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NON CHRISTIANS

Lady Fatima

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I was just curious if it was similar to the line that christians have on polytheism that's all.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought I had made myself clear when using the verse.
Islam rejects ploytheism because it advocates the belief in more than one God which undermines the Islamic teaching of the one Supreme God.

I hope I have not offended anyone with my reply :)

I come in peace and leave in peace;)
 
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kenfish

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Hello, I am new here and I was drawn to your history of posting and I am intrigued and somewhat familiar with your path. Love to chat, I do not know my way around the site and will do my best to hold up my end. I am a Christian and I have history and experience. I am interested in your views on magic that you stated , I think ,in your first post, as those powers being from God and not necessarily from a created and fallen dark energy source but being existant and available to both Christian and non-Christian alike from an un-created source origin. Which I would take to mean God. Now do you allude to the power and creative energy that christianity refers to as Faith and the Word made flesh as In I -John? Or do you mean something pre-scriptural such as what was referred to in the sense of Romans 1? What is the place of spiritual discernment in this use of power to create or perhaps co-create? I am hoping that you address this question thoughtfully and with spiritual soberness as it is a serious one to me. Thank you.
 
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Mylinkay Asdara

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Kenfish, hello! Well, I'm going to try to answer your question as throughly and thoughtfully as possible, but first I'm going to have to go and find out what the verses you referenced say and what context they are in- give me a day or so to get my hands on a Bible and I will think out an answer for you. :) Patience is a virtue they say ;)

Welcome to CF and I hope you find your way around and meet some of the really good hearted people who are here.
 
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kenfish

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Thank you for your kind words. I meant pre-scriptual in the sense of before it was written down. Not pre-Genesis but pre-written down Genesis, or the oral living story before it was recorded for what it may hold as sacred (not taboo) for posterity as one of the five books of Moses.

Romans alludes to that time but also subjectively as that/a time in every life. I am excited about this!
 
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Havoc

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There is some truth to what you say, which makes me wonder why so many Fundies rail against the new translations as being Satanic and will only consider the flawed KJAV?

Given tht you are correct that most of the manuscripts we have are three or four hundred years after the fact... at best. The earleist manuscript we have is a small scrap of a small portion of the Gospel of John(?) dated at no earlier than 125CE (I believe). Three or four hundred years is a very long time for legends to evolve from ordinary to extraordinary.
 
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kenfish

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I do not know when the first Judaic Scriptures were written but I do think that the Dead Sea scrolls predate the printing press and.... They were in a long line that preceded them by several millennia.

There is much more historically correct ancient scriptural writing that has root lineage to original documents and there is a lot of history and legitimate historical cataloguing of these root scriptures.

I am sure that if you want them to be worthless to maintain your view of the nature of man as you see him than you will in fact create that reality and as such you can be as god and make the world in your image and likeness perhaps.

I do not know where all the pre printing press scriptures came form but I am reasonably sure they did not come from a pre chat room monk seminar where all the manuscripts were thrown up into the air and

History was formed in the chaos.

Perhaps it was this way.



I am looking to find out the non-Christian connection to the power of the 'named," holy spirit," that is being clamed by nature religion as benign and available to all as a gift of creating and altering reality from a spiritual matrix, not as you talk about a matter based non-creative alteration of what already exists or a transformation but rather something else that defies material definition yet still exists.

Now you may laugh, but when a being dies where is that essence which quickened it that is not measurable except perhaps to a feeling of awareness and where did it go? Where did it come from? I did not ask why? Just simple questions that are not emotional in definition. Define or tell me where being comes from and where it goes that and I will pretend to attempt to tell you where the scriptures came from.

If you can enlighten me as to the origins of your or perhaps any spirit if there is such a thing in your pantheon then perhaps you are wise and capable of explaining all that you so wonderfully exposed as nothing but perhaps a fraud, indeed. I will be in your debt.
 
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kenfish

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Well, do you mean that it would feel how it felt like before you were born in 1978? 77?
Something different than that?
You sound very angry.
Do you mean that you may have been angry before you were born?
Do you think that deviant is a word that might ever mean something unusual like;
The deviant bank robber gave all the money he stole to hospice care for poverty stricken aids patients in Africa and helped fund orphanages in Bangladesh?
What exactly is deviant?
Something unusual?
If that is the case all the greatest people on earth were deviant.
Not all of them believed in God (but many did) and that was not the root of their deviance.
It was in being themselves, unusual, out of the ordinary, special, they were unique.
They learned how to celebrate their deviance from the norm and use it to live empowered lives in freedom.
Perhaps being an unusual deviant is something that can be life enhancing and celebrated.
Practicing being a victim and looking for other peoples energy to fill you up or give you emotional "juice," is not being a deviant at all. Just a normal run of the mill "sorry for poor me," weinee whiner. A celebratory deviant of unique stature , now that is something valuable that I would doubt ever whines.
If you are going to be a deviant then have a little self-respect and perhaps a bit of class so that it is easier for us to respect you too.
I wish you well in all you do.
 
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Smilin

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Mylinkay Asdara said:
I think this is a healthy little thread. I'm so happy to return to it in it's origenal state rarther than all trashed out as I feared it might be.
As am I. Much can be learned from those of different faiths, cultures, and
traditional beliefs.

Congratulations Mylinkay! You seem to have accomplished what many
of us have tried in the past (and failed).

Okay, now let's move to the deeper question- what led you to the beliefs you currently hold?
That would require a novel. I'll try to highlight the turning points.
I'm half Cherokee from my Father's side, his Father and Mother were
full bloods. My Grandmother was a strict, literalist Christian, my Grandfather
rejected the religion. He was just that way. I was very young when
he passed over, so we never got the chance to talk. We grew up
in an isolated, strictly Christian community, so I had no choice
in the matter. I knew of our heritage, but discussing it was
out of the question. My Grandfather left two huge wooden chests,
stored in our garage. I was warned sternly never to open them.
Disease had robbed him of his site, and his ability to leave our
home. I knew his life's story was contained within those two huge
wooden chests, yet the penalty of being caught exploring them
was greater than my curiosity. And at that point, I never cared
for my Grandfather's past...why should I? My Grandfather passed
over that year, and again something was drawing me..to what
I did not know.


I grew up with a driving curiousity of nature, and questioned
everything. There were several turning points that first caused
me to question the faith I was raised in, to scrutinize it, and then
to finally reject it as truth. The first occasion occured when I was
around 12 I believe. The 'leader' of our faith made a public announcement
concerning his 'plans' for me. First I was shocked, then I became
filled with rebellion and anger. How dare someone choose my
spiritual path. To speek out would have meant a severe thrashing
when I got home, however the foundations of my new plans
began to be laid. Unfortunately this 'leader' was ostricized shortly
when it was discovered he had a drinking problem. I watched
in disbelief at how those who professed a religion of love drove
a man to his grave. His chosen replacement was even worse.
In one study session he had the audacity of speeking on the 'sin'
of mixed marriages. I could only sit silent, yet I'm sure my
unmoving, piercing eyes spoke without words for my feelings. For
I was a child of a mixed marriage, and this man was teaching
that I was an abomination. That was the final straw. My Father
flew into a rage when I defiantly claimed I'd never return with him.
He conceited when he realized nothing would change my mind. Not
the verbal lashings, not the physical thrashings, not the 'we're here
to save you sessions' by the other members. I was 15 and had drawn
a line in the sand. Of course I've excluded all the other 'nonsense'
I had been taught: Long hair on a male was sin (what of those
pictures of the white Jesus?), Dancing was a sin (what of those
Israelites that danced?) The faith I attended was the 'only' one
true faith, (what of those multitudes of other Christian faiths)?
The answers I received to these questions were unacceptable,
and many found it irritating that I could raise such questions.
Yet, I felt the answers were waiting to be found... I was being
drawn.


Fast forward two years. I found my escape. The military.
And more reasons to question Christianity. Eight years of
service, and I won't go into details for personal reasons. Lets
just say I witnessed many pray and scream out to the Christian
God, yet their God neither answered, helped nor saved them.
I became numb to religion. Yet, something watched over me,
guided me, and protected me. Too many events to be a coincidence.

Fast forward 9 years. I ended my career with the military
to pursue my new educational goals. My love of nature and science
was my new path, and those 'literal' teachings of the Bible kept
coming back into question. Creation in a 'literal' 7 days...
impossible, A global flood....impossible, The sun standing still
in the sky for the Israelites to continue one of their many wars..
impossible.... The Exodus... no scientific or recorded evidence...
All animals migrating to Adam to be named...impossible....
demons existing within men 2000 years ago, yet psychology
shows the true nature of the mind...more conflict. While pursuing
my degrees in Engineering and Math, my curiosity over the earlier
'teachings' that were still residing with me drove me to dive into
History, Psychology, Anatomy, Physiology, and Astronomy as
side subjects. I sought answers (and found them). Yet family
matters still tied me to a faith I could not embrace. I was never
so confused.

The influences of my Uncle (who was
a Father to me in Spirit) set me on my journey to explore my
heritage. I returned to my Father's house one weekend for
a visit. I was going to get answers. While noone was home,
I opened my Grandfather's chests. The memories of the
statements certain family members had made after his passing
came back to haunt me. The fact he had rejected Christianity
had condemned him to eternal torment. That was a traumatizing
thought. As I prowled through his life, I found many strange
things to me at that time... pictures, writings, artwork, handmade
tools. I began to realize what a great man he had been.

Something awoke within me...something strange and unknown.
I began a quest that continues until this day, and will continue.

I had open the door to discovery. That I was Tsalagi, that I
was the descendent of a peaceful people. That I was a
descendent of the Wolf clan. For several more years
I wandered, until my visit to Red Clay. The starting point
of The Trail of Tears where the Cherokee were driven
from Appalachia by presidential order of Andrew Jackson.
(may he rot in his Christian hell).

Several times during life crisis, I did attempt a return to
Christianity, to only be met with silence and confusion.

Only when I returned to the force the guided me, did
I find inner peace, happiness, and prosperity.

Now, I am guided by the traditions of the Tsalagi. The wolf
is my spirit and my power. I continue to explore and seek
out the ancient ways, which isn't easy. Most has been
polluted by the invasion of Christianity...

Yet I walk The Red Road...I seek out those like me, and
have found them, for we were scattered over a century
ago. The attempted genocide was a failure..

"Little did they know...we would survive...."
 
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SqueezetheShaman

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Oh smilin, thank you for such a wonderful post. I am so sorry to hear about what you have alluded to many times in your posts here, about the racism that is so unbelievably cruel that you and so many endure.

I just want to highlight a few sentences of yours.
Too many events to be a coincidence
now granted for the schizophrenic nutso, this can be hard to discern, but it is an important lesson nonetheless. :)
Only when I returned to the force the guided me, did
I find inner peace, happiness, and prosperity
oh preach it brothuh :) :) :)
 
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Tuzmin

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I am an atheist, pure and simple that is all I am. I believe that what happens after death is the same thing that happens before birth, that is to say in a word, "nothing". I believe that there is no god; I also believe that there is no way that anybody will ever prove or disprove the existance of god(s).

Science brought me to my conclusion, and the fact that the only form of "prayer" that I have ever seen work is meditation. Since meditation is purely done in the brain, and can be performed by anyone, whether they believe in the buddhist "god" or lack of god, I feel that meditation does not confirm the existence of god. (that made no sense)
 
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DCP 32° K.T

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Zoot said:
Believers,

Bibles aren't copies of copies of copies these days. They're translations of the oldest available manuscripts many of which date to the first four or five centuries of the Church. There's less telephone game in it than you might imagine.
We've only got it narrowed down to four readings in John 1:18 alone. Three of these are the oldest, although one of those is not yet proven. Two of them are believed to be the original by differing camps of scholars and textual critics who cannot yet agree. Is the Word the 'Only Begotten of God,' 'the Only Begotten God, 'the Only Begotten Son,' or 'the Only Begotten Son of God'? Is Jesus 'the beginning of the creation of God' or 'the beginning of the church of God' as is found in the oldest more or less complete manuscript or Revelation?

I suppose it also depends upon which translation one uses as well, if one uses a translation. But, then, even the Greek text of the new Testament itself is translation literature, translated from older Aramaic texts in places. Some, like the King James Bible, are really translations of translations of a translation of the original. In other cases, the translations do not follow the ancient texts closely enough. Sometimes, literal translation is the most misleading translation technique of all because it leaves no room for the cultural baggage necessary for proper understanding. For instance, it is the difference between a noun and a noun that functions like an adjective. If the English renders as a noun what the ancients understood to function as a quasi-adjective, the translation becomes misleading, especially if theology is founded upon that faulty understanding. At other times, the translators tend to follow commentaries rather than the ancient underlying texts or the translators force their own agreed upon theology onto the ancients texts when considered difficult (ala the Living Bible). And, so it goes...
 
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Mylinkay Asdara

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Kenfish- after having checked out some verses and spoken with my boyfriend's mom (she's a sunday school teacher for the local Lutheran church) I would have to say that our concept of magic would be very different from what the bible considers it to be in many ways, and yet some of the things we do (divination in the main) are expressed in the bible both in a forbidden and 'okay because it came through the Holy Spirit' context. This would lead me to say that it would be more of a pre-Genesis thing we'd be talking about. I'm going to check a few more sources before I completely commit to this answer, but for now I wanted to keep the conversation rolling so that's what I have at the moment. Hopefully more light will be shed upon this issue before my next post here.

Everyone else: awesome- just awesome. Thanks so much to everyone who is sharing here and thanks to those who will continue to share :) I'm so thrilled with this thread you just have no idea. *happy happy*
Smilin- I'd love to hear about the medicine wheel as well, but if you feel uncomfortable sharing specifics of your faith I totally understand, we all have the Mysteries to guard and somethings ought not to be expressed via a computer screen.

I'll get my story on here when I'm not at work (it takes a lot of time to type) I hope everyone had a good weekend Thankgiving or not depending on where everyone lives and what they celebrate (personally thankgiving would be celebrated by myself if I didn't have all this family that insisted on eating together which is kinda nice, but... the origen of the holiday disturbs me just a bit)
 
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