Sure ben here we go...
"Col1:21-23" Ummm...no where do I see in this passage about loosing your salvation. It
just talks about not falling away from doing what is right, ie fufilling what God has
planned for you.
So, you believe in "Carnal Christianity", where someone can FALL AWAY from God, walk in sin continually, but they will
still be saved???
"Gal5:4" Umm..if you are justifiing yourself by the law, then you are never saved in the
first place. Just read 2:26 This doesn't say anything about loosing your salvation
when you read the book of galatians and take this verse in context.
Uhhhmmmm, sorry,
YES IT DOES... To be "severed from Christ", you must first be "IN Christ". To be "fallen from grace", you must first be "IN GRACE". The key is 5:1, where Paul is admonishing them-who-have-been-saved, to not return to a yoke of slavery (law)...
"1Tim4:1"
umm...where does that say loose your salvation? If you abandon your faith, was it God
given? Nope hence not REAL faith. What is Paul talking about here? He is talking
about mixing of the message with worldly things. He is talking about correcting others to
keep them right with God. Read verse 7.
"Heb2:1-3, 3:12-14"
The first passage in chapter 2 talks about drifting away not loosing your salvation, in
other words becoming a useless soldier in God's army. Again in the second passage it
is refering to the same thing. You can be rebelous when you're a christian, that doesn't
mean you loose your faith, if its true faith.
Back to the "carnal-but-SAVED-thing again, huh? What then, exactly, is "True Faith"???
"2Pet2:20-22 " This is refering to people who hear the message but turn away from it.
That is not talking about loosing salvation either
There is no passage in the Bible that more clearly speaks of
saved Christians who "lose" their salvation. Let's look at 2Peter 1:1-4. I'm counting on you actually looking this passage up. These have "apofuego-escaped" the corruption that is in the world by lust, through the "epignosis-true-knowledge" of Jesus. Can we agree that
these are SAVED??? Now look at 2:2:14. The "false ones
never cease from sinning". Never. They are NOT SAVED. But they seek to entice the "Ontos-Apofuego-TRULY-ESCAPED" into sin, verse 18. These "truly escaped" are escaped by the "
EPIGNOSIS-TRUE-KNOWLEDGE-of-the-LORD-and-SAVIOR-JESUS-CHRIST" verse 20. They are SAVED. BUt in verses 20-22, they are "again entangled in the defilements of the world and overcome, the second state is worse than the first." What was their first state?
UNSAVED. Now they are
WORSE THAN THAT. "Far better to have never KNOWN (epignosis variant) the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed to them..." They turned from the holy commandment, and became worse than before they were saved.. .
But you believe THEY ARE STILL SAVED!!! I don't know what to do. I am commanded to love and not condemn, to admonish and not engage in factions and dissentions, to build and not destroy. How do I answer this with honor, respectfully? It seems clear that you deny the very words that Peter wrote. How can I argue further? If you do not accept what Scripture plainly says,
then I have no argument for you...
"James 5:19-20 " Umm..nothing about loosing salvation here either. It talks about
turning a sinner. Now read what the passage is all about in verse 15. It talks about a
sinner asking for forgivness of their sins, Christians do that, that doesn't mean they
loose salvation. There is no implication of a death being death in hell.
Actually, yes there is. The Greek here for "soul" is "psuche", exactly as John uses in Rev20:4 to speak of "eternal spirits". "Death" here is "thanatos", which absolutely carries the meaning of "physical death with implication of eternity in Hell". Contrast this with James 2:26, where "spirit" is "pneuma", and "death" is "nekros"...
"2Jn2:8-9 " In verse 8 it is talking about working in christ. In verse 9 he is switching topics
in a way. He isn't refering to the same people. Still again no mention of loosing salvation.
On..on a side not, 2nd John only has one chapter so I asuumed you ment 1:8-9 and not
2:8-9.
Yes I meant chapter 1. No mention of "losing salvation"? You believe you can have salvation "but not have God"? Not according to 1Jn5:12. And to say that he
"switched topics" between the two sentences, is exactly the argument that Jehovah's Witnesses use to answer Thomas's declaration, "MY LORD AND MY GOD!" Jn20:28 JWs have you believe he was calling Jesus "LORD" and Jehovah "GOD". Doesn't work in context. Some groups think Jesus "jumped context" in Jn3:5, to indicate "water-baptism". But contextually, it says: "Water/flesh", and "spirit/Spirit"...
"And Heb 6, "It is impossible to restore them to repentance WHILE THEY ARE FALLING
AWAY"
Yes but as 1 John puts it, "We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin'the
one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. We sin,
but they are forgiven already, it was taken care of at the cross. We cannot loose our
salvation once we have it.
You're obviously quoting from 1Jn5, especially verse 18. You have neglected to read the first of that chapter. "WHoever believes Jesus is born of God. Whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe (do) His commandments. ....(4) For whatever is born of God overcomes the world and this is the victory that has overcome the world,
OUR FAITH. And who is the one who overcomes the world but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?" He who is born of God, is he who BELIEVES. Is there any verse that says one cannot stop believing? No.
I have written a book, intended for publishing on "OSAS". I cite Scripture after Scripture. But it seems that some people will not believe the very words of the Bible. As we have just seen here---very clear meanings, total denial. Is it ME that has misunderstood? I do not think so. A good case can be made for OSAS with some specific Scriptures, like the ones that seem to say "predestined-election"; but when the Bible is taken in its entirity, OSAS just is not there. "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that (faith) is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works lest anyone boast". Is that what Ephesians 2 says? "Faith-unto-salvation is a unilateral gift from God? The prepositional phrase is, "DIA PISTIS". Through faith. What is the
subject of the sentence? The subject, is "God's free gift of grace". The three phrases ("<subject> through faith", "<subject> not of yourselves", and "<subject> not as a result of works"), all modify the one subject, "God's free gift of grace". There is only one way to read this: "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that (grace) is not of yourselves, it is the free gift of God". Otherwise, Paul would be contradicting himself when he says in Rom10:17, "Faith comes by HEARING (the word of God)". And Peter, in 1:1:9, "obtaining as the outcome of
YOUR FAITH the salvation of your souls"!
The subject of this post, is "what is salvation?" This is really the heart of our discussion. Can one who says "the sinner's prayer" be saved? Yes. Can one who says "the sinner's prayer" NOT be saved? Yes. Salvation is a state of HEART. In a nutshell, salvation is fellowship with/in/through Jesus. 1Jn1:6 Which is, identically, "born again", which is identically "abiding in Jesus and His teachings". So that we see that salvation is not a work or works, and it is certainly not a one-time-event.
Salvation is a
life-long-walk.
And it is very possible to "NOT abide in Him, and fall from salvation". I shall post more Scriptures if anyone wishes; I would ask, that he who supports "OSAS" strive to contradict the points I make, Scripturally, just as I have striven to support them, Scripturally. Do we not agree that the Bible is inspired by God, and "all Scripture is GOD-BREATHED, and suitable for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thorougly equipped for every good work"? 2Tim3