• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Non-Biblical Practices done by Catholic believers

Status
Not open for further replies.

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟109,492.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think you mean clergy there.

Not really true. Eastern Catholic clergy are allowed to be married. And even in the Roman Rite, Anglican Use priests who were married prior to their conversion can still be ordained as Catholic priests.

The relevance of that to the modern world is shaky at best. The recruiting pool from which the Early Church had to work was made up mostly of married men. Pointing to that model as being exemplary of anything is intellectually dishonest.

Further, it ignores the reasons why clerical celibacy ever came about in the first place.

It says no such thing.
Wow,here we have perfect example of how to Not answer the question, ignore the facts.And lie.
No offence its just fact
Quote-" A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; ...."
 
Upvote 0

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟109,492.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I do. That Scripture means that IF a man is married, he can only be married to one woman (not polygamous), and he cannot be divorced and remarried. It does not say that he has to be married.

And even if it did, Paul is inferior to Jesus, and Jesus said that some men make themselves "eunuchs" for God - giving up all sexual relations. Jesus trumps Paul, so that's that.
Some..make themselves.. it is never imposed upon them. Its a non biblical rule.
And that is the point of the Op.
 
Upvote 0

TuxAme

Quis ut Deus?
Site Supporter
Dec 16, 2017
2,421
3,264
Ohio
✟214,197.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
I am sorry my friend, but when the scriptures say the husband of one wife, that clearly says MARRIED.

Yes, many men had more that one wife and the verse is used to say NO POLOIGAMY!
However, even then the words clearly say "Husband of one wife".
There was absolutely no mandate for a bishop to marry, only that- if he had been married, it be only once. It's simple. Why would Paul- the same Paul who said, I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided, suddenly mandate that a bishop, of all people, marry? Your interpretation is at odds with Paul's own words.
 
Upvote 0

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟109,492.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There was absolutely no mandate for a bishop to marry, only that- if he had been married, it be only once. It's simple. Why would Paul- the same Paul who said, I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided, suddenly mandate that a bishop, of all people, marry? Your interpretation is at odds with Paul's own words.
it plainly states they are to be a married man ..mentions household,family,children. Its so plain .no need to twist it.
But to forbid they be married..this has NO scriptural basis.
 
Upvote 0

Not David

Antiochian Orthodox
Apr 6, 2018
7,393
5,278
26
USA
✟243,137.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
it plainly states they are to be a married man ..mentions household,family,children. Its so plain .no need to twist it.
But to forbid they be married..this has NO scriptural basis.
It doesn't say they cannot be single. ;)
 
Upvote 0

Monk Brendan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2016
4,636
2,875
74
Phoenix, Arizona
Visit site
✟339,430.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Good question.

Look at how many law suits and broken lives could have been spared if the clergy was allowed to marry.
If you are referring to the recent pedophilia scandal, most male pedophiles are married.

In my own city, just today, a protestant pastor was arraigned on charges of pedophilia.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,521
20,803
Orlando, Florida
✟1,521,019.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Incidentally also, the OP speaks of the challenge as being about PRACTICES, not doctrines.

That assumes a regulative principle in worship and practice, which is not necessarily a given approach to understanding the Bible among all Protestants.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Monk Brendan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2016
4,636
2,875
74
Phoenix, Arizona
Visit site
✟339,430.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I think a distinction needs to be made here for clarity's sake.

While the Eastern Catholic and Orthodox churches ordain married men as deacons and priests, they must be married BEFORE ordination.

Should the wife die, the clergyman man not remarry without being deposed. (I know of some cases this has happened.)

As a Pentecostal preacher said, "if God calls you when you're single, plan on staying singe. If He calls you when you're married, plan on staying married.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Not David
Upvote 0

StephenDiscipleofYHWH

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2018
1,483
378
30
Ransom county
✟84,666.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Apostolic
Marital Status
Single
1. The verse in question doesn't necessarily mandate marriage. It only says "of one wife", which could also suggest that a bishop may be married only once. In other words, he cannot remarry.

It would seem that we actually retained this pretty strictly as, while most priests cannot have wives, exceptions are made (typically for converts), but such a priest cannot remarry if his wife dies before him (unless there are children involved, in which case a remarriage may be allowed for their sake).

Regardless, it falls in the realm of practices and can be changed.

2. Jesus also said to call no man teacher, yet instructs the apostles to teach just prior to His Ascension. He was using hyperbole, as evidenced by the fact that the apostles referred to themselves as fathers (unless you would call them deceivers, that is).
2. The word used(patér) by the Apostles(in reference to themselves) could also mean:
3962. patér
ancestor, elder, senior.

It is very possible that the Apostles were calling themselves elders or seniors to those who were still children(spiritually speaking). Some were not even yet as adults(able to eat meat) but were still as babes in need of milk.
Hebrews 5:11-14
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

1 Peter 2:1-2
1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Where as in verses like:
Hebrews 12:9-10
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

The Apostles(in this case Paul) are referring first to our ancestors(parents in this verse) of the Flesh and then to our Heavenly father, who is Father of Spirits. So at times the Apostles are using it in the sense of our ancestors, in other verses elders/Seniors, and in others still the sense of the Heavenly Father.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

StephenDiscipleofYHWH

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2018
1,483
378
30
Ransom county
✟84,666.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Apostolic
Marital Status
Single
I am sorry my friend, but when the scriptures say the husband of one wife, that clearly says MARRIED.

Yes, many men had more that one wife and the verse is used to say NO POLOIGAMY!
However, even then the words clearly say "Husband of one wife".

2.
The context Jesus was in was that the Jews, scribes and Pharisees used the name of Rabbi and FATHER.

Jesus said, “call no man on Earth your Father,” (Matt. 23: 19), yet St. Paul says, “I became your father through the Gospel” (1 Cor. 4:15). St. Paul warns earlier in that epistle, though, that there is no Paul or Apollos, only Christ (1 Cor. 1:12-13).
And this is the key that ties it all together.

Christ warns us not to call any man our father so as not to create an alternative to God, a figure to draw us away from God. If we are a Christian but also a Marxist, we find Marx and Christ pulling us in different directions. But to be a follower of St. Paul is to be a follower of Christ. Paul’s fatherhood draws you in to the One Divine Father.
And from those same notes, “God is jealous of Baal, not Moses; of Mammon, not Peter. God’s jealousy is of anything which draws us away from Him.

Christ denounced the Pharisees for creating a separate set of allegiances, obedience to a rabbinical tradition that interfered with their ability to follow the Ten Commandments (Mark 7:9-13). In Catholicism, there is no separate allegiance.
1. Paul said it is better not marry, that he believes it is better for a person to remain unmarried(even as he is).
1 Cor 7:6-9
6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

A man can be married to the Church(or rather married to God/Christ) being married in the spirit, as well as being married to a woman in the flesh.
Romans 7:4
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Ephesians 5:25-32
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

So when a man desires the office of bishop he must meet all the requirements befitting a man of that office. So one man may be married to the Church with no wife(in the biological/traditional sense) and another man may be married to a flesh and blood woman(being married in the flesh) but in the spirit married to the Church/Christ. But both men are eligible for the office of bishop, just as Paul(who was unmarried) was able to be an Apostle. One is married body and spirit to the Church minding only the things of God(As Paul did) and the other is married in the spirit to the Church but in the body/flesh to his wife of flesh, the former is better than the latter because he only cares for the things of Lord and doing that which pleases him.
1 timothy 3
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

1 Cor 7:32-35
32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.
34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
35 And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

Though I do agree that it is wrong for a person to forbid another to marry as Paul warned us people would come teaching these things contrary to the doctrine he has delivered unto us.

1 Timothy 4:1-5
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

God bless you brother.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Not David
Upvote 0

Desiree Johnston

New Member
Sep 20, 2018
3
0
38
Tasmania
✟22,803.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Yes Catholics do pray to statues of Christ, Mary etc. Yes we're hearing stories here in Australia of sexual child abuse from the Catholic leaders with which they admit they knew and kept covered up. But the thing is it can also happen by some of us christians too. Somewhere through out history some of us both Christian and Catholic leaders said "Hey let's hurt innocent children let's worship idols of Christ, lets point the finger at those from non faiths and other faiths instead of sharing our own sins first with others. In other words let's just use Christ to protect us from the wrong we've done. We have to look deep below the surface first before we actually seek the surface
 
Upvote 0

Lost4words

Jesus I Trust In You
Site Supporter
May 19, 2018
11,790
12,515
Neath, Wales, UK
✟1,236,995.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Catholic don't pray 'to' any statue. Anybody who knows the Catholic faith 'properly' knows this. You are judging by your eyes when you know not the heart of the person praying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Not David
Upvote 0

Darren Court

Active Member
Sep 22, 2016
395
77
57
UK
✟19,802.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It's not clear if you want the thread to be focused on PRACTICES or DOCTRINE.

Clearly they are inter-related but they are not the same.

There are many practices in the Catholic such as burning incense, forumalaic prayer and worship, robes, confessional box, etc.

It's a simple fact that these things are not in the bible!

..but I think to try to simplistically argue if something's not in the bible then it's not right because the bible doesn't cover so many things.... so if we want to be ridiculous the bible doesn't say we can or cannot shake hands!

The question for me, therefore, are any of the practices of the Catholic Church based on false beliefs that are contrary to the bible?

My answer would be YES absolutely!

Take the biggest one! The Eucharist!

Catholics argue that the juice and waffer litrerally become the body and blood of our Saviour on the basis that they take Christ's words LITERALLY. Protestants argue these things were never meant to be literal but are symbolic. Catholicism seems to have a fair point but they don't! You see, they actually defeat their own argument when you ask why does the juice still look like juice and taste like juice and the waffer still look like a waffer and taste like a waffer? I've tried the before juice and waffer and the after juice and waffer... trust me for all possible human measures they are the same! But Catholics have an answer to this.... because they don't change physically because they change spiritually. Christ is not LITERALLY there in blood and body but spiritually. Did you see how they defeated their own argument? The reason.... they argued that the bible must be understood LITERALLY when it comes to the blood and body and then proceeded to say the juice and waffer aren't LITERALLY the blood and body.

For me this means that Catholic of Eucharist is deeply flawed. They are partaking in a ceremony with an understanding that is fundamentally wrong... and more than that.... the Catholic Church goes one further by inferring if Catholics don't partake of the Catholic sacrements (principle of which is the Eucharist) then salvation is at stake...and this to is CONTRARY to scripture.

Other things the Catholic teaches that are flawed...

Apostolic Succession because they teach contrary to the apostles! So for example Jesus believed and taught LITERAL six day creation as did His disciples... yet the Catholic Church has NEVER incorporated this doctrine "officially" and most Catholics today seem to believe in theistic evolution!

Church will be united because they claim Christ's prayer has to be fulfilled and despite the fact that the ONLY church shown in the bible is not united in the way Catholics claim.

Only the Catholic Church has salvation... OK they've softened on this one but for the vast part of history the Catholic Church taught if you weren't Catholic you were off to hell... but even today they are confused! The Catholic Church cannot say officially if men like Wigglesworth, Wesley, Spurgeon, etc were sent by God or not. This is because it's stupid to deny the power of God on such men's lives but then that's a problem when they weren't Catholic.

Forgivenss of sins... is another area of confusion for the Catholic. They use biblical texts to argue that we can forgive and not forgive sins that they apply only to the Catholic priesthood, but then accept only God can forgive. If they were acting with God's direction to forgive and not forgive then two things would be absolutely plain... 1)They would never get it wrong - ie. forgive someone who wasn't repentant. Does God make mistakes?
2) They would be pronouncing not forgiven too... and they never do that!

Prayer to the Saints... Catholics argument for this is curiously based on the lack of condemnation in the bible.. .ie. God didn't say we can't! Irrespective, Catholics cannot answer if by Praying to the Saints we increase our chances of getting a prayer answered? This is because the Catholic Church has no official position on this and is, for me, clear evidence that the Catholic Church does not understand prayer. The vast majority of Catholics seem to believe prayer is about changing God.

Then there's purgatory, indulgences, infallibility of the Pope, etc.
 
Upvote 0

Desiree Johnston

New Member
Sep 20, 2018
3
0
38
Tasmania
✟22,803.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Ah right....Ok so obviously when some catholics and Christians have statues of Jesus and Mary in their churches and those of us whether a church leader or church attendee kneel in a Pew then they're not praying to statues. Right well if I'm blind then you're obviously blind too mate. What goes round comes right back round back mate. Have a nice day
 
Upvote 0

Lost4words

Jesus I Trust In You
Site Supporter
May 19, 2018
11,790
12,515
Neath, Wales, UK
✟1,236,995.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
John 6:53
53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;...............

66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. 67 Jesus said to the twelve, “Will you also go away?” 68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life;

Jesus was speaking the truth. They took Him literally.

Today, the Eucharist becomes the Body and Blood of Jesus.

Look up Transubstantiation
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Not David
Upvote 0

Lost4words

Jesus I Trust In You
Site Supporter
May 19, 2018
11,790
12,515
Neath, Wales, UK
✟1,236,995.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Ah right....Ok so obviously when some catholics and Christians have statues of Jesus and Mary in their churches and those of us whether a church leader or church attendee kneel in a Pew then they're not praying to statues. Right well if I'm blind then you're obviously blind too mate. What goes round comes right back round back mate. Have a nice day

When you kneel in a pew and open your Bible are you worshipping the Bible?

You don't know Catholicism.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Not David
Upvote 0

dannheim

Honey Badger
Oct 10, 2014
176
107
Rancho Mirage CA
✟30,670.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
The 1.3 billion those who call themselves Catholics out of tradition , or guilt really need at this time to question the church if it really is in alignment with the teachings of Jesus Christ .No one can serve two masters Matt 6:24 It would be better for him (or institution ) if a milestone were hung around his neck and thrown into the sea than to cause one of these little ones to stumble Luke 17:2 2/3 of the world lives in poverty less than 2 dollars a day millions of children dying from starvation a lot of them Catholic while the church has assets of 200 billion dollars . Some Clergy live in multi million dollar mansions like kings , have art works , gold everything . " Feed my sheep ! " John 21:17
Mathew 25:41-46 what have you done personally for the stranger, hungry,naked, the sick that are NOT members of your congregation?
 
Upvote 0

wandererUK

Newbie
Sep 16, 2013
28
10
✟17,045.00
Faith
Christian
#3. Veneration of body parts of saints (bone fragments and such).

#4. Praying to saints.

Yeh. Members of the public were being invited into the Catholic Church in the City one Christmas. I walked past on my way home from work and took up the invite. Nice folk. Nice church. Nice choral music playing etc.

Aside from the massive image of Mary that confronted me when I walked in, I wandered why all the venerations took place. I can't see anywhere in the bible where Mary worship is proclaimed (apart from all generations calling her blessed). Nor praying to the patron saint of this or that. Nor iconography or objects although many would argue the cross is an icon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Phil 1:21
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.