One of The STRONGEST Arguments for The Sabbath ~

[pasifika]

Hmmm, interesting accusation. Maybe you can quote me actually saying that.

The works of the law is not defined as the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments are written by the Finger of God and reflect the very character of God . We keep the commandments out of Love to God and Jesus says He will give us the Holy Spirit to help keep these laws. John 14:15-18

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law
Faith does not void out the law, it establishes the law. I will ask you this question again, do we show faith when we obey God's Word or disobey? Faith and obedience are not at odds with each other. Obeying God is the fruit of our faith.
Breaking God's laws shows we do not have truth in us.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Jesus also gives us this warning
Matthew 7: 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Keeping the commandments is how we express love to Jesus and how He knows us. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3



God's commandments are pretty easy to read, seems intentionally easy so even a 10 year old could read and understand. Exodus 20

Again how can you have faith in someone but not enough faith to obey what they ask?

Hello
The reason I said Don't compare yourself to Jesus is based on a statement that " if Jesus can keep God's commandments then we can do as well" something like that...

You follow the 10commandments as if it works i.e..you shall not do this or that...is like a list for you to follow...

But God's law is already in us (in our mind) but must live out from our hearts... read Romans..and it's All about doing right, doing good or LOVE...

The 10 commandments only showed you are a sinner...it cannot show your love for God because it tainted with sin is just human love God desire "Agape" love a love only comes from God as it's written " We love because He "First" loved Us".....Romans 7, John14,15 etc

 

[pasifika]

Mark 2:27

New International Version
Then he (Jesus) said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Hebrews 4:9-10
(9) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
(10) For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Here the critics grab themselves to say that the rest of “Today” found in Jesus has been replaced by the seventh day Sabbath. But a closer examination of this verse reveals otherwise. Note carefully that at the end of verse 10 we read, “as God did from his.” The verse plainly says we are to enter into a rest, the rest of Sabbath-Keeping according to the previous verse.

But is this rest spoken of here the rest found in Jesus? Well, when we come to Jesus, we find rest from Sin, and from guilt of Sin, because he cleanses us “of all unrighteousness” – 1 John 1:9. If this rest being spoken of here is the rest from Sin found in Jesus, does God also rest from sin and from the guilt of sin? Of course not, he is a Holy God, and doesn’t need to rest from sin.

So the rest that we are to enter according to verse 10 is to be the same rest that God entered into… “as God did from his.” The second rest we have gathered in this study is the rest we will one day experience, the rest of heaven. Is this the rest Paul is now speaking of in verse 10? Remember, it specifically says, “as God did from his.” Therefore, whatever rest this is, it will be the same rest God experienced as well. Does God need to be given the rest of Heaven as we do? The answer is obvious:

Psalm 33:13-14
(13) The LORD looketh from heaven; he beholdeth all the sons of men.
(14) From the place of his habitation he looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth.

Why then does Paul now seem to shift the focus? Well, he doesn’t really, he introduced the seventh day since verse 4, and verses 5 and 10 explains why he did this. Notice how verse 10 reads one more time:

“For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.”

See, the person who has entered into the rest of Jesus Christ, that same person also rests from his works on the seventh day “as God did from his.” Why? Well because the rest of the seventh day represents both the rest of today and the rest of heaven. This is what Paul tried to teach us with verses 4 and 5. In verse 4 he says that God spake “in a certian place…” about the seventh day, then he tell us in verse 5 that “in this place again, if they will enter into my rest…” He is comparing the two, the seventh day rest (verse 4) with the rest we are to enter into (verse 5).

Now the he word “rest” in verse 9 is translated from the word “sabbatismos” and it comes from but one greek word: sabbaton. This is the same word translated “sabbath” elsewhere in the New Testament. The difference with this word however, is in the suffix “ismos” which gives this word the meaning of “keeping” or “sabbath keeping.” It is true that this word is not used anywhere else in the New Testament, but the concept is certainty found in the bible. Sabbath keeping if first found in the life of Jesus (Luke 4:16). We then find Sabbath keeping among the followers of Jesus in Luke 23:54-56. The apostles constantly gathered together upon the Sabbath day, not merely in the synagogues (Acts 13:14) but also out doors by a river side (Acts 16:13-15). Sabbath keeping will be found in the New Heavens and the New Earth according to Isaiah 66:23, and God himself kept his own Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-3! So while sabbatismos is not used elsewhere in the New Testament, its meaning is all over the bible, and it was used here to show that this “sabbatismos” or “sabbath keeping” still “remains” as a reminder of that blessed hope

Hello,
Thank you..

So do you see the "Sabbath Rest " in Hebrews 4 as a physical Rest (sitting not doing work, reading, sleeping etc) Or a "spiritual rest" (rest from creation in which heavens &earth were created by the Word (Gods work) or resting from slavery to sin (work of God through our Faith)..

There is only one rest described in Hebrews 3&4 that is the "Sabbath Rest" of God..

In Hebrews 4 :5 in reference to those were given the 7th day command..."They shall Never enter My Rest"...

Therefore a new Sabbath day was given by God..
Hebrews 4:7.."God again set a certain day calling it today"...

 

[chad kincham]

To me, one of the strongest arguments, not just for the Sabbath, but for the entire law, is Matthew 5:17--"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law." {NIV}

To make it even clearer and stronger, in my mind at least, Jesus then basically repeated Himself--"I have not come to abolish [it].

Unfortunately... because He then finishes that second statement with the declaration--"I have come to fulfill them," most Christians interpret that to be ultimately saying--HE DID COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW.

To me, that's a horrible twisting of Christ's words.

How can he twice say He had not come to abolish the law, and then abolish the law?

When He said He came to "fulfill" them, He was saying He came to obey them.

"I have kept my Father's commandments." {John 15:10}

P.S.--He then went on to say: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” {vs 19}

(These words weren't even written and published till long after His death. They make absolutely no sense at all if Christ abolished the law at His death.)

What you don’t realize is, the law of Moses is not meant for a righteous person, but for the ungodly, for sinners, for murderers, etc.: because it exists to show the unsaved what sin IS.


1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a RIGHTEOUS man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for THE UNGODLY and for SINNERS , for UNHOLY and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


Christians are not ungodly anymore, but are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, thus we’ve died to the law:

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:


Rom 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have DIED TO THE LAW through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.


Rom 7:5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, AROUSED BY THE LAW, were at work in our members to bear fruit for DEATH.


Rom 7:6 But now we are RELEASED from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the NEW way of the SPIRIT and not in the OLD way of the written code.


For Christians only, (not the ungodly) Jesus nailed the law of Moses to His cross and took it out of our way:


Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;


Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


And the law of Moses was temporary until Christ came:


Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made (Jesus Christ), and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.


Gal 3:23 But BEFORE faith came, we were KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.


Gal 3:24 Wherefore THE LAW was our SCHOOLMASTER to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


Gal 3:25 But AFTER that faith is come, we are NO LONGER under a schoolmaster.


Christians have the fruit of the spirit, instead of the letter of the law, which is why for us THERE IS NO LAW, of Moses for us:


Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,


Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such THERE IS NO LAW.


Paul comes right out and says, he is not under the law of Moses, but IS under the law of Christ ( the law of love aka the two love commands).


1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.


1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though NOT being myself UNDER THE LAW) that I might win those under the law.


1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but UNDER the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

 

[chad kincham]

To me, one of the strongest arguments, not just for the Sabbath, but for the entire law, is Matthew 5:17--"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law." {NIV}

To make it even clearer and stronger, in my mind at least, Jesus then basically repeated Himself--"I have not come to abolish [it].

Unfortunately... because He then finishes that second statement with the declaration--"I have come to fulfill them," most Christians interpret that to be ultimately saying--HE DID COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW.

To me, that's a horrible twisting of Christ's words.

How can he twice say He had not come to abolish the law, and then abolish the law?

When He said He came to "fulfill" them, He was saying He came to obey them.

"I have kept my Father's commandments." {John 15:10}

P.S.--He then went on to say: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” {vs 19}

(These words weren't even written and published till long after His death. They make absolutely no sense at all if Christ abolished the law at His death.)

What you don’t realize is, the law of Moses is not meant for a righteous person, but for the ungodly, for sinners, for murderers, etc.: because it exists to show the unsaved what sin IS.


1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a RIGHTEOUS man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for THE UNGODLY and for SINNERS , for UNHOLY and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


Christians are not ungodly anymore, but are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, thus we’ve died to the law.


Rom 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have DIED TO THE LAW through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.


Rom 7:5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, AROUSED BY THE LAW, were at work in our members to bear fruit for DEATH.


Rom 7:6 But now we are RELEASED from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the NEW way of the SPIRIT and not in the OLD way of the written code.


For Christians only, (not the ungodly) Jesus nailed the law of Moses to His cross and took it out of our way:


Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;


Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


And the law of Moses was temporary until Christ came:


Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made (Jesus Christ), and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.


Gal 3:23 But BEFORE faith came, we were KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.


Gal 3:24 Wherefore THE LAW was our SCHOOLMASTER to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


Gal 3:25 But AFTER that faith is come, we are NO LONGER under a schoolmaster.


Christians have the fruit of the spirit, instead of the letter of the law, which is why for us THERE IS NO LAW, of Moses for us:


Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,


Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such THERE IS NO LAW.


Paul comes right out and says, he is not under the law of Moses, but IS under the law of Christ ( the law of love aka the two love commands).


1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.


1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though NOT being myself UNDER THE LAW) that I might win those under the law.


1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but UNDER the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

God is not in disagreement with himself about which laws we should follow, so the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses. In Romans 7:21-8:2, Paul equated the Law of Moses with the Law of the Spirit by contrasting them both with the law of sin and death

Wrong interpretation. The Bible is clear that the law of sin and death, which is the law of Moses, is not the law of the spirit, which is new covenant, not old.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

 

[chad kincham]

Hello,
Thank you..

So do you see the "Sabbath Rest " in Hebrews 4 as a physical Rest (sitting not doing work, reading, sleeping etc) Or a "spiritual rest" (rest from creation in which heavens &earth were created by the Word (Gods work) or resting from slavery to sin (work of God through our Faith)..

There is only one rest described in Hebrews 3&4 that is the "Sabbath Rest" of God..

In Hebrews 4 :5 in reference to those were given the 7th day command..."They shall Never enter My Rest"...

Therefore a new Sabbath day was given by God..
Hebrews 4:7.."God again set a certain day calling it today"...

Hebrews 4 is clearly about a rest YET TO COME that we have not entered into, which lets out 4th command which has been in effect since God gave it to Israel as remembrance of His delivering them from bondage in Egypt.

Specifically it’s talking about the millennial reign of Jesus that is aka Gods cm8mg rest for His people.

 

[pasifika]

Hebrews 4 is clearly about a rest YET TO COME that we have not entered into, which lets out 4th command which has been in effect since God gave it to Israel as remembrance of His delivering them from bondage in Egypt.

Specifically it’s talking about the millennial reign of Jesus that is aka Gods cm8mg rest for His people.

Hebrews 4:3...We who have "believed" enter that rest,...

Is it present or future? I believe the apostles and many Christians in the past enters into God's Rest by "Believing the Gospel"...

 

[Soyeong]

What you don’t realize is, the law of Moses is not meant for a righteous person, but for the ungodly, for sinners, for murderers, etc.: because it exists to show the unsaved what sin IS.


1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a RIGHTEOUS man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for THE UNGODLY and for SINNERS , for UNHOLY and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

In 1 Timothy 1:8, it says that the law is good if it is obeyed properly, so verses 9-10 should not be uses to argue against the law being good to obey. We express our character traits through our actions, so saying that doing what is righteous is not for a righteous person is absurd and a bit like saying that expressing courage is not for the courageous. If someone says that obeying the law is only for the unrighteous as justification for doing what is unrighteous, then they thereby become someone that the law is for. The righteous don't need to be taught instructions for how to do what is righteous because we are already following those instructions, but rather it is the unrighteous who need to be taught how to follow those instruction. In Proverbs 4:2, it defines sound doctrine as saying not to forsake God's law.

Christians are not ungodly anymore, but are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, thus we’ve died to the law.

The way to not be ungodly is not by rejecting God's instructions for how to do what is godly. Christ expressed the righteousness of God through his actions by living in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so that is also the way that we live when we are the righteousness of God in Christ.

Rom 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have DIED TO THE LAW through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.


Rom 7:5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, AROUSED BY THE LAW, were at work in our members to bear fruit for DEATH.


Rom 7:6 But now we are RELEASED from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the NEW way of the SPIRIT and not in the OLD way of the written code.

In Romans 7:22-25, Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God and served it with his mind, but contrasted that with the law of sin, which held him captive, and which he served with his flesh, and the Law of God is the Law of Moses, so it can't be the law of sin and death. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, so if Romans 7:4-6 were referring to the Law of Moses rather than to the law of sin, then that would mean that the way to become united with Christ is by rejecting God's instructions for how to become united with Christ, that the way to bear fruit for God is by rejecting God's instructions for how to bear fruit for God, that Paul delighted in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, and that he delighted in being held captive, all of which is absurd, but rather it is the law of sin that he described as holding him captive.

For Christians only, (not the ungodly) Jesus nailed the law of Moses to His cross and took it out of our way:


Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;


Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

All of God's righteousness are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so neither of those verses should be interpreted as referring to the Mosaic Law. God did not make any mistakes when He gave His law, so He had no need to remove His own eternal laws. The only way that one of God's laws could be taken out of the way would be if what it teaches us about the eternal nature of God is no longer true. God did not give any laws for the purpose of creating a dividing wall of hostility, but rather His law instructs us to love our neighbors as ourselves.

In regard to Colossians 2:14, it is not speaking about any laws being nailed to the cross. There is a difference between these two statements:

1.) You shall not commit murder.

2.) This person has been found guilty of murder.

The first is an example of a law that is for our own good while the second is an example of a handwritten ordinance that was against someone that was nailed to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed. In Matthew 27:37, it says that they put the charge that was against Jesus over his head, so what was nailed to people's crosses was not the laws themselves, but the charge that was against them. This serves as a perfect analogy for the list of our violations of God's law being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with ending any of God's laws. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to end any laws, but in order to redeem us from all lawlessness, so saying that there were any laws nailed to the cross undermines what he accomplished on the cross. The Greek word "dogma" means "edict, ordinance, or decree" and is never used by the Bible to refer to God's law.

And the law of Moses was temporary until Christ came:


Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made (Jesus Christ), and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.


Gal 3:23 But BEFORE faith came, we were KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.


Gal 3:24 Wherefore THE LAW was our SCHOOLMASTER to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


Gal 3:25 But AFTER that faith is come, we are NO LONGER under a schoolmaster.

Christ did not go around telling people to stop repenting because his law had ended, but rather he called for people to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so Galatians 3 should not be interpreted in a way that undermines what is recorded about what Jesus did during his ministry. Someone who disregarded everything that their schoolmaster taught them after they graduated would be missing the whole point of a schoolmaster. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew then, so God's law brings us to Christ because its goal is to teach us how to know him, but does not bring us to Christ so that we can reject what he spent his ministry teaching and go back to living in sin.

Christians have the fruit of the spirit, instead of the letter of the law, which is why for us THERE IS NO LAW, of Moses for us:


Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,


Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such THERE IS NO LAW.

In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it, so there is no law against the fruits of the Spirit because they are all in accordance with God's law. After all, the Mosaic Law was given by God and the Spirit is God, so it is the Law of the Spirit. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God.

Paul comes right out and says, he is not under the law of Moses, but IS under the law of Christ ( the law of love aka the two love commands).


1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.


1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though NOT being myself UNDER THE LAW) that I might win those under the law.


1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but UNDER the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

Christ set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so he spent his ministry teaching how to obey it by word and by example, and it wouldn't make sense to think that the Law of Christ was something other than what Christ taught. God is not in disagreement with Himself about which law we should follow, so the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses. In 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul said in a parallel statement that he was not outside the Law of God, but under the Law of Christ, so he equated the Law of Christ with the Law of Moses.

Wrong interpretation. The Bible is clear that the law of sin and death, which is the law of Moses, is not the law of the spirit, which is new covenant, not old.

Romans 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

Paul is clearly contrasting the Law of God with the law of sin, so the Law of God can't be the law of sin and death. In Jeremiah 33, the New Covenant is made with those who are returning to obedience to the Torah and involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, and the Torah is the Mosaic Law.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

If only keeping 10 to 20 or 50 or 100 or 250 commandments was enough to be saved by keeping the law, but it's not. It's all or nothing.

You really do not understand any of this do you...otherwise you would not say things like that.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Paul comes right out and says, he is not under the law of Moses, but IS under the law of Christ ( the law of love aka the two love commands).

And yet the 2 "love commands" ARE FROM THE LAW...from Deuteronomy and Leviticus. So either Paul was wrong or you do not understand what Paul meant...which is it? I bet it is the latter...

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hello
The reason I said Don't compare yourself to Jesus is based on a statement that " if Jesus can keep God's commandments then we can do as well" something like that...

You follow the 10commandments as if it works i.e..you shall not do this or that...is like a list for you to follow...

But God's law is already in us (in our mind) but must live out from our hearts... read Romans..and it's All about doing right, doing good or LOVE...

The 10 commandments only showed you are a sinner...it cannot show your love for God because it tainted with sin is just human love God desire "Agape" love a love only comes from God as it's written " We love because He "First" loved Us".....Romans 7, John14,15 etc

This is what I said 'we should keep the commandments as well', which is really far fetched from saying I am comparing myself to Jesus. Jesus directly asks us to keep His commandments so I am under the mindset that we should obey our Creator and Redeemer.

Maybe this has not been explained well to you why I keep the commandments. I keep the commandments out of love. When I only worship God, not vain God's holy name, or break His holy Sabbath day or not bow to idols I am expressing love to God. This is what Jesus asks us to do directly to show our love. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3 If I were to do these things, it's not showings very much love to our Creator who told us this is how we show love to Him. Same with our neighbors, how can I love my neighbor by stealing or coveting, or committing adultery etc. Doing these things is the opposite of love, which is why LOVE fulfills the commandments and when we break these morally- right laws, we do not express love to God or our neighbor.

I don't go around with a list of laws in my hand and I am not focused on the laws. I am focused on loving God and having a personal relations with God. I am aware of the laws through God's Word and the Holy Spirit, who convicts me when I stumble and fall, so I can turn from sin with the help Jesus promises of the Holy Spirit which is given so we can obey Gods laws. God's laws are not grievous, they reflect the very character of Jesus- Perfect, holy, eternal, just, spiritual, pure, and righteous.

I do find it sad that people think despite such clear instruction by God and Jesus that we are given a pass to sin freely. This is not what Jesus taught, this doctrine has no light. Isaiah 8:20

I hope this better explains things.

 

[eleos1954]

Hello,
Thank you..

So do you see the "Sabbath Rest " in Hebrews 4 as a physical Rest (sitting not doing work, reading, sleeping etc) Or a "spiritual rest" (rest from creation in which heavens &earth were created by the Word (Gods work) or resting from slavery to sin (work of God through our Faith)..

There is only one rest described in Hebrews 3&4 that is the "Sabbath Rest" of God..

In Hebrews 4 :5 in reference to those were given the 7th day command..."They shall Never enter My Rest"...

Therefore a new Sabbath day was given by God..
Hebrews 4:7.."God again set a certain day calling it today"...

“If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the Lord Honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure or talking idly; then you shall take delight in the Lord, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.” Isaiah 58:13,14 ESV

If the 7th day Sabbath was done away with (as some believe) .... then referring to the physical 7th day of creation (as it clearly does in Hebrews) then the illustration used is useless.

The 7th day Sabbath is a physical reminder of spiritual truths

It points to the past—the Creation.
It points to the present—redemption and sanctification.
It points to the future—the Kingdom of God.

He created it, tells us to remember it and keep it holy, Jesus honored it

It truly is a delight.

Be blessed.

 

[pasifika]

This is what I said 'we should keep the commandments as well', which is really far fetched from saying I am comparing myself to Jesus. Jesus directly asks us to keep His commandments so I am under the mindset that we should obey our Creator and Redeemer.

Maybe this has not been explained well to you why I keep the commandments. I keep the commandments out of love. When I only worship God, not vain God's holy name, or break His holy Sabbath day or not bow to idols I am expressing love to God. This is what Jesus asks us to do directly to show our love. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3 If I were to do these things, it's not showings very much love to our Creator who told us this is how we show love to Him. Same with our neighbors, how can I love my neighbor by stealing or coveting, or committing adultery etc. Doing these things is the opposite of love, which is why LOVE fulfills the commandments and when we break these morally- right laws, we do not express love to God or our neighbor.

I don't go around with a list of laws in my hand and I am not focused on the laws. I am focused on loving God and having a personal relations with God. I am aware of the laws through God's Word and the Holy Spirit, who convicts me when I stumble and fall, so I can turn from sin with the help Jesus promises of the Holy Spirit which is given so we can obey Gods laws. God's laws are not grievous, they reflect the very character of Jesus- Perfect, holy, eternal, just, spiritual, pure, and righteous.

I do find it sad that people think despite such clear instruction by God and Jesus that we are given a pass to sin freely. This is not what Jesus taught, this doctrine has no light. Isaiah 8:20

I hope this better explains things.

Thank you SB,
First, when Jesus speaks of His commandments in John 14 & 15 He meant to "Believe in Him" and to "Love one another"..So why are giving me the 10 commandments Moses spoke and Not Jesus??

Second, the 10 commandments were given by a covenant based on our own works or desire Not God...

See how that covenant is agreed upon between God and Israel in Sinai, Exodus 19: 7,8..So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all the words the Lord has commanded him to speak. The people all responded together, "WE WILL DO EVERYTHING THE LORD HAS SAID"...

Now this is how Gods commandments is being followed under this covenant..."The people will do everything" NOT GOD..

Hence why I said that follow the 10commandments out of love for God means "Your own love" own desire etc NOT from the desire of God..
God desire "AGAPE LOVE" and that Love is only comes from God, so how can we Love (Agape) God if that Love does not found in Us (humans)??

Then, let God do it for us..through His Son whom he spoke those commandments to Believe and to Love one another..

we can claim in our mouth that we love God But our hearts is far from it..

 

[eleos1954]

Thank you SB,
First, when Jesus speaks of His commandments in John 14 & 15 He meant to "Believe in Him" and to "Love one another"..So why are giving me the 10 commandments Moses spoke and Not Jesus??

Second, the 10 commandments were given by a covenant based on our own works or desire Not God...

See how that covenant is agreed upon between God and Israel in Sinai, Exodus 19: 7,8..So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all the words the Lord has commanded him to speak. The people all responded together, "WE WILL DO EVERYTHING THE LORD HAS SAID"...

Now this is how Gods commandments is being followed under this covenant..."The people will do everything" NOT GOD..

Hence why I said that follow the 10commandments out of love for God means "Your own love" own desire etc NOT from the desire of God..
God desire "AGAPE LOVE" and that Love is only comes from God, so how can we Love (Agape) God if that Love does not found in Us (humans)??

Then, let God do it for us..through His Son whom he spoke those commandments to Believe and to Love one another..

we can claim in our mouth that we love God But our hearts is far from it..

First, when Jesus speaks of His commandments in John 14 & 15 He meant to "Believe in Him" and to "Love one another"..So why are giving me the 10 commandments Moses spoke and Not Jesus??

The 10 commandments were spoken and written on tablets of stone by God (Jesus) himself.

The 10 Commandments are all about love.

The apostle Paul wrote, “Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:10).

 

[pasifika]

“If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the Lord Honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure or talking idly; then you shall take delight in the Lord, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.” Isaiah 58:13,14 ESV

If the 7th day Sabbath was done away with (as some believe) .... then referring to the physical 7th day of creation (as it clearly does in Hebrews) then the illustration used is useless.

The 7th day Sabbath is a physical reminder of spiritual truths

It points to the past—the Creation.
It points to the present—redemption and sanctification.
It points to the future—the Kingdom of God.

He created it, tells us to remember it and keep it holy, Jesus honored it

It truly is a delight.

Be blessed.

Thank you @eleos1954,
I believe The "Sabbath Rest" hasn't changed at all only the day has changed...As in Hebrews 4:7..God then set a certain day calling it "today"...

We cannot enter into God's Rest on the 7th day as it says " they shall never enter My Rest"..Hebrews 4:5

I see the "Sabbath Rest" as a spiritual Rest or eternal Rest..not a physical or a weekly Rest..

 

[pasifika]

The 10 commandments were spoken and written on tablets of stone by God (Jesus) himself.

The 10 Commandments are all about love.

The apostle Paul wrote, “Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:10).

Thank you,
God didn't spoke directly to the people but through angels and entrusted to a mediator (Moses) then to the people Galatians 3:19...

But, Jesus (God) spoke directly to the people himself as a mediator...

The love you express by following the 10commandments is your own love (human love) is Not the love that God desire (Agape)...

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Thank you @eleos1954,
I believe The "Sabbath Rest" hasn't changed at all only the day has changed...As in Hebrews 4:7..God then set a certain day calling it "today"...

We cannot enter into God's Rest on the 7th day as it says " they shall never enter My Rest"..Hebrews 4:5

I see the "Sabbath Rest" as a spiritual Rest or eternal Rest..not a physical or a weekly Rest..

Hi pasifika,

Hebrews 4 does not change the 4th commandment so we can choose and change the day to our preference over what God commanded, nor does it delete the 4th commandment, in fact it does the opposite it reinforces the Sabbath commandment

"He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works.' There remains therefore a rest ["keeping of a sabbath," margin] for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10). Direct reference to Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11

God changes not and there is no scripture that deletes God’s 4th commandment and the holy day of the Lord thy God, because God promised His Sabbath would be a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16 which we see that promise fulfilled for eternity Isaiah 66:23

You are reading into scripture to make it say what you want, versus what it is plainly saying. Today if you hear His voice don’t harden your heart, don’t put it off until tomorrow which does not say choose the day you want as your Sabbath and delete the commandment that God personally wrote with His own Finger and stored in the Most Holy of His temple.

It does not sound like we are going to come to an mutual understanding, God’s Sabbath commandment is so plainly written in my opinion and if God told me to keep holy Tuesday, that’s what I would do, but He choose the seventh day as the day that He blessed, sanctified and wants us to keep holy and once God blesses something you cannot reverse it. Numbers 23:20

 

[pasifika]

Hi pasifika,

Hebrews 4 does not change the 4th commandment so we can choose and change the day to our preference over what God commanded, nor does it delete the 4th commandment, in fact it does the opposite it reinforces the Sabbath commandment

"He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works.' There remains therefore a rest ["keeping of a sabbath," margin] for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10). Direct reference to Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11

God changes not and there is no scripture that deletes God’s 4th commandment and the holy day of the Lord thy God, because God promised His Sabbath would be a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16 which we see that promise fulfilled for eternity Isaiah 66:23

You are reading into scripture to make it say what you want, versus what it is plainly saying. Today if you hear His voice don’t harden your heart, don’t put it off until tomorrow which does not say choose the day you want as your Sabbath and delete the commandment that God personally wrote with His own Finger and stored in the Most Holy of His temple.

It does not sound like we are going to come to an mutual understanding, God’s Sabbath commandment is so plainly written in my opinion and if God told me to keep holy Tuesday, that’s what I would do, but He choose the seventh day as the day that He blessed, sanctified and wants us to keep holy and once God blesses something you cannot reverse it. Numbers 23:20

Hello
Hebrews 4 is not about the the 4th commandment which is reference God's Sabbath day (7th day) But the "people" Sabbath day ("today")...

God's Sabbath day is still 7th day in creation because He (God) was the only one who works on the six days..

The children of Israel whom God gave His Sabbath day (7th) to keep didn't enter into to His Rest as it say.."they shall never my rest"

Also, Hebrews 4:8..For if Joshua had given them rest, God would Not have spoken later about "another DAY"..

Hence, why a new day was spoken by God for "the people of God" to enter into His Rest that day is "Today"...(I think is a bit deep to understand what today's means in Hebrews)...
Just as everything in OT point to Christ so also our " Sabbath Rest" that's how I see it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hello
Hebrews 4 is not about the the 4th commandment which is reference God's Sabbath day (7th day) But the "people" Sabbath day ("today")...

God's Sabbath day is still 7th day in creation because He (God) was the only one who works on the six days..

The children of Israel whom God gave His Sabbath day (7th) to keep didn't enter into to His Rest as it say.."they shall never my rest"

Also, Hebrews 4:8..For if Joshua had given them rest, God would Not have spoken later about "another DAY"..

Hence, why a new day was spoken by God for "the people of God" to enter into His Rest that day is "Today"...(I think is a bit deep to understand what today's means in Hebrews)...
Just as everything in OT point to Christ so also our " Sabbath Rest" that's how I see it.

This passage is clearly talking about the two rests- the seventh day Sabbath rest and the gospel rest we receive when we obey. You might consider prayerfully reading, because there is only one truth in scriptures.

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

This passage clearly tells us that if we are to enter into the "rest in Jesus" we also cease from work as God did from His (see Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:8-11). This clearly tells us there are two different rests and we enter into that rest when we cease from work (keep the Sabbath) which is clear reference to the 4th commandment and the example God gave us from the very beginning by working six days and resting the seventh day because that is the day God blessed and sanctified from the very beginning.

Genesis 2:1-3 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Exodus 20:8-11 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

This passage Hebrews 4:10 clearly tells us those who enter into the rest in Christ also ceases from our work like God did in Genesis 2:1-3 than it goes on to say:

Hebrews 4: 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. The rest here means keeping of the Sabbath. GRT Hebrews 4:9 ara apoleipetai sabbatismos tô laô tou theou

apoleipetai means literally 'left behind' and sabbatismos in Greek literature always, 100% of the time, refers to seventh day sabbath-keeping; Sabbatismos means “seventh-day Sabbath keeping”.

Here are a few other translations:

Hebrews 4:9, NIV: "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;"

Hebrews 4:9, ESV: "So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,"

Hebrews 4:9, KJV: "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God."

Hebrews 4:9, NASB: "Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God."

Hebrews 4:9, NLT: "So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God."

Hebrews 4:9, CSB: "Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people."


Hebrews 4 tells us why some did not enter into Christs rest and the passage clearly explains why.

Hebrews 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,

What did they disobey?
Ezekiel 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths

We do not receive the gospel rest of Christ by disobeying the Sabbath commandment which Hebrews 4 clearly spells out. Here is another example- we do receive the blessings by Christ by our obedience. It's conditional.

Isaiah 58:13

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

God's seventh day Sabbath (4th commandment) has not ended as Jesus speaks about it as it would be kept even long after He ascended back to Heaven Matthew 24:20 and we see the promise of God that the Sabbath would be a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16 and it continues to be the Lord's chosen day of worship for eternity Isaiah 66:23

I would really consider the warning in Hebrews 4 because "Today" if you hear His voice don't harden your heart to the truth or put off until another day. The devil wants us to procrastinate from doing the will of God. Keeping the Sabbath commandment is God's will that is so plainly left for us to "Remember" from the very beginning Genesis 2:1-3 before sin and will continue as promised for ALL flesh after Jesus comes back and there will be no more sin Isaiah 66:23. If you hear this "Today" don't harden your heart.

God bless

 

[pasifika]

This passage is clearly talking about the two rests- the seventh day Sabbath rest and the gospel rest we receive when we obey. You might consider prayerfully reading, because there is only one truth in scriptures.

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

This passage clearly tells us that if we are to enter into the "rest in Jesus" we also cease from work as God did from His (see Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:8-11). This clearly tells us there are two different rests and we enter into that rest when we cease from work (keep the Sabbath) which is clear reference to the 4th commandment and the example God gave us from the very beginning by working six days and resting the seventh day because that is the day God blessed and sanctified from the very beginning.

Genesis 2:1-3 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Exodus 20:8-11 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

This passage Hebrews 4:10 clearly tells us those who enter into the rest in Christ also ceases from our work like God did in Genesis 2:1-3 than it goes on to say:

Hebrews 4: 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. The rest here means keeping of the Sabbath. GRT Hebrews 4:9 ara apoleipetai sabbatismos tô laô tou theou

apoleipetai means literally 'left behind' and sabbatismos in Greek literature always, 100% of the time, refers to seventh day sabbath-keeping; Sabbatismos means “seventh-day Sabbath keeping”.

Here are a few other translations:

Hebrews 4:9, NIV: "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;"

Hebrews 4:9, ESV: "So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,"

Hebrews 4:9, KJV: "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God."

Hebrews 4:9, NASB: "Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God."

Hebrews 4:9, NLT: "So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God."

Hebrews 4:9, CSB: "Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people."


Hebrews 4 tells us why some did not enter into Christs rest and the passage clearly explains why.

Hebrews 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,

What did they disobey?
Ezekiel 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths

We do not receive the gospel rest of Christ by disobeying the Sabbath commandment which Hebrews 4 clearly spells out. Here is another example- we do receive the blessings by Christ by our obedience. It's conditional.

Isaiah 58:13

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

God's seventh day Sabbath (4th commandment) has not ended as Jesus speaks about it as it would be kept even long after He ascended back to Heaven Matthew 24:20 and we see the promise of God that the Sabbath would be a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16 and it continues to be the Lord's chosen day of worship for eternity Isaiah 66:23

I would really consider the warning in Hebrews 4 because "Today" if you hear His voice don't harden your heart to the truth or put off until another day. The devil wants us to procrastinate from doing the will of God. Keeping the Sabbath commandment is God's will that is so plainly left for us to "Remember" from the very beginning Genesis 2:1-3 before sin and will continue as promised for ALL flesh after Jesus comes back and there will be no more sin Isaiah 66:23. If you hear this "Today" don't harden your heart.

God bless

Thank you
It's just One rest called " Sabbath Rest" in Hebrews 4..but there are 2 days (one is "7th day" where God Rest AND one is is where man will Rest called "TodAy")...

...therefore God set a certain day calling it "today"..

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Thank you
It's just One rest called " Sabbath Rest" in Hebrews 4..but there are 2 days (one is "7th day" where God Rest AND one is is where man will Rest called "TodAy")...

...therefore God set a certain day calling it "today"..

No, the Sabbath rest is not called "today" God literally spelled that out for us and we should not add to His Words.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

"Today" means if you hear His voice don't harden your heart and says nothing about that being the Sabbath day. You seem to be adding what you want to these clear scriptures.

We will have to agree to disagree.