Online donations pour in for waitress who was refused a tip because she's gay

[QueSeraSera]

Err.. okay.

I am not saying that people should make assumptions based on one's appearance. However, many (most) people do.

I try to avoid "assuming" that the person is gay . I suspect they may be and wouldn't be "shocked" if I found out they were .

 

[PlayWithFire]

I try to avoid "assuming" that the person is gay . I suspect they may be and wouldn't be "shocked" if I found out they were .

Hm.. My use of "assumption" may have been the wrong word choice. I think labeling others is part of human nature - but that is not an excuse for assuming one is right without concrete evidence.

In any case, I think I treat those situations the same way you do.

 

[QueSeraSera]

The other thing about this story ?

Is the customers used her services then didn't pay her .

Why did they let her do the work ?

If they didn't agree with her lifestyle or the way she lives her life .Why did they agree to let her work for them ? Which is what food servers are there for .To do a good job for you for tips .

She was good enough to wait on them just not enough to pay ?

I would like to see them try that in any other area of service .

Try it with a doctor . I have a vet that I "suspect" might be gay . I would like to see what would happen if after they treat my animal I hand them a note that says "I'm not paying you because I don't agree with your lifestyle ."

How about an attorney ?

 

[Hetta]

Err.. okay.

I am not saying that people should make assumptions based on one's appearance. However, many (most) people do.

I have done too. It's part of the human script to make assumptions about people (it's part of automatic thinking). It's what you do with the assumption that matters. Like, you guess or assume your waiter or waitress is gay - you can choose to interact with them as a fellow human being and tip them according to their service, or you can choose to fume and fret about their sexuality while you eat your meal (like, why?) and not just not tip them, but even leave an obnoxious comment telling them why you didn't tip them.

 

[Vanilla Scripture]

A very valid point. If they objected to what they judged by her appearance to be a lifestyle they opposed, why would they judge her to be worthy of serving them food?

And then not pay her for that?
This entire thing reflects poorly on the family and their values. As well as their clear lack of logic.

The other thing about this story ?

Is the customers used her services then didn't pay her .

Why did they let her do the work ?

If they didn't agree with her lifestyle or the way she lives her life .Why did they agree to let her work for them ? Which is what food servers are there for .To do a good job for you for tips .

She was good enough to wait on them just not enough to pay ?

I would like to see them try that in any other area of service .

Try it with a doctor . I have a vet that I "suspect" might be gay . I would like to see what would happen if after they treat my animal I hand them a note that says "I'm not paying you because I don't agree with your lifestyle ."

How about an attorney ?

 

[QueSeraSera]

Hm.. My use of "assumption" may have been the wrong word choice. I think labeling others is part of human nature - but that is not an excuse for assuming one is right without concrete evidence.

In any case, I think I treat those situations the same way you do.

I get it .

I'm more likely to say "I have a strong suspicion." Or "I think this person might be gay ."

Not that I dwell on it or even care .

Its no different than someone assuming I'm a female because of my appearance and most likely heterosexual because I fit some stereotypical female traits . And of course there are many more of us so just the odds.

Someone is more likely to be surprised If I told them I was a lesbian .

 

[QueSeraSera]

A very valid point. If they objected to what they judged by her appearance to be a lifestyle they opposed, why would they judge her to be worthy of serving them food?

And then not pay her for that?
This entire thing reflects poorly on the family and their values. As well as their clear lack of logic.

Right. She is worthy to serve them just not to pay her anything for the service .Why would they want a lesbian to touch their plates or even talk to them ?

They with held the tip as punishment . And they could get away with it .

Unlike a vet in my example . They would sue you .

 

[QueSeraSera]

I have done too. It's part of the human script to make assumptions about people (it's part of automatic thinking). It's what you do with the assumption that matters. Like, you guess or assume your waiter or waitress is gay - you can choose to interact with them as a fellow human being and tip them according to their service, or you can choose to fume and fret about their sexuality while you eat your meal (like, why?) and not just not tip them, but even leave an obnoxious comment telling them why you didn't tip them.

Or how about grow a spine if its that upsetting to them ?Tell "nicely" to her face and request a different server .

If they wanted to stand on their principles why be a coward about it ?Let her serve you for an hour /do a good job no complaints there. Then not pay her and write her note she reads after they are safe from any confrontation .

 

[PlayWithFire]

The other thing about this story ?

Is the customers used her services then didn't pay her .

Why did they let her do the work ?

If they didn't agree with her lifestyle or the way she lives her life .Why did they agree to let her work for them ? Which is what food servers are there for .To do a good job for you for tips .

She was good enough to wait on them just not enough to pay ?

I would like to see them try that in any other area of service .

Try it with a doctor . I have a vet that I "suspect" might be gay . I would like to see what would happen if after they treat my animal I hand them a note that says "I'm not paying you because I don't agree with your lifestyle ."

How about an attorney ?

YES. (I meant to say something along these lines earlier in the thread but got sidetracked..).

In the United States, federal minimum wage for "tipped employees" is $2.13/hr. New Jersey - where this story happened and where I also happen to be a waitress - has the same minimum wage. Tips are the majority of our wages.

I have been stiffed before even when there were zero complaints, issues out of my control (ie. kitchen messing up the food), and/or I even was complimented on my serving by the very same table. It is an awful feeling. For me it is not just because of the monetary loss - it is upsetting (to wonder what I could have done wrong, the feeling that these people truly view me as a servant, etc). That said, I cannot even imagine how this waitress must have felt.

These people obviously knew from the beginning that they were not going to tip because of her perceived "lifestyle". Yet, they still chose to have her continue to wait on them. To tell someone "well you are good enough to be my slave, not somebody who is worthy of being paid" is disgusting.

 

[QueSeraSera]

I thought of something else . As far as it being illogical.

How do they know they have not tipped many times in the past that someone who is homosexual ?

I know a gay man that you would never "suspect" hes gay .

He's very masculine physically and in his body language . He also happens to have a very deep voice even for a man . He also dresses in traditional "man clothes." And he rides a motorcycle .

My point is if they don't want to pay a homosexual for a service . They would have ask anyone male or female if they were gay after the service to determine if they got paid or not.

 

[PlayWithFire]

I have done too. It's part of the human script to make assumptions about people (it's part of automatic thinking). It's what you do with the assumption that matters.

Like, you guess or assume your waiter or waitress is gay - you can choose to interact with them as a fellow human being and tip them according to their service, or you can choose to fume and fret about their sexuality while you eat your meal (like, why?) and not just not tip them, but even leave an obnoxious comment telling them why you didn't tip them.

I don't understand people who think it is okay (or actually morally right) to treat somebody like they are sub-human because of their sexual orientation.

 

[QueSeraSera]

YES. (I meant to say something along these lines earlier in the thread but got sidetracked..).

In the United States, federal minimum wage for "tipped employees" is $2.13/hr. New Jersey - where this story happened and where I also happen to be a waitress - has the same minimum wage. Tips are the majority of our wages.

I have been stiffed before even when there were zero complaints, issues out of my control (ie. kitchen messing up the food), and/or I even was complimented on my serving by the very same table. It is an awful feeling. For me it is not just because of the monetary loss - it is upsetting (to wonder what I could have done wrong, the feeling that these people truly view me as a servant, etc). That said, I cannot even imagine how this waitress must have felt.

These people obviously knew from the beginning that they were not going to tip because of her perceived "lifestyle". Yet, they still chose to have her continue to wait on them. To tell someone "well you are good enough to be my slave, not somebody who is worthy of being paid" is disgusting.

Yes its complete rejection for any server . You feel used . For her I imagine more so because it was over her sexual orientation which has nothing to do with her job performance .

There should be a mandatory minimum IMHO tip added (20%). Unless the customer can show a valid complaint against the server specifically . That would not include the kitchen messing up .

If a customer is extra happy and a generous person they can add to the minimum .

 

[PlayWithFire]

I thought of something else . As far as it being illogical.

How do they know they have not tipped many times in the past that someone who is homosexual ?

I know a gay man that you would never "suspect" hes gay .

He's very masculine physically and in his body language . He also happens to have a very deep voice even for a man . He also dresses in traditional "man clothes." And he rides a motorcycle .

My point is if they don't want to pay a homosexual for a service . They would have ask anyone male or female if they were gay after the service to determine if they got paid or not.

I was actually about to post something similar in response to your earlier comment about people assuming you were a heterosexual female. (Er.. I'm not stalking you in here, I promise? ).

People pretty much always assume that I am a heterosexual female, too. But.. I'm bisexual.

I also have a close male friend who is gay, but also does not appear so. People think that we're a couple all of the time. Yet people never assumed I was dating any female (whether we were or not).

I'll admit this story hits somewhat close to home for me. It makes me wonder how many people would not have tipped me (or discriminated against me in other ways) if my sexual orientation was more obvious.

 

[Vylo]

No.

You must not meet many people.

 

[PlayWithFire]

Yes its complete rejection for any server . You feel used . For her I imagine more so because it was over her sexual orientation which has nothing to do with her job performance .

Agree 100%.

There should be a mandatory minimum IMHO tip added (20%). Unless the customer can show a valid complaint against the server specifically . That would not include the kitchen messing up .

If a customer is extra happy and a generous person they can add to the minimum .

Some places do have an automatic gratuity for larger parties (almost never for the usual size tables), but it's usually more like 15-18%.

I agree that a mandatory minimum (preferably 20%) for all tables would be better. Unfortunately, I don't think the majority of places would do that - too much possible backlash from customers who are of course "always right".

 

[QueSeraSera]

I was actually about to post something similar in response to your earlier comment about people assuming you were a heterosexual female. (Er.. I'm not stalking you in here, I promise? ).

People pretty much always assume that I am a heterosexual female, too. But.. I'm bisexual.

I also have a close male friend who is gay, but also does not appear so. People think that we're a couple all of the time. Yet people never assumed I was dating any female (whether we were or not).

I'll admit this story hits somewhat close to home for me. It makes me wonder how many people would not have tipped me (or discriminated against me in other ways) if my sexual orientation was more obvious.

Right . Not tipped or even tipped you less because of it .

But yeah people assuming I'm heterosexual would happen to be correct . But for all they know I'm totally gay ,never even been with a man ,and I have a wife .

 

[QueSeraSera]

Agree 100%.



Some places do have an automatic gratuity for larger parties (almost never for the usual size tables), but it's usually more like 15-18%.

I agree that a mandatory minimum (preferably 20%) for all tables would be better. Unfortunately, I don't think the majority of places would do that - too much possible backlash from customers who are of course "always right".

Yes I have been to many restaurants with a large group where they had a minimum gratuity . 15% rings a bell. I believe for a party of 10 or more most places .

 

[Vanilla Scripture]

You must not meet many people.

Why would you say that?

 

[Vylo]

Why would you say that?

Take a drive threw New Hope and Lambertville. The rainbow flags might be a bit of a giveaway though.

 

[QueSeraSera]

Why would you say that?

I'm not answering for him . But I am surprised to meet a person who has never wondered if someone might be homosexual based on appearance /body language /or even manner of speech.

It could be you might not have been exposed to any gay people that had a lot of the stereo typical traits of the opposite gender . E.T.A even exaggerated traits.

I will give an example . I know another gay man besides the one I mentioned. He has a lot of the stereotypical traits one might associate with feminine .

Example he giggles . He talks like a "valley girl" . Like OH MA GOD! He puts his hands on his hips ! He very "dramatic" in his mannerisms like waving his hands around in the air when he talks . He walks with a "sway" in his hips .He's likely to notice what you are wearing and admire it . But in an "OH MA GOD I LOVE those shoes!" way. Hes very stereotypical "dramatic" in the feminine sense. Most the women I know are way less "dramatic" than him .

If I had never met him before and spent 5 minutes socializing with him .Within 1 or 2 minutes I would "wonder' if he is gay .

And if I was with 20 other people that didn't know him I would put money on it most of them were noticing this and wondering at same moment I was .