Ohio governor signs bill allowing armed school employees

[HARK!]

No, I think people can lose their mind when it comes to kids.

A person who is predisposed to losing his mind, over the behavior of a child, should not be left alone with children.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

As an Ohioan who's followed this story a bit...I thought they could already be armed, but the bill he signed just lowered the number of training hours required?

Gov. Mike DeWine signs bill slashing training requirements to arm teachers in schools

 

[ThatRobGuy]

RIght because that's what we need in schools is MORE guns.

To be perfectly frank, even as a "gun fan", I'm not crazy about the idea of making it easier for guns to be in schools...

That being said, the "ying" to that "yang" is that whenever a school shooting scenario happens, does anyone ever say "well, thank god that the shooter was the only one with a gun, that could've been a lot worse"?

I also think the blowback is a bit of an overreaction...as the teachers who weren't interested when carrying before aren't likely to be interested now. It's still voluntary, it's just a reduced number of training hours. (and most of the training was just repetitive anyway)

 

[Pommer]

A person who is predisposed to losing his mind, over the behavior of a child, should not be left alone with children.

It would appear that @CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN was speaking more along the lines of “we have to save the children from this satanic ritual abuse”, (which was “a thing” back in the late ‘80s to early ‘90s.)

Whatever children of this (or that generation) grows up with is their “normal”.
Baby boomers grew up with an American economic hegemony and expected that to continue while they cut taxes.
Gen Xer’s grew up in the chaos of the BB’s having children of their own.
Millennials don’t (largely) remember “land lines”.
Gen Z will witness enormous changes in our society; when they come into power (mid century) they’ll going to look at the exact turmoil we are currently in, and work hard to never have that happen again. How they go about achieving that goal will be interesting.

 

[HARK!]

It would appear that @CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN was speaking more along the lines of “we have to save the children from this satanic ritual abuse”, (which was “a thing” back in the late ‘80s to early ‘90s.)

Whatever children of this (or that generation) grows up with is their “normal”.
Baby boomers grew up with an American economic hegemony and expected that to continue while they cut taxes.
Gen Xer’s grew up in the chaos of the BB’s having children of their own.
Millennials don’t (largely) remember “land lines”.
Gen Z will witness enormous changes in our society; when they come into power (mid century) they’ll going to look at the exact turmoil we are currently in, and work hard to never have that happen again. How they go about achieving that goal will be interesting.

How in the world does this have anything to do with my statement, let alone the topic of this thread?

 

[Pommer]

How in the world does this have anything to do with my statement, let alone the topic of this thread?

I took her meaning to be different than the context suggests, yes.
Language is funny like that, having more than one meaning without more context, (like reading the entire thread!).
So sorry that I have wasted your time.
Carry on!

 

[RDKirk]

I do not support removing such checks; if anything, I want more -- at least as many as it takes to become a certified teacher. And I wish that that firearms license was as precarious as my teaching cert.... you'd be amazed how little it takes to get a teacher's credentials yanked.

If they wanted to make it "easier" for teachers to arm themselves, reducing the training was the cheap, stupid way.

The better way to make it "easier" would have been to give teachers $600 to buy a gun and $100 a month in scrip to spend in shooting at a range, plus however many hundred dollars it costs to send them to an annual tactical combat course.

 

[sandman]

But guns in the hands of untrained teachers are NOT going to be abused? Really?

In other words you think teachers can't be trained and are going to threaten the students with a gun.

 

[TLK Valentine]

If they wanted to make it "easier" for teachers to arm themselves, reducing the training was the cheap, stupid way.

...which makes it the unsurprising way, doesn't it?

The better way to make it "easier" would have been to give teachers $600 to buy a gun and $100 a month in scrip to spend in shooting at a range, plus however many hundred dollars it costs to send them to an annual tactical combat course.

...which is precisely what Mrs. McFeeney had in mind when she decided to teach the third grade...

The three Rs: Reading, 'Riting, and Reload.

 

[TLK Valentine]

In other words you think teachers can't be trained and are going to threaten the students with a gun.

Are we going to be immune from civil liability if we do?

Because I've had students threaten me before.

 

[TLK Valentine]

See my post #31

Indeed -- let's take a look.

With less training, there is a major question about how this changes the real legal and the public expectations of the role of an "armed teacher."

Teachers are government agents, as defined by the Supreme Court. An armed teacher is an armed government agent...not a private citizen.


Other armed government agents have very specific legal boundaries and public expectations in the use of their firearms. What are those boundaries and expectations for armed teachers?

Far more restrictive than those for any other government agents -- after all, not only are we now armed, but we deal almost exclusively with children.

...and they don't even trust us with certain books.

We know that a fistfight frequently turns into a gunfight when one person is armed...so do we expect armed teachers to intervene in hallway fistfights? What happens if the teacher intervenes and begins losing the fistfight...and possibly losing control of the firearm? That's how fistfights turn into gunfights.

Oh, that's easy -- student goes on a rampage; teacher gets legally, civilly, and morally blamed.

If there is a school shooting, whether a student with a pistol or a mass shooter armed to the teeth, do we expect the armed teacher to attack the assailant or do we expect the armed teacher to gather her own class to safety? And would it make a difference whether it was a student with a pistol or a mass shooter armed to the teeth?

Both, of course. They already expect teachers to be heroes -- now they will demand it.

Do we expect the armed teachers in a school to develop communications protocols and tactics among themselves so that they don't wind up shooting each other in an emergency? Will we hold them accountable for that? Will we hold them accountable for sufficient training?

Of course Mrs. McFeeney, in addition to teaching third grade math, is expected to be coordinated with her colleagues to be a well-disciplined SWAT team... Yes; we will be held accountable.

Will we hold them accountable for the deaths of any children? Will we use the rules for civilian self-defense shootings, or the rules for police shootings?

Of course we will be held accountable -- giving us guns has nothing to do with protection... It has everything to do with passing the buck.

44 Percent of GOP Voters View Mass Shootings as Part of Living in "Free Society"


School shootings are our problem now.

 

[Pommer]

...which makes it the unsurprising way, doesn't it?



...which is precisely what Mrs. McFeeney had in mind when she decided to teach the third grade...

The three Rs: Reading, 'Riting, and Reload.

I await the “oh look, teachers are wasting their ammo money on useless things like crayons” threads, because to fund the ammo budget they’ll cut “art supplies”.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I await the “oh look, teachers are wasting their ammo money on useless things like crayons” threads, because to fund the ammo budget they’ll cut “art supplies”.

I await the "Lock and Load Bake Sale" to pay the faculty firearm fund...

Wait, that's it: the bake sale sells bagels: "Lox and Load."

 

[LeafByNiggle]

In other words you think teachers can't be trained and are going to threaten the students with a gun.

Oh, teachers CAN be trained, but this new law says they don't have to bother. So they won't be.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Stopping the threat before they have a chance to breach the classrooms is a must.

Ignoring years & years of prior bullying and increasingly violent behavior, Salvador Ramos was not hiding his intentions

Anyone who read his Social Media posts at any point over the past year would have seen words like "shoot the school", "you'll see", "airing out".

If any of this had reached parents or other authorities, the tragedy could have been averted (as when a gamer recently stopped a copycat mass shooter in Casa Grande, AZ).

Perhaps parents could form online "neighborhood cyber watches" to keep track of web influences on their children?

 

[HARK!]

Hey, you know, priorities.

That's right...

Safety First!

 

[HARK!]

Not true. What is true is that the number of defensive uses of guns is estimated by various sources to range from 500,000 to 3 million annually.

If you doubt the objectivity of the site above, it’s worth pointing out that the Center for Disease Control, in a report ordered by President Obama in 2012 following the Sandy Hook Massacre, estimated that the number of crimes prevented by guns could be even higher—as many as 3 million annually, or some 8,200 every day.

Guns Prevent Thousands of Crimes Every Day, Research Shows | Lawrence W. Reed

Obama!

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

A person who is predisposed to losing his mind, over the behavior of a child, should not be left alone with children.

Everyone can lose their mind with kids. Anyone that wants to be in charged with kids. Might have a motive. Care givers can beat a child in minutes. A gun takes less time.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

It would appear that @CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN was speaking more along the lines of “we have to save the children from this satanic ritual abuse”, (which was “a thing” back in the late ‘80s to early ‘90s.)

Whatever children of this (or that generation) grows up with is their “normal”.
Baby boomers grew up with an American economic hegemony and expected that to continue while they cut taxes.
Gen Xer’s grew up in the chaos of the BB’s having children of their own.
Millennials don’t (largely) remember “land lines”.
Gen Z will witness enormous changes in our society; when they come into power (mid century) they’ll going to look at the exact turmoil we are currently in, and work hard to never have that happen again. How they go about achieving that goal will be interesting.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[HARK!]

Everyone can lose their mind with kids. Anyone that wants to be in charged with kids. Might have a motive. Care givers can beat a child in minutes. A gun takes less time.

First off, you don't speak for everyone, and certainly not for me.

Maybe we should ban chairs from schoolrooms. A chair could be pulled from beneath a six year old, and used to cave in his head, as quickly as if he were shot with a gun.

Better yet, let's keep unstable people away from our children.

Some teachers are already carrying guns; but they aren't shooting their students.