One of The STRONGEST Arguments for The Sabbath ~

[Gregory Thompson]

So you claim the apostles are saying we are free now to worship other gods, vain God’s name, murder and steal? Surely you have read this chapter wrong. The chapter is referring to circumcision and not the commandments of God. I have to run for now, but you provide more details a little later.

Since you are providing the same arguments that Pauls opponents in Galatia were, I rest my case.

 

[Soyeong]

So that’s not yoke of bondage?

In 1 John 5:3, to love God is to obey His commandments, which are not burdensome, so they are not a yoke of bondage. In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is sin in transgression of God's law that puts us in bondage, while it is the truth that sets us free. The reason why God saved His people out of bondage in Egypt was not in order to put them under bondage to His law, but rather it is for freedom that God sets us free (Galatians 5:1), and God's law is a law of freedom (Psalms 119:45). Likewise, Jesus said his yoke was easy and his burden was light (Matthew 11:28-30).

Sunshinee777, Galatians 5 not talking in reference to the 10 Commandments at all. See, there are different sets of Laws in the Bible.

There is the 10 Commandment set (the Moral Law).

There are the Ceremonial Laws (those are all the laws that had to do with the Sanctuary and that pointed forward to the coming of Jesus....those are the Laws that were all nailed to the Cross when Jesus died for us....Christians don't keep the Ceremonial Laws any longer because they pointed FORWARD to the LAMB and when Jesus (THE LAMB) died for us, that was the end of those Laws.

The Health Laws is the 3rd set of Laws.

The ONLY Laws that we as Christians should no longer keep are the Ceremonial Laws. The 10 Commandments and the Health Laws are just as binding today as the day God gave them.

Take a minute and read Galatians 5 and you will see that it's not speaking about the 10 Commandments or the Health Laws, but rather it's all about circumcision (which was part of the Ceremonial Laws).

People are free to categorize God's laws however they want. For example, I could categorize God's laws based on which part of the body is most commonly used to obey/disobey them, such as the law against theft being a hand law, however, the fact that I could categorize God's laws in that manner does not establish that any of the authors of the Bible categorized them in the same manner, so if were to insert my categories back into the Bible in order to create my own doctrine, such as saying that Christians should no longer keep hand laws, then I would making the same error you are making. The problem is that the Bible never lists which laws are moral, ceremonial, or health laws, and never even refers to those as being categories of law.

For example, the laws that people consider to be ceremonial vary widely depending upon whom I ask, such as some people considering everything but the Ten Commandments being ceremonial, however, many of the laws other than the Ten Commandments have nothing in particular to do with ceremony or health, such as the laws against kidnapping or rape. Furthermore, saying that the Ten Commandments are the Moral Law implies that it is moral to disobey everything but the Ten Commandments, however, the Bible makes no attempt to distinguish between some laws as being moral or not, and I see no justification for thinking that it can ever be moral to disobey God.

In regard to Colossians 2:14, it is not speaking about any laws being nailed to the cross, but about our penalty for transgressing God's law being nailed to the cross and about Jesus dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins. As followers of Christ, we should live in a way that points towards him by obeying the laws that do that. The only way that a law can no longer be in effect is if what it teaches us about Christ's eternal nature is no longer true.

Soyeong, I am not familiar with these two terms - "the mishpatim and the chukim." Are they mentioned in the Bible? What are they?

God's laws are generally divided in the categories of mishpatim, chukim, and edot. Mishpatim are laws that govern our relationship with our neighbor, which straightforwardly make sense, which are based on the principle of loving our neighbor as ourselves, and which are often found in common among most civilized societies, such as laws against theft and murder. The chuckim are laws that govern our relationship with God, which don't straightforwardly make sense why God commanded, which the only reason to follow them is that they are God's will, and which almost invite us to ponder what God was teaching us about Himself by giving them, such as the law against mixing wool and linen. Furthermore, the laws where we don't understand why God commanded something are where we have the greatest opportunity to express our faith in God by obeying them. The Edot are intended to remind us of certain events, such as the Sabbath and Passover. None of these categories used by the Bible carry the connotation of some laws being moral while others are not.

 

[Soyeong]

There has to be some misunderstanding somewhere ...

because the same Paul who in Romans 3 says we're not under the law, and who also in Romans 3 says:

“No one can ever be made right in God’s sight by doing what his law commands… We are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law… There is only one way of being accepted by him. He makes people right with Himself only by faith.” (vs. 20, 28 ,30)

then finishes the chapter by saying--in no uncertain terms:

"Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.” {Romans 3:31 NASB}

(All translations have Paul making it very clear that faith doesn't do away with the law.)

“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” {Romans 3:31 KJV}

“So do we destroy the law by following the way of faith? No! Faith causes us to be what the law truly wants.” {Romans 3:31 NCV}

“Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of Course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.” {Romans 3:31 NLT}

(I think it's obvious that Paul saw what people were going to do--think that he was doing away with the law because of what he said earlier in chapter 3--and met it in verse 31.)

The issue is that Paul spoke about multiple categories of law other than the Law of God, such as works of the law and the law of sin, so it is important to correctly identity which law he was referring to us as not being under. For example, in Romans 3:27, he contrasted a law of works with the law of faith, and in Romans 7:25, he contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin. In Roman 6:14, Paul described the law that we are not under as being a law where sin had dominion over us, which does not describe the Law of God, which is a law where holiness, righteousness, and goodness have dominion over us (Romans 7:12), but rather it is the law of sin where sin had dominion over us. Furthermore, in Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and sin is the transgression of the Law of God (1 John 3:4), so we are still under the Law of God and obligated to obey it.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

think about it

Why would that matter? It is still not a salvation issue for neither Jew or Gentile.

...why would Paul be saying that to GENTILES??

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

That is possibly the strangest comment I've ever read on this subject. The Law's purpose was to lead us to Christ. No one gets saved by observing the Law. I could not recite the 10 commandments before I got saved.
Romans 2:12-16
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous. Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel.

I did not need to know the 10 commandments. I'm not sure I could recite them from memory now, apart from the first two.

The question for believers is, are you obeying God in your heart? That's where His will is revealed and His guidance given. And only by the power of the Lord Jesus within can we obey God anyway. God's commandments are for external obedience. The Sermon on the Mount makes it clear that God is looking for much more than that. And external obedience is not enough to save anyone.

I never said it would...but you did not answer the question...

 

[Aussie Pete]

I never said it would...but you did not answer the question...

Grace is required whether or not there is law. Romans 1 makes that much clear.

 

[The Narrow Way]

Duplicate

 

[The Narrow Way]

In 1 John 5:3, to love God is to obey His commandments, which are not burdensome, so they are not a yoke of bondage. In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is sin in transgression of God's law that puts us in bondage, while it is the truth that sets us free. The reason why God saved His people out of bondage in Egypt was not in order to put them under bondage to His law, but rather it is for freedom that God sets us free (Galatians 5:1), and God's law is a law of freedom (Psalms 119:45). Likewise, Jesus said his yoke was easy and his burden was light (Matthew 11:28-30).



People are free to categorize God's laws however they want. For example, I could categorize God's laws based on which part of the body is most commonly used to obey/disobey them, such as the law against theft being a hand law, however, the fact that I could categorize God's laws in that manner does not establish that any of the authors of the Bible categorized them in the same manner, so if were to insert my categories back into the Bible in order to create my own doctrine, such as saying that Christians should no longer keep hand laws, then I would making the same error you are making. The problem is that the Bible never lists which laws are moral, ceremonial, or health laws, and never even refers to those as being categories of law.

For example, the laws that people consider to be ceremonial vary widely depending upon whom I ask, such as some people considering everything but the Ten Commandments being ceremonial, however, many of the laws other than the Ten Commandments have nothing in particular to do with ceremony or health, such as the laws against kidnapping or rape. Furthermore, saying that the Ten Commandments are the Moral Law implies that it is moral to disobey everything but the Ten Commandments, however, the Bible makes no attempt to distinguish between some laws as being moral or not, and I see no justification for thinking that it can ever be moral to disobey God.

In regard to Colossians 2:14, it is not speaking about any laws being nailed to the cross, but about our penalty for transgressing God's law being nailed to the cross and about Jesus dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins. As followers of Christ, we should live in a way that points towards him by obeying the laws that do that. The only way that a law can no longer be in effect is if what it teaches us about Christ's eternal nature is no longer true.



God's laws are generally divided in the categories of mishpatim, chukim, and edot. Mishpatim are laws that govern our relationship with our neighbor, which straightforwardly make sense, which are based on the principle of loving our neighbor as ourselves, and which are often found in common among most civilized societies, such as laws against theft and murder. The chuckim are laws that govern our relationship with God, which don't straightforwardly make sense why God commanded, which the only reason to follow them is that they are God's will, and which almost invite us to ponder what God was teaching us about Himself by giving them, such as the law against mixing wool and linen. Furthermore, the laws where we don't understand why God commanded something are where we have the greatest opportunity to express our faith in God by obeying them. The Edot are intended to remind us of certain events, such as the Sabbath and Passover. None of these categories used by the Bible carry the connotation of some laws being moral while others are not.

Hmmm....I've never heard of those terms, never seen them in the Bible...I guess, like you say, people can categorize the laws any way they want.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Except no one can keep them. Lord Jesus came that we might have real life, not slavery to a set of rules that we can't obey anyway. Ask King David how much the law helped him when he set eyes on Bathsheba having a bath.

Did King David repent of his sin? You might want to keep reading….how long did King David repent?

God would not ask us to do something we cannot keep. What you seem to be implying is that the devil is greater at tempting us than our God, who gives us the Holy Spirit so we can obey God’s laws. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The sabbath was made for man - God's wisdom for our needs. The NT does not prescribe a day and hardly mentions the Sabbath. It's been replaced with "The Lord's Day", not the same thing. Everyone needs a day off once a week. It's not always possible, and God knows that. When I was in the military, I worked for 3 weeks straight with 4 hours sleep a night. By the law, I should have been stoned to death. Instead, God let me sleep for 18 hours at the end of the 3 weeks.

The Sabbath is mention close to 60 times in the New Testament, but should that matter- does God need to repeat Himself for one to obey? In the New Testament it shows that the Sabbath commandment is still be to be kept Luke 56:23, Hebrews 4:9 and shows Jesus going to the church on the Sabbath day as it was His custom Luke 4:16 as well as the disciples Acts 18:4. Yes, the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and man was created on the six day Genesis 1:26 and the very next day was the very first Sabbath. Genesis 2:1-3. The Sabbath was created before sin and the seventh day Sabbath is God’s holy day period Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13 and God wants us to keep holy the same day that He does. Exodus 20:8. God gives us free will so when He comes again the Sabbath will continue to be His holy day for worship Isaiah 66:23 if people are so opposed to keeping the Sabbath holy now, what makes one think you will want to on the New Earth?

The Lords day is never mentioned as the first day in scripture. The first day has never been blessed by God, sanctified or made holy. God told us the first day is a working day, not a holy day Exodus 20:9 God claimed the day that is holy to Him VERY CLEARLY Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13. Sunday keeping is not a commandment of God but Sabbath keeping is. Exodus 20:8-11 Jesus warns us about worshipping in vain keeping traditions, which is Sunday keeping over the commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9. I would consider this warning.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus came to fulfilled the Righteous requirements of law so we can have God's Righteousness through Him..

Jesus said to John the Baptist in His baptism..Matthew 3:15.." let it be so now, it is proper for us to do this to fulfilled all righteousness"..

The law (10) does not change our evil hearts is just shows it that we have evil hearts..

But, the Spirit change our evil hearts (sanctification through Faith) but also gives us eternal life...Romans

This is where the New Covenant comes in, God’s laws written in our hearts and minds, Jesus wants us changed from the inside out starting with our thoughts. If we eliminate the thoughts on lusting after someone or eliminate the anger in our hearts we can fulfill the commandments out of love. If they are fulfilled out of love than we are not going to commit adultery or commit murder and this same concept applies to all Ten of God’s commandments. If one finds that they are breaking God’s law, they have a love problem, that I would seek the Physician (Jesus) and ask Him to help overcome this love problem. Jesus said IF you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I believe the sabbath command is observed by those who rest in Christ. The OT way of observing Sabbath was just a shadow of what was to come. Sabbath was a day off for man and beast but it was a shadow of Gods eternal rest which he entered into after creation. God rested from His works on Sabbath, its final and eternal rest unless I'm mistaken. And our sabbath rest eternal.

Maybe you can provide where it says that Jesus is our Sabbath? There is no scripture.

Jesus provides the gospel rest for those who obey the Sabbath commandment. We are blessed when we obey and not when we disobey. The Israelites never received the gospel rest Hebrews 4:6 because they disobey the Sabbath commandment. Ezekiel 20:13 The same applies today. Jesus showed us as our example how to keep the Sabbath all throughout the New Testament which included going to Church on the seventh day Sabbath reading God’s Word. Luke 4:16 as well as the disciples Acts 18:4 God bless

 

[Soyeong]

Hmmm....I've never heard of those terms, never seen them in the Bible...I guess, like you say, people can categorize the laws any way they want.

Those are Hebrew words used by the Bible for different categories of law:

H4941 - mišpāṭ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

H2708 - ḥuqqâ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Since you are providing the same arguments that Pauls opponents in Galatia were, I rest my case.

Are we reading the same chapter? Acts 15 is clearly talking about Circumcision which is in the law of Moses and not in the Ten Commandments.

Acts 1:1 15 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses,you cannot be saved.


Acts 15: 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

Again, Acts 15 is not talking about God’s Ten Commandments and Paul tells us this very clearly that the commandments of God has not been “eliminated”

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters

 

[Leaf473]

"If ye love Me, KEEP My Commandments." John 14:15.

The Sabbath is the 4th Commandment, nestled in amongst the other 9. It is the ONLY one of all 10 that uses the word REMEMBER. Do you think it's maybe because God KNEW those who claim to be His followers would FORGET to keep it, so He gave them an extra reminder...and said, "REMEMBER the Sabbath Day to KEEP it Holy."

It all boils down to whether or not we LOVE God. If we LOVE Him, we'll do what He says. If we don't do what He says, it's proof our LOVE is not what it should be.

Hi, The Narrow Way,

Nice to meet you. I don't believe we have interacted before.

Your post sounds good so far: if we love Jesus, keep his commandments.

And here's a commandment, Remember the Sabbath day.

Where I think the issue comes in as I've discussed this with other people is what are the other commandments? I'm especially interested in if you have a list of those other commandments.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi, The Narrow Way,

Nice to meet you. I don't believe we have interacted before.

Your post sounds good so far: if we love Jesus, keep his commandments.

And here's a commandment, Remember the Sabbath day.

Where I think the issue comes in as I've discussed this with other people is what are the other commandments? I'm especially interested in if you have a list of those other commandments.

You missed part of the sentence to make it complete- let me help you

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

The commandment goes on to to say:

Exodus 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Previously you stated you thought we no longer needed to keep the commandments, I am glad you changed you mind about that.

God bless

 

[Leaf473]

Rahab lied about where the spies were - Her actions were commended.

Great example of someone doing the will of God and not keeping the letter of the commandment at the same time.

 

[Bob S]

Bob, I've read the Bible quite a few times, and the ONLY thing handed down to Moses from God on Mount Sinai was the 10 Commandments written with God's own finger on TABLES OF STONE.... (Implying they do not change).

Oh! well where did the other 603 laws come from? God wrote some with His finger and some He spoke. Is His finger anymore sacred than His voice? I believe your theory that because somehow His writing commands on stone does not allow them to change is not scriptural. Paul surely thought they did, in 2Cor 3:6-11 Paul tells us that indeed the 10 commandments, called the ministry of death written and engraven in stones, have been done away, verse 11. KJV All mankind are under the new and better covenant. The old covenant ceased to be for whom it was given (Israel) when Jesus ratified the new covenant with His own blood at Calvary. We are all partakers of the Good News. Thank you Jesus.

 

[Bob S]

You missed part of the sentence to make it complete- let me help you

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

The commandment goes on to to say:

Exodus 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Previously you stated you thought we no longer needed to keep the commandments, I am glad you changed you mind about that.

God bless

Why are you beating around the bush? Just answer his/her question. If you are correct in your posts then it would seem you could rattle off all the commands we are supposedly to have to keep.

 

[Leaf473]

You missed part of the sentence to make it complete- let me help you

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

The commandment goes on to to say:

Exodus 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Previously you stated you thought we no longer needed to keep the commandments, I am glad you changed you mind about that.

God bless

As we talked about before, where the verses are is a human tradition. Where sentences are broken up is a translator's choice. But no big deal, did you want to talk about the thrust of my post? What those other commandments are?

I don't believe I have changed my thinking. I have probably changed or adopted how I talk about what I think in order to hopefully improve communication.

What the OP wrote does sound good, so far...