Non-Christians: What would you have done?

[dlamberth]

I think the thread kind of ran its course anyways.

But it's going in interesting directions.

.

 

[gord44]

But it's going in interesting directions.

.

Yeah. That's what I meant.

 

[lupusFati]

Are you feeling Ok your on a role.

I have no idea what you just said to me.

Also I'm gone for an hour or two and you kids blow up the forum.

So. Much. Fun.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

You've contradicted yourself, bolded as above then provided the following statement.

No contradiction, you are failing at reading my quote as you are at understanding scripture. You stated "doctrine is scriptural"; I corrected your misunderstanding of the English language, by the following statement, that I also ended with agreeing with you that a new religion is made by the doctrine that was made.

"Doctrine does not have to be scripture specific, as any Dictionary will state. A new religion is exactly what they have created by stating there is more then one way to God."

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. (John 14:6, 7 KJV)

No very relevant to the debate; considering its not my authority that corrects you but that of the words of the God you believe there are MANY ways to come to Him.

God provided the word and you apply your 'seeing' of it and your understanding. That's what I've said all along, your outlook is a reflection of yourself.

Actually it should be a reflection of Christ in me, and how His spirit has explained His truth to me. My human eyes only read it, so as seen and understood are a joint effort. Wether you can hear the truth is up to God wether it falls upon deaf ears or not.

I don't waver from that in the slightest, I just 'see it' differently to you and understand it differently.

Why is that? Because you exercise your own beliefs outside of the Living Word of God? If you want to correct my understanding quote the word of God and use its AUTHORITY, rather then your own.


God Bless.

:wave

 

[gord44]

Toolmanjantzi. Why are you asking non-Christians to explain their beliefs using the Christian holy book? That's like a Muslim asking you to back up your Christian beliefs using the Qua'ran.

 

[lupusFati]

Toolmanjantzi. Why are you asking non-Christians to explain their beliefs using the Christian holy book? That's like a Muslim asking you to back up your Christian beliefs using the Qua'ran.

It's actually like using Chrono Trigger to explain how time works.

It doesn't.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

No contradiction, you are failing at reading my quote as you are at understanding scripture. You stated "doctrine is scriptural"; I corrected your misunderstanding of the English language, by the following statement, that I also ended with agreeing with you that a new religion is made by the doctrine that was made.

"Doctrine does not have to be scripture specific, as any Dictionary will state. A new religion is exactly what they have created by stating there is more then one way to God."

But I disagree with you. Doctrine does have to be scripture specific in relation to God, which as stated previously is relevant to the church. The church is where the doctrine comes from, and that is the basis of religion, meaning the church decides the doctrine based on its understandings and teaches that. You contradicted yourself because you said that's what dlambeth had done and yet he didn't use scripture in his words, so you can't accuse him of that.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. (John 14:6, 7 KJV)

No very relevant to the debate; considering its not my authority that corrects you but that of the words of the God you believe there are MANY ways to come to Him.

That isn't the passage that I said wasn't relevant.

Actually it should be a reflection of Christ in me, and how His spirit has explained His truth to me. My human eyes only read it, so as seen and understood are a joint effort. Wether you can hear the truth is up to God wether it falls upon deaf ears or not.

Yes it should be.

Why is that? Because you exercise your own beliefs outside of the Living Word of God? If you want to correct my understanding quote the word of God and use its AUTHORITY, rather then your own.

Well actually you didn't give me your understanding of it. You said there is only one way to God and placed some scripture there. Why did you align that verse with your statement.

 

[lupusFati]

I guess it's time for toolman to ignore me then.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

Toolmanjantzi. Why are you asking non-Christians to explain their beliefs using the Christian holy book? That's like a Muslim asking you to back up your Christian beliefs using the Qua'ran.

They say they're christians. You know and I know, they are a seed that has no soil, a tree with no fruit, a house with no foundation, but do they know that?

 

[toolmanjantzi]

But I disagree with you. Doctrine does have to be scripture specific in relation to God, which as stated previously is relevant to the church. The church is where the doctrine comes from, and that is the basis of religion, meaning the church decides the doctrine based on its understandings and teaches that. You contradicted yourself because you said that's what dlambeth had done and yet he didn't use scripture in his words, so you can't accuse him of that.

That isn't the passage that I said wasn't relevant.

Yes it should be.

Well actually you didn't give me your understanding of it. You said there is only one way to God and placed some scripture there. Why did you align that verse with your statement.

Align? Do you use words like Enlighten, Mantle and Community.

I gave the verse because my words mean nothing; Gods words are everything.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

I guess it's time for toolman to ignore me then.

I'm not ignoring you. I've been working on afternoons. I throw a letter once and a while on my breaks. I am very impressed by your answers. Actually you made me laugh, a few times.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

Align? Do you use words like Enlighten, Mantle and Community.

I gave the verse because my words mean nothing; Gods words are everything.

No your words were that there was only one way to God. Then you posted some scripture and I asked you why you aligned (dictionary.com, 'to ally (oneself,for example) with one side of an argument or cause) your words with that particular verse. To state its the word of God gives no explanation. If you were teaching your child the relevance of that verse what would you tell them?

 

[toolmanjantzi]

No your words were that there was only one way to God. Then you posted some scripture and I asked you why you aligned (dictionary.com, 'to ally (oneself,for example) with one side of an argument or cause) your words with that particular verse. To state its the word of God gives no explanation. If you were teaching your child the relevance of that verse what would you tell them?

No one gets to God without the Son. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

No one gets to God without the Son. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

And what 'way' did Jesus teach? What 'truth' lies behind that way? This 'getting' how will one know when it is Got?

You will find the 'way' is synonymous with life, with being fully human and embracing the attributes God gave us at birth, our conscience and intuition, these are not defined to any one faith but they are seldom acknowledged. Prayer and meditation expand or give 'voice' to these subtle attributes allowing greater guidance in life.

 

[dlamberth]

You know and I know, they are a seed that has no soil,

Love... I can't think of any healther soil when growing the seeds of Compassion and Service to Others than "Love".

a tree with no fruit,..

Helping those in need has a way of producing fruit with overflowing abundance.

a house with no foundation,

I'm unable to think of a better foundation when being of service to those in need than Love and Compassion.

but do they know that?

.

 

[dlamberth]

No one gets to God without the Son. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

One thing I see in the Mystics that I find attractive is that they don't stop at Jesus. They go right on through Jesus and on to God. And in God they rest.

So I wonder why most people stop on the second half (the Son) of Toolman's comment and don't even think about moving on to the first part.

.

 

[lupusFati]

One thing I see in the Mystics that I find attractive is that they don't stop at Jesus. They go right on through Jesus and on to God. And in God they rest.

So I wonder why most people stop on the second half (the Son) of Toolman's comment and don't even think about moving on to the first part.

.

And once again I find myself arguing for the Christians rather than against. However, I guess someone has to do it, so here goes:

They believe Jesus was both, at once, fully man and fully God. So it's not that they stopped at a lesser tier; Jesus is God. According to their Bible anyway.

I think I'm going to stop arguing for Christians, that left a bad taste in my mouth and activated a slight bit of cognitive dissonance.

 

[dlamberth]

And once again I find myself arguing for the Christians rather than against. However, I guess someone has to do it, so here goes:

They believe Jesus was both, at once, fully man and fully God. So it's not that they stopped at a lesser tier; Jesus is God. According to their Bible anyway.

I think I'm going to stop arguing for Christians, that left a bad taste in my mouth and activated a slight bit of cognitive dissonance.

As you take the stand for Christians, I know your argument. I've heard it often. But I keep coming back to knowing that spiritually there is a much deeper depth of unity with God that's possible than when one goes no further than "believing" Jesus is such and such.

I think those with a little bit of gnostic (little g) perspective might find it easer to understand.

.

 

[LoAmmi]

I guess it's time for toolman to ignore me then.

I'm still waiting to see what he has to say about the Hebrew I posted.

 

[BruceDLimber]

You believe there are many ways to GOD?

Quite so.

Far be it from me to try to limit God or the paths to Him that He allows!

Peace,

Bruce