OSAS does not survive the "sola scriptura" test. Now what?

[Major1]

If I kept practicing evil, you have a point. But your point is a big blank.

James 2:10 ….
"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

 

[Major1]

Well, well, well, again, you have added something which Jesus did not tell us. Where do you find Jesus speaking about substitutionary atonement?

It is indeed sad for me to see someone as intelligent as you be so deceived as to make such a comment.

Who was it that killed the animals in Genesis 4 to cover the sin of Adam and Eve shedding the blood of innocent animals for mans sin??? JESUS!!! That was Substitionary Atonement my
friend.

Who was it that told Cain and Abel the correct sacrifice to bring to the worship service ?JESUS.

Who was it that told Moses about placing the blood of a perfect lamb over the door post thus promoting the 1st "Passover"? JESUS. The shed blood of the lamb saved the 1st born. That was Substitutionary Atonement.

Substitutionary Atonement is as Old as Creation and JESUS is the Creator of all things.

 

[Major1]

I've never said faith wasn't needed. It's faith and works of charity, which are included in Jesus' commandments.

Ephesians 2:8...….
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Nine Scriptures out of more than 100 that say WORKS DO NOT SAVE...…………………….
1.) Rom. 4:6-7 - God imputes "Righteousness without works."
2). Rom. 10:3 - It's a grave mistake for anyone to try to, "Establish their own righteousness."
4. Rom. 5:17 - Heaven deserving righteousness is a "GIFT," not something you earn.
5. Rom. 5:18 - Justification to God is a "FREE GIFT," not something you work toward.
6. Phil. 3:9 - Paul, as ‘good’ as he was, still wouldn't trust his "Own righteousness" to save him.
7. Rom. 3:22 - God's righteousness is credited to "ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE," not all that work.
8. Rom. 8:3-4 - The flesh is too "Weak" to save itself. We need a Saviour. We need Christ.
9. Rom. 4:3 - Abraham's faith, not works, "Was counted unto him for righteousness."
10. Rom. 4:4-5 - Works are "Not reckoned of grace, but of debt."
11. Gal. 3:10 - To earn Heaven you'd have to "Continueth," perfectly, in the whole law.
12. Titus 3:5 - "NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."

Just as a suggestion. Why not spend more time reading the Bible instead of posting mistakes and false doctrines on web sites?

 

[Major1]

Where does the Bible say the standard for salvation is 100% perfection? You keep adding and adding. Israel knew absolutely nothing about Jesus' cross; are you saying none of them were saved? You need to read and believe what the OT says about how they received life.

Was Jesus the Perfect, 100% sinless Son of God?

Did He die for the sins of the world?

John 3:16 ……………..
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

1 Peter 1:3 …………..
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead".

JESUS IS God's standard of perfection and getting to heaven is a problem of ACCESS!

God is PERFECT. He lives in a PERFECT Heaven. His Son is PERFECT.

How then does a sinful man, depraved get into to heaven when he is not perfect in anyway. He has to be CHANGED from corruption to incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:52-54...…….
"In a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality".

That is the moment we will be glorified and made PERFECT just like Jesus and will be allowed into heaven. NOT BY WORKS but through FAITH in the Creator and Messiah....Jesus Christ.

Read the book my friend.

 

[Major1]

Do you cheat on your wife? Is this what Jesus said to do? Do you lie to your wife? Why do you have problems keeping His commandments? Do you steal from your wife? Do you hate your wife? What kind of believer lives this way? That is insanity. Do you have problems with any of these?

Do you really believe that this is a proper Christian way to talk to others???

Are you displaying Christianity?

Matthew 7:20...……
"So then, you will know them by their fruits,".

 

[amariselle]

So, was this Jesus speaking in the Old Testament? Was this Jesus who said this -

Ezekiel 18
21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

When did Jesus change His mind?

Not all living and dying referred to in the OT is in regard to eternal life or the second death. The Law was never given to save eternally. It was added because of transgressions 430 after the promise/the Gospel was given to Abraham.

 

[justbyfaith]

Although, even in the New Testament repentance is a requirement for salvation. Matthew 3:8-12, 2 Corinthians 7:10, Luke 13:3 and Luke 13:5; and many verses in Acts.

 

[amariselle]

Did you not read the passages I gave about God being the Savior in the Old Testament? He also said there is no savior besides Him.

I never said otherwise. This has always been my point, Scripture is clear, there is ONE Saviour.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus is the Saviour and He is God. Are you unaware of this, @EmSw?

 

[amariselle]

Is a person justified by obeying Jesus? We'll see what comes out your mouth.

Or we won't. I'm not going to bother responding to posts designed to goad. If you want to have a respectful conversation, I am more than willing, but I am not interested in playing games.

 

[justbyfaith]

A person is justified through a living faith in Jesus, which will result in obedience.

However the doctrine of the Bible tells us that we are not saved through the obedience that is always attached to a living faith, but by the living faith itself, alone.

 

[amariselle]

I actually think it's wonderful that the first clear account we have of salvation, recorded in Scripture, is that of the thief on the cross. Many like to say God made an exception for him because he was unable to do any good works after salvation, but we know that God is no respecter of persons. Salvation is the same for everyone. The thief on the cross did nothing to earn or deserve being saved, and neither can we. And no one can argue that this thief did do anything, because he was on a cross, dying, unable to come down to serve the Lord.

We would all do well to think on that.

 

[Major1]

What is being built? What was Paul's work?

1 Corinthians 3
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1 Corinthians
Am I am not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

A building is being built, who were the people to whom Paul was writing. These same people were Paul's work.

If any man's work, that is, those who are built upon the foundation of Jesus, are burned, the man who built will suffer loss, but himself will be saved.

Paul said the Corinthians were his work. If any of these Corinthians are burned (faith tested by fire) and fail, Paul will suffer lose, but will be saved. Paul's, nor anyone else's salvation depends upon another's actions. If they abide Paul will receive a reward.

Completely false!!!!

Matt. 15:20...……..
"Watch out for false prophets. "

You have completely distorted the Word of God. COMPLETELY!

NO where does the Bible suggest that it was ONLY PAUL working for a reward.

The Scriptures actually say in 1 Corth. 3:9...…
"WE ARE LABOURERS TOGETHER WITH GOD...……"

Verse 10...……….
"BUT LET EVERY MAN TAKE HEED HOW HE BUILDETH...…."

Verse 12...………
"NOW IF ANY MAN BUILD...….".

Verse 13...……
"EVERY MAN'S WORK SHALL BE REVEALED...….."

Paul is teaching us that EVERY BELIEVER can work for a reward.

There is NOT ONE SINGLE word that says "Paul will receive a reward if they abide".

 

[GodsGrace101]

They must not be too intelligent. Where in those Scriptures can we find the word...…
"TEACHERS"??????

The words are...…."If ANY MANS Work...….".

Now the CONTEXT is found in 1 Corth. 3:10...……….
"According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it."

Then another thought is doesn't a "teacher" of the Word of God have to be a Christian? How do you separate between the two to make that a true statement that is only refers to TEACHERS.

I am sorry sister but that is not acceptable to me.

Consider verse 15...……..
"IF ANY MANS WORK shall be burned, HE shall suffer loss but HE HIMSELF shall be saved, yet so as by fire".

Do YOU personally think that means it refers to "TEACHERS"???

I think I explained this last night but can't remember.

1 Corinthians 3:6-15
6I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. 7So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to berevealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The above is speaking about teachers. Are not those who teach new Christians, teachers?

In verse 2 Paul tells the Corinthians that he fed them spiritual milk because they are not ready for solid food. Does this not refer to Paul teaching the Cor. about being Christians since this was a new way for them?

Then he goes on to say how we each have our "job" to do...
One plants, one waters...

verse 8 says each laborer will receive his own reward.

Paul and the others are the workers (by teaching) and the Corint. are the field. verse 9

Paul laid a foundation,,,which is Christ.

Those who build on the foundation with gold and silver and stones...his work will be evident. verse 12

Those who build on the foundation with wood, hay and straw...his work will be evident. verse 12

verse 13: Each man's work will become evident for it is to be revealed with fire.

Those that work are the teachers...
The work is the teaching to the Corinthians and how well it is done.

The fire in verse 13 is referring to Jesus.

 

[justbyfaith]

I actually think it's wonderful that the first clear account we have of salvation, recorded in Scripture, is that of the thief on the cross. Many like to say God made an exception for him because he was unable to do any good works after salvation, but we know that God is no respecter of persons. Salvation is the same for everyone. The thief on the cross did nothing to earn or deserve being saved, and neither can we. And no one can argue that this thief did do anything, because he was on a cross, dying, unable to come down to serve the Lord.

We would all do well to think on that.

Even if we die immediately after receiving the Lord, we will serve the Lord in heaven.

 

[amariselle]

Even if we die immediately after receiving the Lord, we will serve the Lord in heaven.

And? I don't see how that negates the point that we do nothing to earn eternal life.

 

[Major1]

So, was this Jesus speaking in the Old Testament? Was this Jesus who said this -

Ezekiel 18
21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

When did Jesus change His mind?

YES.

Luke 24:27...……..
"And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself."

Colossians 1:16...…..
"For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him."

 

[Major1]

Is a person justified by obeying Jesus? We'll see what comes out your mouth.

YES!

READ THE BOOK!

Romans 5:1...……..
"Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our LORD Jesus Christ".

This just isn't that hard.

 

[justbyfaith]

And? I don't see how that negates the point that we do nothing to earn eternal life.

I wasn't trying to negate that point. I was merely backing up my statement that a living faith will always produce obedience.

 

[Major1]

Who has ever kept the commandments? If the Law could save, Christ’s sacrifice was completely unnecessary.

Romans 3:
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Galatians 2:
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

IF keeping the commandments and doing work is the requirement of access to heaven..
who then will actually be in heaven????????