OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire

[Gregory Thompson]

Actually, the flood context has more to do with invading armies .

 

[brinny]

Hmm i guess that would depend if the great city were jerusalem .

if not then it would make the city limits of rome the lake of fire .

but if the beast is thrown into the lake of fire,

then how can the ten horns burn the great city riding on the beast?

because in one scene the city is burned by rulers

but in the scene where those rulers are devoured by birds and killed by the guy on the horsey and the sword coming out of his mouth well i guess dead guys cannot throw too far eh?

LOL horsey?

hee hee

 

[Gregory Thompson]

tee hee

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LOL horsey?
hee hee

tee hee

I wuv da horsies

Acts 6:4 and we to prayer, and to the ministration of the word, will give ourselves continually.' 5 And the thing was pleasing before all the multitude, and they did choose

Stephen/stefanon <4736> , a man full of faith and the Holy Spirit, Stephen = "crowned"
and Philip/filippon <5376> , Philip = "lover of horses"
and Prochorus/procoron <4402> , Prochorus = "leader of the chorus"
and Nicanor/nikanora <3527> , Nicanor = "conqueror"
and Timon/timwna <5096> , Timon = "honourable"
and Parmenas/parmenan <3937>, Parmenas = "abiding"
and Nicolaus/nikolaon <3532>, a proselyte of Antioch/antiocea <491>, Nicolas = "victor of the people"

 

[brinny]

I wuv da horsies

Acts 6:4 and we to prayer, and to the ministration of the word, will give ourselves continually.' 5 And the thing was pleasing before all the multitude, and they did choose

Stephen/stefanon <4736> , a man full of faith and the Holy Spirit, Stephen = "crowned"
and Philip/filippon <5376> , Philip = "lover of horses"
and Prochorus/procoron <4402> , Prochorus = "leader of the chorus"
and Nicanor/nikanora <3527> , Nicanor = "conqueror"
and Timon/timwna <5096> , Timon = "honourable"
and Parmenas/parmenan <3937>, Parmenas = "abiding"
and Nicolaus/nikolaon <3532>, a proselyte of Antioch/antiocea <491>, Nicolas = "victor of the people"

i knew dat

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Mee too .. hey this is now way off topic .. but if you transliterate the genealogy in matthew and luke and attribute the names to be a characteristic of Jesus .. one of them says Jesus snores .. that one cracked me up .

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I appreciate the forthrightness of these 3 posters who voted for this option

I had actually put that option in as an "afterthought"

That is an absurb and ridiculous view! 3

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I could use more votes on this topic......thanks

 

[brinny]

i voted amigo

still ponderin' how OC Jerusalem can be the Lake of Fire....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

i voted amigo

still ponderin' how OC Jerusalem can be the Lake of Fire....

That depends on ones view of that "Great City" in Revelation I suppose.

From the first time I read the Bible thru, I felt OC Jerusalem and its Temple/Sanctuary/Priesthood were the ones being symbolized in it. I still do to this day

Matthew 24:1 And coming-out, the Jesus, He went from the Temple, and toward-came the disciples of Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple

Luke 21:5 And certain saying about the Temple that to stones ideal and devoted-things/ana-qhmasin <334> it hath been adorned He said.......

DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City - Page 2 - Christian Forums
DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City

 

[brinny]

hmmmmmm....how can it be a Lake of Fire, now?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well, the great city is on the beast and gets torched by the ten horns .

then in another scene the beast gets thrown into the lake of fire .

i was curious what made them appear equivalent?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well, the great city is on the beast and gets torched by the ten horns .

then in another scene the beast gets thrown into the lake of fire .

i was curious what made them appear equivalent?

I do have a rather "unique" view of that.

Weren't the OC Judeans rulers in "bed" with the Romans?

John 11:48 "If-ever we may be be letting Him thus, all shall be believing in Him.
And shall be coming the Romans and they shall be taking away/arousin <142> (5692) of Us and the Place and the Nation" [Reve 6:6]

John 19:15 Those yet Cry-out "take-away! take-away! crucify! Him". Is saying to them the Pilate "the King of ye I shall be crucifying?".
Answered the Chief-priests "not we are having a King except Caesar/kaisara <2541>

Revelation 6:6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denari and three choinex of barleys a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring". [John 11:48]

1220. denarion day-nar'-ee-on of Latin origin; a denarius (or ten asses):--pence, penny(-worth).
AV - penny 9, pence 5, pennyworth 2; 16 denarius = "containing ten"

1) A Roman silver coin in NT time. It took its name from it being equal to ten "asses", a number after 217 B.C. increased to sixteen (about 3.898 grams or .1375 oz.).
It was the principal silver coin of the Roman empire. From the parable of the labourers in the vineyard, it would seem that a denarius was then the ordinary pay for a day's wages. (Mt. 20:2-13)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I do have a rather "unique" view of that.

Weren't the OC Judeans rulers in "bed" with the Romans?

John 11:48 "If-ever we may be be letting Him thus, all shall be believing in Him.
And shall be coming the Romans and they shall be taking away/arousin <142> (5692) of Us and the Place and the Nation" [Reve 6:6]

John 19:15 Those yet Cry-out "take-away! take-away! crucify! Him". Is saying to them the Pilate "the King of ye I shall be crucifying?".
Answered the Chief-priests "not we are having a King except Caesar/kaisara <2541>

Revelation 6:6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denari and three choinex of barleys a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring". [John 11:48]

1220. denarion day-nar'-ee-on of Latin origin; a denarius (or ten asses):--pence, penny(-worth).
AV - penny 9, pence 5, pennyworth 2; 16 denarius = "containing ten"

1) A Roman silver coin in NT time. It took its name from it being equal to ten "asses", a number after 217 B.C. increased to sixteen (about 3.898 grams or .1375 oz.).
It was the principal silver coin of the Roman empire. From the parable of the labourers in the vineyard, it would seem that a denarius was then the ordinary pay for a day's wages. (Mt. 20:2-13)

Hmm . Rome is built on seven hills . is a centre of trade . and filled with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus during Nero's and emperors after that's time but in the time of Paul Jerusalem was a place of this blood .wood was shipped into Judea do all the crucifixions .

so perhaps it is and perhaps it isn't .

I used to see Jerusalem the great city of the Old Covenant and Rome of the New . but things are a bit open at the moment .

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ahhh I forgot all about this thread!!!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I am surprised there aren't any no votes

 

[Sophia7]

I have always been rather fascinated with these verses in Revelation, especially Reve 19:3, in relation to the Olivet Discourse

Recently I have come to view that "great City" burning as possibly symbolizing the "lake of fire" and one reason is the fact that the smoke of that City is ascending into THE AGES OF THE AGES

So I would like to discuss this "theologically" and not as "eschatologically".

I would like to ask other fellow Christians here on CF/GT if it is possible, and even scriptural, that whatever City is being symbolized here, if it is possible it could also symbolize the "lake of fire"? Thoughts?

I voted option 1 since I [and a lot of other Christians] believe OC Jerusalem/Temple is shown in Revelation.

Reve 18:8 by this, in one day shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be being burned, that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her
[Luke 19:41,44/Reve 19:3]

Reve 19:3 And a second-time they have declared "allelouia and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".
[Reve 18:8]

DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City - Page 2 - Christian Forums
DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City

Interesting thoughts. We studied the book of Revelation recently in our Sunday School class, and the teacher interpreted most of the book from a preterist perspective. I disagree with that approach, but having come from a Seventh-day Adventist background, which teaches historicism, and no longer agreeing with many of the SDA interpretations, I find it interesting to discuss different viewpoints. There are some parts of Revelation that I currently have no idea how to interpret.

With that said, I don't believe that the "great city" of "Babylon" in Rev. 17-19 is symbolic of Jerusalem. There are several specific details that I don't think could apply to Jerusalem:

• She is drunk with the blood of the saints (17:6). The whole description seems to me to be that of a secular power persecuting the people of God.
• The seven mountains on which the woman sits are seven kings (17:9-13); one has not yet come, and an eighth king, the beast, has not yet come. (See comment on 17:18 below.)
• The "great city" rules over the kings of the earth (17:18). Jerusalem wasn't ruling over anyone at the time that Revelation was written or afterward; she was ruled by Rome.
• All nations have drunk of her immorality, and she has made the merchants of the earth rich through her sensuality (18:3). I don't see that Jerusalem had quite that much influence over the world.
• All the kings and merchants and shipmasters and sailors, who have profited from her immorality, mourn over her downfall (18:9-19). Who mourned for Jerusalem other than the Jews and probably some Christians? The destruction of Jerusalem wouldn't have caused that much mourning or financial hardship for anyone else.
• "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth" (18:24). The blood of some of the prophets and saints was shed in Jerusalem, but much of that was at the hands of Rome, and certainly the blood of "all who have been slain on the earth" could not be attributed to Jerusalem.

As far as the destruction of the city symbolizing the lake of fire, I wouldn't apply the lake of fire too literally to an historical city, but perhaps there is some foreshadowing. My opinion is that Revelation was written after the fall of Jerusalem and that its scope extends to the future, so I can't ignore the eschatological aspects that I see in it. There may be aspects that have already been fulfilled historically, by the destruction of either Jerusalem or Rome (and I would lean toward Rome), but there is still judgment yet to come, and I think that the historical allusions, including the symbol of Babylon, in these chapters point to that future "lake of fire" final judgment.

 

[brinny]

I believe the Lake of Fire is in the realm of the spirit. I do not believe it is associated with OC Jerusalem. I believe it's infinitely more spiritual than that. It has to do with evil and the evil realm we may not even see, the realm of satan and his minions, and the hold he has on this world, and all those that follow him. The lake of Fire is for "him", his minions, and those he has shackled with him when he is thrown into the Lake of fire.

I believe it is to come.

 

[Sophia7]

Another verse that I find interesting is in Reve 14:11.

While translating Reve from the greek texts some years back, I noticed a slight difference in wording of "ages and ages" in these 2 verses.

I noticed the article "the" is missing in Reve 14:11 [and trying to find out the significance of that]

[To tell the truth, I am making a speciall folder on this as this thread progresses ]Thoughts?

I believe this could symbolize the OC Priesthood, Pharisees, Sadducees etc.

Revelation 14:11 And the Smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.......... [Luke 16:24,26]

Textus Rec.) Revelation 14:11 kai o kapnoV tou basanismou autwn anabainei eiV aiwnaV aiwnwn........

Reve 19:3 And a second-time they have declared "allelouia and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".

Textus Rec.) Revelation 19:3 kai deuteron eirhkan allhlouia kai o kapnoV authV anabainei eiV touV aiwnaV twn aiwnwn

I'm not sure how that would symbolize the OC priests, etc. I see Rev. 14:9-12 as future. Those who worship the beast and his image will be tormented with fire and brimstone, and "the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever." I don't want to get into the issue of eternal torment vs. annihilation here, but either way I think this shows the permanence of God's final judgment on those who have rejected Him and turned to a false god.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'm not sure how that would symbolize the OC priests, etc. I see Rev. 14:9-12 as future. Those who worship the beast and his image will be tormented with fire and brimstone, and "the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever." I don't want to get into the issue of eternal torment vs. annihilation here, but either way I think this shows the permanence of God's final judgment on those who have rejected Him and turned to a false god.

Thank you for your response.
At least I haven't been called "anti-semetic" yet becuz of my view

Matt 26:64 Jesus Is saying to him "thou say, moreover I am saying to ye, from present/now ye shall be seeing the Son of the Man sitting out of rights of the power and coming upon the clouds of the heaven".
[Reve 1:7/6:16]

Romans 2:23 Who in law are boasting through the transgression of the Law, the God thou are dishonoring
24 'For the name of the God because of ye, is being blasphemed in the nations' according as it has been written.
[Psalm 74:10]

Reve 16:11 And they blaspheme the God of the heaven out of the miseries of them, and out of the sores of them, and not they reform out of the works of them