That is saying that any non-chrsitian murderer doe snot know right form wrong. That anyone who rejects God is not wring in thier sin. Don;t beleive that lie you just said in the previous post.
Any non-Christian murderer does not know right from wrong.
If he did, he would know that killing another does not solve his problem.
Im not sure what you mean by that next sentence, but no one can know the truth and reject God. It is not knowing the truth but thinking that we do that is the whole problem.
Knowing right from Wroing will not save you. Knowing who Chrsit is and why He came to eareth will not save you.
That is what righteousness is
.knowing right from wrong. We cant know that without wisdom. Wisdom comes from God. Just believing what God says even without understanding it is enough to be counted as righteousness---
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
2Cr 8:12 For if there be first a willing mind, [it is] accepted according to that a man hath, [and] not according to that he hath not.
If it did, Satan would be a born again Christian. Satan knows right from wrong. Satan knows Jesus Christ.
Satan does not have wisdom
..therefore, he cannot know right from wrong. Is he not wrong in believing that he prevail against God?
Knowing right from wrong does not save a person.
Knowing right from wrong is the same as knowing the truth.
Jhn 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Knowing the truth is knowing Gods Word.
Knowing Gods Word is knowing God.
That is what eternal life is.
Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
But in your analogy, you equated a man to a seed...
"Man decides his salvation...to the same extent that a seed decides to grow." A seed does not decide to grow.. and thus you seem to think that a man doe snot decide to accept salvation. I wholeheartily disagree with that statement. A man does know, unlike this "see" of yours, and a man must decide.
Right. A man does not decide to accept salvation. His redemption draws nigh to him. God is the one who works in man to will and to do His good pleasure. Nope, man cannot take one shred of credit for anything to do with his salvation. Maybe some willingly wade into the fire to be baptized with fire and the Holy Ghost, but they dont come out any more refined than those who get thrown in.
Knowing the truth that God loves me. (This knowledge will not save me.)
Knowing that God loves you is part of the process. That is only part of the truth. You shall know the whole truth
..in His time.
God presents Himself to me, that I might know Him. (This does not save me.)
God doesnt present Himself to you. God reveals Himself through His Word.
.but knowing Him is eternal life
..knowing Him is what saves you.
Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
God does, so that I might choose to follow him. And in choosing to follow Him, I accept the Gift of salvation. (That is what saves me.
You cant even choose to follow Him unless He draws you
..and when He draws you, He will real you in like a fish with a hook in his jaw.
To save myself? No I can't. To accept the salvation? I must believe and have faith.
No, you cant do anything to save yourself. You will not see salvation until you believe and have faith---but thats Gods doing toonot yours.
Ture, and I agree. BUt if I do not want salvation, God will not give it to me.
Salvation is already yours. He will give you the desire so that you will see it.
These is a difference between wanting us to accept Salvation and forcing us to acept salvation. He could will the later, but out of love, He wills the former. His will for us to be saved is part of His will that we choose Him.
Right. God does not force us to accept salvation. He causes us to want it.
A mother doesnt force her baby to go to sleep
.but she knows how to get him to fall asleep----there are gentle ways
.rocking, singing, etc., and then theres just letting him protest in tears until he is so exhausted he falls asleep. No force involved.
"God wills that none should perish" is not saying that no man will perish becasue God doe snot want man to perish.
This does.
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
What it is saying is that GOd wants us to choose to Love Him an choose salvation. God will not force us into that choice, however. The Bible and God specifically is very clear that there will be those who reject God. This doe snot mean they have overcome the will of God. This means they have rejected God, even though He still wills for them not to. The Bible is also clear that Though God wills that none shall perish.. one day he will harden the hearts of possibly billions of poeple, and they will then miss thier chance at salvation.
I explained that God does not use force. He doesnt have to.
Yes, there will be those who reject God
the natural man cannot receive anything spiritual. Thats the reason the natural man is destroyed. The seed body cant receive lifethats the reason it is destroyed so the embryo can come out of it.
Psa 103:9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep [his anger] for ever.
No. God did not force Saul to choose salvation. If God said "I don;t care if you want ot be saved or not, I am going to anyway... that would be wrong. If a man rejects God, God will not save Him.
Right. See, how God gets His will done without using force?
Saul not only rejected God, but was killing those who had received Him. (Saul had his own idea of who God was and he served that idea.)
God saved Saul.
Without our choice to Love God, our reason for existance does not exist.
Its not your reason that matters. Its Gods. He has a purpose. He is fulfilling it. When you see it, you will realize His purpose for you. You will rejoice and be glad.
God made us for one reason only: To love Him. After the fall, that ability waqs lost to us, and is only available through Him. Our reason for existing is still to Love God, but as you said, we can;t do that on our own. For some, they qwill never Love God as He loves Us. They won't becasue they will never accept the Love He gives us in the first place.
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
If God wanted to create a robot, then why didn;t he? God gave us the ability to choose. The ability to freely accept or reject Him. He did so, so that we woulf accept Him or our freewill, not His. That ois God's will: that we use our freewill over our lives to accept Him and give our lives to him.
God never surrendered His will to man.
Free will? The natural man cannot accept him.
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
Thats the reason that the law doesnt even apply to him.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Remember, the law is spiritual.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
You will accept Him of your own free will. You will be set free so that you will accept Him. He will break the power of your will that opposes His, and His will will be done.
No. But it is not God;'s will that I be saved, if I don't want o be. It is God;'s wil that I be saved. If I do not want salvation, He will grant me my choice, even though He doe snot will it. I cannot change his will. I can change the outcome of where I will end up.
Gods will does not vary with mans will.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Hmm.. me personally? no I do not. Also, if you mean by siccessful, as denying GOd, rejecting God's gift of salvation, and on day going to Hell, away from the presence of God for eternity, then Yes I think a man has the option in his future. BUt rejecting God is already the path man is headed. Man doe snot choose death.. death is man's nature. It is man;'s inaction of acceptin salvation, both willingly, and not, that will get him to hell, despite God's desire that Man should be would be saved. At the very last second.. God will not say "..well, I know you have rejected me gift of salvation, and i know you deserve Hell becasue of that, but.. what the heck, even though you don;t want me, I will force you to Love me."
No one can oppose God and be successful in it. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. Death is destroyed by inducing life.
God will alloow those who do not choose to follow Him to be damned for eternity. He has to. The damned are, by nature, evil, and sinful, and canot exist with God. If they do not accept the salvation form that Death, they have no where else to go.
God is omnipresent. All things exist with God. Where there is sin, that existence is one of strife, but God will not always strive with man because mans nature will be changed as he is refined.
We have to allow God? Do you honestly think God needs permission to do what He wants to with His creation?
Specifically mankind? And specifically to being saved form our nature? Yes.
What you are saying is that your word rulesnot Gods. All you have to do is say no, and your word makes the difference. You are not your own. You are bought with a price.
God gave me that power as a man to make my own decisions.
No, you cant decide to accept spiritual life. It is impossible for the natural man to receive anything from God. (Verse already cited.)
Yes, I was... but, inthe context of this debate, specifically, my reservation to salvation was bought with a price... but I must still show up for dinner. You see.. the onse who were bought are the ones that will choose to accept Salvation. NOw, Chrsit death was for all to have that option of salvation.. but only those who acepot salvation will be / were / are bought. The rest, though the reservation for their life was made, will simply not show up to claim it. This doe not invalidate the work Jesus did for them and for thier life, but it does invalidate the fullfillment of that work for their life.
God sent His Word to save the world. His word will not return to Him void but will accomplish all that it was sent forth to do. So much for invalidating the fulfillment of that work in anyones life.
Does that verse refer to a Chrstian? Or to both a Christian and a non-Christian? he worls is full of temples.. but the One true GOd is not always worshipped in them. As it is with us. Only those who invite Chrsit into thier life, are temples of God. The rest are hollow shells of dirt.
Gods Word is spiritual. The body is the temple of God. God is no respecter of persons. Every natural man will be destroyed just as the seed body is destroyed when the dormant embryo is quickened to life. When that body of death is destroyed, life will emerge, growing as it feeds off of the carcass.