Once saved, always saved?

[HereIStand]

...
As so often in theology, we find there are "two sides of the coin." To ME, the approach is NOT to take all the Scriptures, subject them to our limited, fallable, sinful, human "LOGIC" and force them to "fit" and "make sense" to US. To ME, the approach is to accept both "sets" of scriptures at their face value and allow them to stand in all their truth and power just as God inspired them.

The approach, then, is in how to APPLY them rather than in how to force them to fit together according to our fallible, limited logic. Not in accepting one "set" and explaining away the other in the light of it.

That's a good way of looking at things. There is a sense in which we can't arrive at an airtight logical understanding of Scripture.

Take though these two verses:

"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." (Romans 3:28)

"You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone." (James 2:24)

Is Romans 3:28 Gospel and James 2:24 Law? Should we take these verses at face value and not try to use reason or logic to resolve the tension between them?

In his book Knowing Scripture, R.C. Sproul notes that Romans 3:28 uses justify in the sense of restoring "to a state of reconciliation with God those who stand under judgment of his Law." While justify is used in James 2:24 in the sense of the "claim to faith is vindicated or justified when it is manifested by the fruit of faith, namely, works."

 

[Montalban]

no, I think people don't typically see the forest for the trees.

There it is!

I was looking for a truism.

 

[Rick Otto]

You're not MamaZ, but you don't want to answer it either. Fair enough. It's okay that people such as yourself make comments about EO canon, when it was formed, what books it contains, what books it ought not contain etc. But when I ask you about your canon you don't answer.

I don't have a canon. I'm still investigating the Apocrypha & I want to see a chronological arrangement of the books. I see no need to defend a canon. Defend truth.

 

[Montalban]

I don't have a canon. I'm still investigating the Apocrypha & I want to see a chronological arrangement of the books. I see no need to defend a canon. Defend truth.

I've not seen you quote Maccabees or Tobit in arguing against some error.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I've not seen you quote Maccabees or Tobit in arguing against some error.

Just out of curiosity, could you provide a link to a post where you quoed either from I or II Maccabees or Tobit in arguing against some error?

 

[Hannah64]

this has probably been posted many times during this thread,but here goes.

And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish. NEITHER SHALL ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND. My father which gave them me is greater than all. AND NO MAN IS ABLE TO PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY FATHER'S HAND. I and my father are one.

John 10:28 - 30

 

[Hannah64]

That's a good way of looking at things. There is a sense in which we can't arrive at an airtight logical understanding of Scripture.

Take though these two verses:

"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." (Romans 3:28)

"You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone." (James 2:24)

Is Romans 3:28 Gospel and James 2:24 Law? Should we take these verses at face value and not try to use reason or logic to resolve the tension between them?

In his book Knowing Scripture, R.C. Sproul notes that Romans 3:28 uses justify in the sense of restoring "to a state of reconciliation with God those who stand under judgment of his Law." While justify is used in James 2:24 in the sense of the "claim to faith is vindicated or justified when it is manifested by the fruit of faith, namely, works."

Hi ,the thing is though that Jesus has set us free from sin and death,the law leads to death.So if Jesus set us free from the law there is no need for works which is the law.

 

[The Beautiful Heresy]

This is a question that has been doing some rounds. Once a person is saved, is that for an eternity? Or can a person loose their salvation, if so, how?

No, you can't lose your salvation. Jesus paid for it, not you.

It is called the gift of Grace that was imparted on us whether we agree it was done or not, it was done and it is finished.

He paid for all the sins of the world and salvation of all men. You can't undo what Christ has done nor more than you can undo what Adam did.

 

[Montalban]

Just out of curiosity, could you provide a link to a post where you quoed either from I or II Maccabees or Tobit in arguing against some error?

I'm always happy to answer questions, even if I don't understand why they're directed towards me, for I'm not the one making a claim that I don't care about a canon, but at the same time never quoting from particular texts.

However last year I referred to Maccabees as authentic a source of history, here

I've also corrected people on Sirach, such as here and here in relation to views on women.

Here I used Tobit, Wisdom and others to show that they parallel the New Testament

Did you have a point? Are you going to challenge RickOtto to the same? He's the one claiming he doesn't care about the canon. If he doesn't, then he should care about citing from those texts.... if they're 'truth' (and that is, after-all the important point)

 

[Brother Jason]

Howeverl last year I referred to Maccabees as authentic a source of history, here

I know this has nothing to do with the topic, but I love 1 and 2 Maccabees! Although not very instructive they give a detailed look into an era that the bible is pretty much silent about.

 

[Montalban]

I know this has nothing to do with the topic, but I love 1 and 2 Maccabees! Although not very instructive they give a detailed look into an era that the bible is pretty much silent about.

wasn't there a film...?

"I heart Maccabees"?

 

[Rick Otto]

He's the one claiming he doesn't care about the canon

Isn't that a lie?
Please show where I said I didn't care about "the" canon (again you speak as if there is only one).
And after you can't show me saying I don't care about the canon, please apologize for again misrepresenting me & distorting my views.

 

[BibleDave]

Judas.

 

[Blind As A Bat]

Judas.

Judas?

 

[Rick Otto]

Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

 

[Montalban]

Isn't that a lie?
Please show where I said I didn't care about "the" canon (again you speak as if there is only one).
And after you can't show me saying I don't care about the canon, please apologize for again misrepresenting me & distorting my views.

See questions posed to you on Scripture and Tradition thread.

 

[BibleDave]

Judas?

I just posted the first thing that came to mind. Hopefully you look it up and check out his case. It might help a little.

 

[Blind As A Bat]

I just posted the first thing that came to mind. Hopefully you look it up and check out his case. It might help a little.

I know who Judas is, are you implying someone is like him?

 

[BibleDave]

I know who Judas is, are you implying someone is like him?

I assumed you knew him I just wanted you to ask yourself if he went to heaven. Wasn't it he that was crucified upside down?

 

[Blind As A Bat]

I assumed you knew him I just wanted you to ask yourself if he went to heaven. Wasn't it he that was crucified upside down?

If I recall correctly, Judas hung himself.