Obedience

[light upon light]

As a follow up to my last note to dlamberth,

If we can get the level of interfaith dialogue past the stumbling-block of feeling we need to convert others to our religions and understandings, and begin to share with one another in a spirit of love and respect and appreciation, we've solved the basic dilemma which has made religion so toxic to so many people.

 

[dlamberth]

I so much wish you would not give up the label "Christian" to describe yourself. Your understanding is indeed what Christ showed and taught about the Kingdom. The label "Christian" fits you aptly, most who call themselves that today are in fact operating at the Mosaic or even Abrahamic levels of consciousness. Not that those are bad - but the uniquely Christian understanding is that of seeing God in everything in the way that you do.

You are in a position to teach other Christians who are ready how to take flight into the mystic realms of the spirit, and calling yourself a Christian would help with that goal. You could also show how a Christian could love Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists and not think you have to convert them, or that they are misled by Satan, and destined to burn in hell.

I Thank You so very much for your kindness.

.

 

[Gibs]

Uh, and how exactly does this prove it?

It reminds me of a story in Rumi's Mathnavi. There was a sick man who called for a doctor. When the doctor came he asked "Are you a good physician?" The doctor answered, "I am the best" and proceeded to prove it by flying around the room.
Interesting, but not really relevant to being a good physician.

In any case, what could a third hand account of someone supposedly rising from the dead two thousand years ago possibly prove to me today? What proof would I have that it even happened?

It sure did happen as if it hadn't not one of us would be here today because if He had not won over Satan all of mankind would have been lost and also God would have lost His one and Only Begotten Son.

But He won and the fact of self resurrection proves without a shadow of doubt He is THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE!

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

1 Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[smaneck]

It sure did happen as if it hadn't not one of us would be here today

Evidence?

But He won and the fact of self resurrection proves without a shadow of doubt He is THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE!

Only if one accepts your unproven premise that we wouldn't be here today if Jesus had not risen from the dead.

Frankly, I can't see any connection between the two things.

People were here before Easter, they continued to be here after Easter.

As far as I can tell only one thing changed, after Easter the Church was here.

 

[Gibs]

Ya don't think God would have allowed sin to go on if His last resort to save men and then lose His Beloved Son to the penalty of sin as that was the contest and Satan was no doubt sure He could lure Christ to sin but He did not.

You need to know that Satan would not have tried if He knew he had no chance!

Well it is a sure thing, had Christ lost and succumbed to Satan God would have had to cleaned up the awful mess and it would have been speedily.

Jesus stated when it was all over, "the evil one hath nothing in me", we need to come that point also!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world

 

[gord44]

It sure did happen as if it hadn't not one of us would be here today because if He had not won over Satan all of mankind would have been lost and also God would have lost His one and Only Begotten Son.

Satan is G-d's servant, How could he have defeated G-d?

 

[Gibs]

Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[smaneck]

Ya don't think God would have allowed sin to go on if His last resort to save men and then lose His Beloved Son to the penalty of sin as that was the contest and Satan was no doubt sure He could lure Christ to sin but He did not.

I'm afraid the above doesn't make sense to me.

In any case, if God is Omnipotent there would be no question of a 'last resort.'

 

[Gibs]

Some don't believe that Satan had a chance of overcoming Jesus but the evidence is that it was possible as Satan surely knew that and yes I am sure this contest was the last chance for man, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world that man's redemption depended upon for His victory over the evil one.

1 Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[smaneck]

Some don't believe that Satan had a chance of overcoming Jesus but the evidence is that it was possible

Gibs, you keep talking about evidence but scriptural passages by themselves don't constitute evidence.

 

[dlamberth]

Gibs, you keep talking about evidence but scriptural passages by themselves don't constitute evidence.

As much as Gibs brings up Satan, I can't help but think that there is some undercurrent of worshiping going on there. With out images of Satan to bang against my guess is that he would be pretty lost with no meaning behind his beliefs.

.

 

[Gibs]

dlamberth, Satan and his angels is who we as Christians are in warfare against.

Re 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

1 Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[dlamberth]

dlamberth, Satan and his angels is who we as Christians are in warfare against.

I know. With out Satan you don't have a religion.

.

 

[smaneck]

dlamberth, Satan and his angels is who we as Christians are in warfare against.

Re 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Do you ride out on horses too?

 

[Gibs]

That thar is a special horse that Jesus rides on, one not conceived of men.

1 Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[smaneck]

That thar is a special horse that Jesus rides on, one not conceived of men.

Hmmm.

12 And his eyes are a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems; and he hath a name written which no one knoweth but he himself.

This is a description of the rider, not the horse.

The whole army is supposed to be on horseback.

Again, do you think you are going to fight the devil on horseback or might all of this have a different meaning?

 

[gord44]

As much as Gibs brings up Satan, I can't help but think that there is some undercurrent of worshiping going on there. With out images of Satan to bang against my guess that he would be pretty lost with no meaning behind his beliefs.

.

most likely. i think Satan is only an agent of G-d. As a servant of the Almighty, Satan faithfully carries out the divine will of his Creator as he does in all his tasks. It's only in the NT where you see him as this dualistic evil force which G-d somehow lost control of. The Christian doctrine on Satan has much in common with the pagan Zoroastrian Persian dualism from which it spawned, the Christian view seems completely alien to the teachings of the Jewish Scriptures.

 

[Gibs]

Re 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

The HIM is who I am referring to and nothing says HIS army is on horses!

1 Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[smaneck]

. The Christian doctrine on Satan has much in common with the pagan Zoroastrian Persian dualism from which it spawned, the Christian view seems completely alien to the teachings of the Jewish Scriptures.

I wouldn't call Zoroastrianism pagan. In fact I would argue it is the earliest form of ethical monotheism.

 

[smaneck]

Re 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

The HIM is who I am referring to and nothing says HIS army is on h

Actually it does. Read verse 14.