Orthodoxy & Comics: Is Paganism and the Old Ways being brought back via Comics?

[inconsequential]

right, but the Red Hood's reasoning is the reasoning of the world, which is why it is wrong. Batman's reasoning is much more of a Christian reasoning

I can respect that. Is there ever a time when Batman struggles specifically with the idea that he indirectly causes death because of the line he won't cross?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

WRT this issue, I feel like an ant speaking to Olympians because, while I love superheroes, I was never a comic book geek (Tarzan/Casca/Destroyer geek here)

so my knowledge is very limited.

Technically, that'd make you a comic book geek since many of those same characters were what other comics were made from later - and the concept of "heroes" is what comics were built upon.

So you're good, Bruh

On the issue of Tarzan, however, I must say that I have always found it interesting how stereotypes have made a difference in making certain things allowed which would not be praised if done by other groups. For with Tarzan or others, it has always amazed me that a white man in a lion cloth could conquer the jungle/be praised as a hero...but a black man doing so is never portrayed since his role in comics/novels was always playing someone who was primitive.

More can be found if choosing to go here to 10 White People Who Became Rulers of the Jungle - Io9

I guess that shapes my reaction but I absolutely agree with the above quote. When I was playing Arkham Asylum and Joker stood on top of that cage over a chasm, and he taunted Batman to "Go ahead, knock me off" my first reaction was to snort because I knew Bats wouldn't do it. Sure, it would have ended the game but it would have saved many lives and a LOT of grief for, well, everyone in Gotham.

Batman is like a good cough medicine, he alleviates a symptom for a little while but never really cures anything.

Yes indeed....and the good-cough medicine analogy is a good one to keep in mind.

Of course, there are some legitimate reasons as to why it often seems wise for Batman not to kill anyone (seeing that he already made plans on how to defeat all the members of the JLA once before/got kicked out when it was used against them) - as seen in JLA: Tower of Babel - and as my cousin said, if Batman ever decided to kill, there would be a LOT of dead super heroes at some point if he deemed it necessary since he's that paranoid

There's actually a new comic series that was highly intriguing - based on a game that came out called "Injustice Gods Among Us" - and I so loved the concept of showing what happened when Superman went past the line Batman set up for himself due to his wife/child being killed...and Batman's reaction to the loss of his parents was contrasted with Superman's reaction. To see the entire story line, one can go here:

Injustice: Gods Among Us The Movie/Story Mode/All Cutscenes (2013​

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[ArmyMatt]

I can respect that. Is there ever a time when Batman struggles specifically with the idea that he indirectly causes death because of the line he won't cross?

always, check out Hush. it's common for Bats to remember all the tragedies that the Joker has brought about folks, especially whenever Batman says that this time he will ultimately stop the Joker.

 

[inconsequential]

On the issue of Tarzan, however, I must say that I have always found it interesting how stereotypes have made a difference in making certain things allowed which would not be praised if done by other groups. For with Tarzan or others, it has always amazed me that a white man in a lion cloth could conquer the jungle/be praised as a hero...but a black man doing so is never portrayed since his role in comics/novels was always playing someone who was primitive.

Yeah, it puzzled me early, then really bothered me when I got older how the Waziri are portrayed as being native Africans but having essentially caucasian features other than dark skin. This is contrasted with the savage cannibals with normal African features. Honestly, I think he wanted to provide Tarzan with a tribe of natives to provide some backup but didn't think they would be as likeable by the audiences of the time if he didn't "whiten" them a little. Then how the people of Opar were a missing link race of ape-like males and attractive, human-like females.

I'd LOVE to see T'Challa get a movie of his own but I'd be curious to see how the name would work out considering how Shabazz and his crew of scumbag racists have soiled the term Black Panther.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yeah, it puzzled me early, then really bothered me when I got older how the Waziri are portrayed as being native Africans but having essentially caucasian features other than dark skin. This is contrasted with the savage cannibals with normal African features. .

Honestly, I think he wanted to provide Tarzan with a tribe of natives to provide some backup but didn't think they would be as likeable by the audiences of the time if he didn't "whiten" them a little. Then how the people of Opar were a missing link race of ape-like males and attractive, human-like females.

Yeah - a lot of things portrayed in the times were not unintentional - and in many respects, they were simply symptoms of the times when considering the way many from African culture (and with darker features) were treated in their times.

Some of it is similar to what occurred even with Arthurian Legend when it came to others assuming those with darker features had to be negative while only light could be good - despite the history of what went down....as said before elsewhere:

C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia suffers from the same sort of racism, most especially A Boy and His Horse. Both Tolkien and Lewis were men of their time, and let's face it, the British Empire was built on racism. However, whether modern movies need to reflect that racism is another question. I do find it a little silly when I watch episodes of Merlin to see Guinevere played by a black woman, however. Authurian England may be a fantasy, but it was most definitely not multi-cultural! .

I agree that it's possibly the case that Lewis may've struggled with racism - even if on a sub-conscious level or one where he wasn't aware (like others thinking "I'm not racist!!" when they sincerely think people from a certain culture are simply inferior to them ).


.....It's amazing how much literature from those times are praised in ours - and people try to enforce the literature as being what all ethnic groups should value...and yet they don't speak to the fact that other ethnic groups were never considered as highly by the same authors whose works are being recommended.
I actually enjoyed the fact that they were willing to be that direct in challenging the system with having Guinevere black. There was actually a wonderful academic article on the issue I thought was HIGHLY enjoyable - entitled "Black in Camelot (Africans in Arthurian Legend)" [Revised 2013-05 ... (more here ) seeing that having blacks in England was not something unheard of. It's just something many are not really aware of...even though not all black people like the Medieval ages anyhow.

• Europe was ruled by Black People until 1789 - Historum - History

Historically, the Moors invaded southern Europe including Italy, Portugal and Spain in the 8th and 9th centuries. Specifically, the "Moors" were not a distinct or self-defined people or ethnicity - and medieval and early modern Europeans applied the name to the Berbers, but also at various times to Arabs and Muslim Iberians and West Africans from Mali and Niger who had been absorbed into the Almoravid dynasty of Morocco.

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A good example of this awareness of black people in Medieval times would be Shakespeare's Othello (1603) - a Moorish general in the Venetian army (Northern Italy).

Moreover, there are accounts of Moorish travellers, ambassadors, courtesans (with their own servants), minstrels, chamberlains, and mercenaries from various sources throughout Europe, and especially England and Scotland.

• Africans in Medieval Europe -
• Problems in Studying the Role of Blacks In Europe
• AFRO-EUROPE: A History of Black people in Europe

Things to consider....

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I'd LOVE to see T'Challa get a movie of his own but I'd be curious to see how the name would work out considering how Shabazz and his crew of scumbag racists have soiled the term Black Panther.

Black Panther is still a good term, from what I've seen, provided one remember the HISTORICAL meaning of the group/its basis and how multicultural it was - and on the issue, people can recognize the true shakers from the real fakers..

But if T'Challa got his own film, that'd be amazing. The cartoon show for Black Panther that came out was already pretty intense/amazing - and I do think it'd be wild if it went even further.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I disagree. I am not talking about total pacifism, I am talking about Batman's struggle with the temptation. he does not just want to kill the Joker, he wants to subject him to every form of torture he has ever delt out, and then when at the end, finally kill him. it's his struggle against that temptation, which the Red Hood does not even do, that is more Christian in the sense that Batman struggles for control of those passions.

I think that struggle of Batman with temptation to torture the Joker/be cruel is admirable - although ultimately, not enough to make him morally superior to others who may not battle that desire - and yet their heart/goal for justice goes past what he is able to do when not even being able to bring himself to take out others who will continue to torture/harm others - and in that sense, Red Hood (flawed as he was) was much more concerned with the bottom line of saving lives.

 

[inconsequential]

As a kind of aside, do you guys think the Casca books were blasphemous? I loved them when I was a teen but stopped reading them when I became a Christian.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

As a kind of aside, do you guys think the Casca books were blasphemous? I loved them when I was a teen but stopped reading them when I became a Christian.

Interesting concept - and bold as well - when making the soldier who placed the spear into the Lord on the cross into a hero wandering the earth as punishment.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I think that struggle of Batman with temptation to torture the Joker/be cruel is admirable - although ultimately, not enough to make him morally superior to others who may not battle that desire - and yet their heart/goal for justice goes past what he is able to do when not even being able to bring himself to take out others who will continue to torture/harm others - and in that sense, Red Hood (flawed as he was) was much more concerned with the bottom line of saving lives.

but as a Christian, when it comes to life and death, we differ it to God and not to ourselves or to the law. that kinda altruism is not Christian, but is very good in a worldly sense.

 

[AV1]

Was the Hulk Series you were speaking of "World War Hulk" or something different?

I agree that Hulk is truly one of the best allegories on the struggle Christians face - including the fact that we can accomplish much in the middle of our battles just as Hulk did even on rampage mode.

Glad it doesn't manifest the same!!

Sorry, just the main series Incredible Hulk. I haven't read this in...wow...at least a decade. Figured I would start there again, since the cover art was really good.

 

[FireDragon76]

Wow, you inspired me to want to go see the movie Thor. Besides Norse mythology being very cool, that seems like its dealing with some interesting, thoughtful themes.

I don't think Christians should take an unequivocally hostile attitude to paganism or pagan themes, not all Christians historically have done so.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

but as a Christian, when it comes to life and death, we differ it to God and not to ourselves or to the lawe. that kinda altruism is not Christian, but is very good in a worldly sens

For those who are a part of the Judicial system or having to be in positions where life is to be taken (as is the case with soldiers), there is the reality of knowing what the Lord has commissioned others to do (Romans 13) when it comes to justice - and of course, it's not arbitrarily based on how one feels in any given moment. But deferring to God doesn't always equate to God saying there are no moments a life is to be taken.

The worldly sense will often say - even in the name of serving the Lord - that one cannot take the life of another doing acts of injustice/taking lives due to how it's God who decides, in light of what the Word gave in example when it came to knowing how to truly promote life.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Sorry, just the main series Incredible Hulk. I haven't read this in...wow...at least a decade. Figured I would start there again, since the cover art was really good.

Hey, gotta start somewhere.

But indeed, Hulk is amazing and someone worthy of study. Of course, Marvel has so many amazing characters within it that you could do good studies on and enjoy!!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Wow, you inspired me to want to go see the movie Thor. .

Besides Norse mythology being very cool, that seems like its dealing with some interesting, thoughtful themes.

The themes were very thoughtful....

I don't think Christians should take an unequivocally hostile attitude to paganism or pagan themes, not all Christians historically have done so

What examples did you have in mind specifically of when believers did not have hostile attitudes toward paganism or pagan themes?

 

[ArmyMatt]

For those who are a part of the Judicial system or having to be in positions where life is to be taken (as is the case with soldiers), there is the reality of knowing what the Lord has commissioned others to do (Romans 13) when it comes to justice - and of course, it's not arbitrarily based on how one feels in any given moment. But deferring to God doesn't always equate to God saying there are no moments a life is to be taken.

The worldly sense will often say - even in the name of serving the Lord - that one cannot take the life of another doing acts of injustice/taking lives due to how it's God who decides, in light of what the Word gave in example when it came to knowing how to truly promote life.

I didn't say there were no moments, just the ones where Batman usually can. most times his big struggle is when the Joker is at his mercy, that is often when he really struggles.

or when he meets someone who will do the dirty work like Red Hood or Lock-Up

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I didn't say there were no moments, just the ones where Batman usually can. most times his big struggle is when the Joker is at his mercy, that is often when he really struggles.

or when he meets someone who will do the dirty work like Red Hood or Lock-Up

Batman has had a lot of moments like that where things were critical - and it was a life or death decision based on what a villain chose to do in respect to harming or killing another.

 

[inconsequential]

"I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you..."

 

[ArmyMatt]

Batman has had a lot of moments like that where things were critical - and it was a life or death decision based on what a villain chose to do in respect to harming or killing another.

yeah, but I mean when he really contemplates taking a life, like rrreeeeealllllyyyyy is tempted. usually it's when his hands are around the throat of whoever, and he knows how quickly and easily he could end it

 

[AV1]

Sorry, just the main series Incredible Hulk. I haven't read this in...wow...at least a decade. Figured I would start there again, since the cover art was really good.

I downloaded World War Hulk 1-5 last night on the recommendation...great so far!