicinity... he turns around and walks up to the fence surrounding the lot. I was standing beside my car as he starts approaching. I get back in my car, and lock the doors. This jerk actually had the nerve to step INSIDE the fence (there is an opening on the side facing the building, in addition to the large opening you drive through). I just sat there, staring him down. If my car wasn't the only one in the lot, I would've started it up and made like I was going to pull out of my spot and run him over, as he was trespassing on private property, and approaching a woman who was by herself. Eventually, he turned and walked down the street, because he probably realized I wasn't going to get out of my car, and I had the means to escape him as long as I stayed in my car.

Imagine that same situation if I had parked my car facing the other way (I ALWAYS park facing out of the lot), and if I had been, say, fiddling with my cell phone instead of observing what was going on around me.

 

[motherprayer]

I'm not "scared." FYI, I've lived solo in that same apartment for 12 years come this August.

Let me give you an example of what I mentioned before, 360 degree awareness. Last Thanksgiving I went over to my parents' house for the holiday, and got home around 11:00 or so. I have off-street parking across the street from my building, and I backed in off the street and into my spot the same as I always do. There was a guy walking down the sidewalk near the parking lot. I visually zeroed in on him as I always do to anyone in the vicinity... he turns around and walks up to the fence surrounding the lot. I was standing beside my car as he starts approaching. I get back in my car, and lock the doors. This jerk actually had the nerve to step INSIDE the fence (there is an opening on the side facing the building, in addition to the large opening you drive through). I just sat there, staring him down. If my car wasn't the only one in the lot, I would've started it up and made like I was going to pull out of my spot and run him over, as he was trespassing on private property, and approaching a woman who was by herself. Eventually, he turned and walked down the street, because he probably realized I wasn't going to get out of my car, and I had the means to escape him as long as I stayed in my car.

Imagine that same situation if I had parked my car facing the other way (I ALWAYS park facing out of the lot), and if I had been, say, fiddling with my cell phone instead of observing what was going on around me.

You didn't call the cops?

 

[Gadarene]

That might involve fiddling with your cellphone.

 

[motherprayer]

That might involve fiddling with your cellphone.

Oh right

 

[Gadarene]

And don't forget to background check the cops.

Because you know, JUST IN CASE!

 

[motherprayer]

I love when people say "It's always the victim's fault, I had this dangerous experience with this dangerous guy, and because of my smart way of handling it, I wasn't hurt by him." But they don't ever do anything to stop that dangerous man from hurting anyone else. Huh.

 

[Gadarene]

I love when people say "It's always the victim's fault, I had this dangerous experience with this dangerous guy, and because of my smart way of handling it, I wasn't hurt by him." But they don't ever do anything to stop that dangerous man from hurting anyone else. Huh.

And apart from anything else, the victim will likely be beating themselves up over what they could have done far more than anyone else could, in much the same way as your relative is.

But I'm sure they really need to hear it from someone else. Again.

It's not that the advice is bad per se, it's the redundancy and impropriety of it, and the lack of compassion it illustrates.

 

[motherprayer]

And apart from anything else, the victim will likely be beating themselves up over what they could have done far more than anyone else could, in much the same way as your relative is.

But I'm sure they really need to hear it from someone else. Again.

It's not that the advice is bad per se, it's the redundancy and impropriety of it, and the lack of compassion it illustrates.

That's right! Like my husband's ex-wife. I pity the poor fool who says "You shoulda heard him." That person will get something that they deserve.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

I love when people say "It's always the victim's fault, I had this dangerous experience with this dangerous guy, and because of my smart way of handling it, I wasn't hurt by him." But they don't ever do anything to stop that dangerous man from hurting anyone else. Huh.

I don't know if this guy was really dangerous or not. And I didn't care what his intent was. He was coming onto private property, approaching a woman he didn't know. That was enough for me. You don't know me, then leave me the *bleep* alone and, if you want things to escalate beyond me just telling you to leave me alone... well, then... Fact of the matter is, I was more dangerous to him than he was to me, because I was in my car, and he was on foot. I think he knew what the next step would be if he tried getting any closer, because I had no compunctions about pinning him to the fence with my front bumper if it came to that.

 

[motherprayer]

I don't know if this guy was really dangerous or not. And I didn't care what his intent was. He was coming onto private property, approaching a woman he didn't know. That was enough for me. You don't know me, then leave me the *bleep* alone and, if you want things to escalate beyond me just telling you to leave me alone... well, then... Fact of the matter is, I was more dangerous to him than he was to me, because I was in my car, and he was on foot. I think he knew what the next step would be if he tried getting any closer, because I had no compunctions about pinning him to the fence with my front bumper if it came to that.

If he HAD hurt someone, then those who saw him and were concerned but did nothing would be as responsible as the woman in the OP.